Yank Prater Now. Dump Alpa

[Jonny Sacko]

Majority of pilots voted, and were polled about age 60 changes. The MAJORITY voted and polled stated they wanted it to STAY THE SAME.. ALL FOR ME Prater ignored this and actually toted the Mica bill as a GOOD THING.


YANK PRATER; DUMP ALPA.

 

[flygirlqt]

I agree. This reeks of politics and is nothing more than allowing these senior approaching age 60 National officers 5 more years to suck up our dues with their grotesque salaries.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Ya know I was never a big anti ALPA guy but this really changed my mind. It appears ALPA did have a big influence on keeping this thing alive despite what they said. And it went against what the membership wanted. ALPA is starting to appear more and more of a road block to getting better contracts and work rules then the group leading the charge. I am just disgusted.

 

[HalinTexas]

I probably will need to work until 65. Hadn't planned on it until the fall of '04.

But I've been saying for quite a while: ALPA is all about Herndon. It's about dues, not service to it's membership.

Dumping ALPA won't change the law though.

 

[DashTrash400]

I'm pro-union and have thus far been pro-ALPA even while a member of another union, but this really sticks in my craw. One of ALPA's strengths throughout the years is that it's been one of the most democratic unions out there. My problem here is that not only does it go against the wishes of the majority of the membership, but ALPA leadership (ie Prater) seems to have been less than truthful about ALPA's role in all this until the vote was over. Furthermore, this is a distraction that can only divide us and alienate a large part of the membership when we really need everyone on board and concentrating on "taking it back," to use Prater's now-ironic turn of phrase.

 

[sleeves]

None of you guys will do anything except cry on this board. The older guys know how to get things done. When ALPA was against age 65 they formed their own groups and bought lobbyist. Then they took over ALPA. What the young guys have to figure out is nobody is going to do it for you. Typing posts on flight info does nothing. Writing letters to your congressmen does about the same. The old guys just showed how the minority, when motivated, can control the outcome.

Get involved. Paying dues is not enough.

 

[DashTrash400]

I'm on an ALPA committee, didn't realize I should've instead been devoting my time to taking over ALPA for my own personal purposes. Whoops, my bad.

 

[sleeves]

I'm on an ALPA committee, didn't realize I should've instead been devoting my time to taking over ALPA for my own personal purposes. Whoops, my bad.

Didn't say you should. What I said is that the +60 crowd did.

Being on a committee puts you in a small minority (thanks for your time). What committee are you on?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Majority of pilots voted, and were polled about age 60 changes. The MAJORITY voted and polled stated they wanted it to STAY THE SAME.. ALL FOR ME Prater ignored this and actually toted the Mica bill as a GOOD THING.


YANK PRATER; DUMP ALPA.

WRONG. (insert game show LOSER buzzer)

I agree. This reeks of politics and is nothing more than allowing these senior approaching age 60 National officers 5 more years to suck up our dues with their grotesque salaries.

(audeince laughing so hard. Jay Leno thinks... get her for "jaywalking"). Buzzer operator finally stops laughing and hits the LOSER buzzer...

Ya know I was never a big anti ALPA guy but this really changed my mind. It appears ALPA did have a big influence on keeping this thing alive despite what they said. And it went against what the membership wanted. ALPA is starting to appear more and more of a road block to getting better contracts and work rules then the group leading the charge. I am just disgusted.

[wrong buzzer.....) Alec Trebac is shaking his head!

I probably will need to work until 65. Hadn't planned on it until the fall of '04.

But I've been saying for quite a while: ALPA is all about Herndon. It's about dues, not service to it's membership.

Dumping ALPA won't change the law though.

judges? partial credit!!

I'm pro-union and have thus far been pro-ALPA even while a member of another union, but this really sticks in my craw. One of ALPA's strengths throughout the years is that it's been one of the most democratic unions out there. My problem here is that not only does it go against the wishes of the majority of the membership, but ALPA leadership (ie Prater) seems to have been less than truthful about ALPA's role in all this until the vote was over. Furthermore, this is a distraction that can only divide us and alienate a large part of the membership when we really need everyone on board and concentrating on "taking it back," to use Prater's now-ironic turn of phrase.

Judges? (wrong buzzer)! attractive answer but there never was a majority... its not ALPA hasn't been truthful... its just the members don't bother to know the truth...

None of you guys will do anything except cry on this board. The older guys know how to get things done. When ALPA was against age 65 they formed their own groups and bought lobbyist. Then they took over ALPA. What the young guys have to figure out is nobody is going to do it for you. Typing posts on flight info does nothing. Writing letters to your congressmen does about the same. The old guys just showed how the minority, when motivated, can control the outcome.

Get involved. Paying dues is not enough.

WINNER!! bells whistles, ballons streamers!

Johnny...tell him what he's won.

(in announcer voice). He's won reality. And in this current world.. that's a good thing....


Nothing's changed... to segway off the last quote...

From Flying the Line, Vol. 1, page 227:
​

Inevitably, a new generation arrived made up of pilots less steeped in the past struggles and more content about the professional status ALPA had created for them. The new generation was also increasingly indifferent to ALPA and its administration. Pioneer pilots, by and large, paid close attention to ALPA affairs, and they couldn’t understand the lackadaisical attitude of the younger pilots, partically when it came to governance at the local level. By the late 1950s, many pilots simply took for granted that somebody else would do the hard work needed to sustain ALPA. While complacent pilots golfed or pursued second careers, a minority ran ALPA’s local affairs on each airline.
​

Although most of these individuals were dedicated to making ALPA work, on some airlines a few pilots used ALPA as a gimmick for personal aggrandizement. The indifference of the rank and file and the poor attendance at local council meetings meant that a minority on any airline could, with proper planning, seize control and eventually dominate the master executive council (MEC) itself. The danger was that a well-organized clique could speak for an indifferent majority of pilots.
​

​

 

[BeCareful!]

Fuc% You, Rez!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[filejw]

Guys everybody in a leadership roll of any organization has to make decisions based on the info before him her. Personally I think Prater could just see the writing on the wall and wanted to be on the winning side and have an influence . Remember pilots/old guys have been pushing this age 65 thing for 25 plus yrs and for the last yr or so it looks like they were going to win...

 

[eaglefly]

Guys everybody in a leadership roll of any organization has to make decisions based on the info before him her. Personally I think Prater could just see the writing on the wall and wanted to be on the winning side and have an influence . Remember pilots/old guys have been pushing this age 65 thing for 25 plus yrs and for the last yr or so it looks like they were going to win...

That's right.

ALPA's just as corrupt as it ever was. It a business and the dues from all those expensive pilots will allow their secretarys who gaid paid twice what a new-hire pilot gets paid, to enjoy a nice raise.

 

[COpilot]

I have flown with Prater, I was a supporter of his, I am pro ALPA.

I was wrong, and apologize. Greedy back stabbing bastagess!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

To quote Jimmy Kimmel at the Flavor Flav roast...

Fuc% You, Rez!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Yes... that will change the perception about you...."

"maybe another season of charm school is order"

That's right.

ALPA's just as corrupt as it ever was. It a business and the dues from all those expensive pilots will allow their secretarys who gaid paid twice what a new-hire pilot gets paid, to enjoy a nice raise.

"Anyway... where was I before I was interupted...."

 

[tomgoodman]

Why now?

Remember pilots/old guys have been pushing this age 65 thing for 25 plus yrs and for the last yr or so it looks like they were going to win...

True. The effort had no real chance of succeeding until the wave of pension-dumps and wage cuts.

 

[eaglefly]

To quote Jimmy Kimmel at the Flavor Flav roast...



"Did the whores do something?"

"Yes... that will change the perception about you...."

"maybe another season of charm school is order"



"Anyway... where was I before I was interupted by those whores"

Don't quit your "day job" (current position) although it's futile. Sadly, corruption is a disease and ALPA is terminal...............now back to the word processor Mr. ALPA secretary and watch those slippery Herndon roads.

.......and remember, the "fix" is in !

 

[MALSR]

Sounds like the majority of people here are finally starting to realize that ALPA is a business that cares about making money. Very good, give yourself a pat on the back. This is something I learned long ago. Sound familiar? Maybe kind of like your own greedy executive board at your airline? Its the same story at ALPA as it is elsewhere, money, money, money.

 

[Mr.B]

"Anyway... where was I before I was interupted...."[/quote]

OK REZ,

No more interruptions, you have the floor. I just have a question since it appears you are well versed in ALPA goings-on (hopefully above and beyond "Flying the Line 1/2" and cut/paste airmail pilot pics from Vol 1)

1. Did the ALPA membership, once polled, agree to increasing age 60?

 

[LearLove]

WRONG. (insert game show LOSER buzzer)




(audeince laughing so hard. Jay Leno thinks... get her for "jaywalking"). Buzzer operator finally stops laughing and hits the LOSER buzzer...



[wrong buzzer.....) Alec Trebac is shaking his head!




judges? partial credit!!



Judges? (wrong buzzer)! attractive answer but there never was a majority... its not ALPA hasn't been truthful... its just the members don't bother to know the truth...




WINNER!! bells whistles, ballons streamers!

Johnny...tell him what he's won.

(in announcer voice). He's won reality. And in this current world.. that's a good thing....


Nothing's changed... to segway off the last quote...

From Flying the Line, Vol. 1, page 227: ​

Rez your so full of sh1t you must be Pater himself.

FU

 

[DashTrash400]

Rez, I agree with you on some things but I'm starting to think that if Prater was caught sucking Steenland off while Doug Parker did him up the a$$ and Jon Ornstein gave him a golden shower, you'd blame it on ALPA membership for not being involved enough.

 

[jke406]

Any tool who quotes "flying the line" complete with page number has absolutely zero credibility with a huge majority of his pilot peers.

can you say "Prater's Peter-Puller?"

 

[COpilot]

1. Did the ALPA membership, once polled, agree to increasing age 60?[/quote]


Only about 50% even bothered to fill out the poll.

 

[PCL_128]

ALPA isn't the problem, Prater is. ALPA is just a democratic construct. What matters is who is in the positions of leadership and power within that construct. Remember, up until the dimwits elected Prater, ALPA was staunchly anti-65. Under Duane's leadership, ALPA fought aggressively to keep the current age limit, just as the membership demanded. That should make it apparent to you all that ALPA itself isn't the problem, the problem is who was elected. Now, who is to blame for that? The membership!!! The members screamed for Duane's head on a platter, and they got it. They blamed Duane for things out of his control, demanded that he be held responsible, and then put an inferior into office. How's that worked out for all of you? People like me and Rez warned you that Prater didn't have a clue what he was doing when he was running for office, but you still screamed "anybody but Duane!" Well, now "anybody but Duane" has fu*&ed you. Instead of blaming the organization, how 'bout you fix the actual problem? Get rid of Darth Prater! If you don't have the votes on the BOD to recall him (and I don't think you do, unfortunately), then start looking for someone to replace him at the end of his term. (And this time, actually get someone competent. Might I suggest.....Duane Woerth!!!!!!)

 

[JPAustin]

None of you guys will do anything except cry on this board. The older guys know how to get things done. When ALPA was against age 65 they formed their own groups and bought lobbyist. Then they took over ALPA. What the young guys have to figure out is nobody is going to do it for you. Typing posts on flight info does nothing. Writing letters to your congressmen does about the same. The old guys just showed how the minority, when motivated, can control the outcome.

Get involved. Paying dues is not enough.

"Nobody is going to do it for you". Hah, thats a laugh riot. You know, not everyone is a politician, but they all pay their taxes. Telling someone their opinion, or letter of opinion in this matter, has no worth unless they "get involved" and that they should not rely on someone else (say, an elected official), is like telling a voter their opinion at a city council meeting has no merit because they didn't volunteer for the beach clean-up committee, or whatever. I paid my taxes, I voted your a*^ in because I like what you represent, now don't tell me I am an idiot because I didn't go beyond voting and taxes/dues by "doing my part".

If I hear one more ALPA warrior use this tired old "get involved or shut your mouth" tactic, I am going to scream (wait, I already did that). The ALPA locals may be democracies, but national, more and more, appears not to be. Churches are democracies too (well, most are) so are the parishioners supposed to "be involved" in the church in order to offer an opinion during monthly governance meetings? I think not. UH OH! I hear an ALPA warrior yelling and shaking his fist at me crying "how does a church have anything in common with this subject!" Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm used to that one, but of course, I am involved with my ALPA so perhaps that is why I at least get listened to during meetings and not shunned.

Pay the taxes, get a voice. Pay the dues, get a voice. It should be that simple.

By the way, the minority overturning a majority is not the practice of democracy. At best, it is the practice of kleptocracy (the wealth of governing body is allocated amongst the populace but with favorance toward the wealthiest, i.e., most influential) and at worst the practice of a totalitarian-democracy (i.e. "benevolent presidents" to the likes of Chile and at one time Iraq) where citizens have the right to vote, but the ruling class or president has sweeping powers to decide "what is best" for citizens.

 

[XJTAv8r]

At least the APA has a pair:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT:
Gregg Overman
Allied Pilots Association
817-302-2250/817-312-3901

PILOT RETIREMENT AGE POLL: PUBLIC URGES CAUTION

Fort Worth, Texas (December 12, 2007)—The Allied Pilots Association,
collective bargaining agent for the 12,000 pilots of American Airlines, issued the
following prepared statement today:

“This week the U.S. House of Representatives voted to increase airline pilot
retirement age from 60 to 65. Companion legislation is now pending in the Senate.

“The Allied Pilots Association—which represents the 12,000 pilots of American
Airlines, the nation’s largest passenger carrier—has commissioned an outside polling
firm to survey U.S. adults on pilot retirement age. Results so far indicate that an
overwhelming majority of Americans have serious safety concerns about any increase in
the retirement age and favor further study.

“Similarly, our pilots support age 60 retirement by a seven-to-one margin for
safety reasons. We should heed their professional judgment. After all, pilots are in the
best position to ascertain the effects of aging on their own stamina and skills and on those
of their fellow pilots.

“In response to the public’s concerns and our pilots’ own views, we urge
lawmakers to refrain from passing into law any increase in pilot retirement age. Instead,
the Federal Aviation Administration should be permitted to proceed with a Notice of
Proposed Rulemaking for a full vetting of this issue.

“The United States has long set the worldwide standard for aviation safety and
should preserve its leadership role. The reality is no one knows what would happen with
large numbers of 65-year-old pilots in the cockpits of modern commercial airliners
operating in today’s demanding environment. The data doesn’t exist because it would be
unprecedented. Prudence therefore dictates that we proceed with caution.

“For safety’s sake, it’s the right thing to do.”

 

[Doug Parker]

Rez, I agree with you on some things but I'm starting to think that if Prater was caught sucking Steenland off while Doug Parker did him up the a$$ and Jon Ornstein gave him a golden shower, you'd blame it on ALPA membership for not being involved enough.

Quote of the Year !!!!!!!!



Yeah, TRASH !!!

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Whine...complain..whine...complain...on Flightinfo.com

Meanwhile, a year from now, John Prater will still be the President of ALPA....betcha...

 

[Ezralite]

We went from "Takin' it Back!" to "We're takin' it IN the back!"

Thanks, PRATER the TRAITOR!

 

[PCL_128]

"Takin' it back..........from the junior pilots!"

 

[optimater]

Meanwhile, a year from now, John Prater will still be the President of ALPA....betcha...

If he's not, he won't care because he got what he wanted.

The funny thing in all this is that in the last 10 years, I can't think of one thing that ALPA has had go in their favor when dealing with the govt., courts, or management. It's a heck of a time for the union to become effective.:smash: