Any Cause Info on Blue's Crash?

[splatt]

I was curious if there's been any info released on the cause of the Blue's crash earlier this year?

 

[BeeVee]

Splatt,
Unfortunately, the guy G-locked while attempting to get back in position.
BeeVee

 

[splatt]

Thanks for the reply.

I was curious if that's what happened or not based on the video I saw. He seemed like a great guy taken way too soon.

 

[bunk22]

Splatt,
Unfortunately, the guy G-locked while attempting to get back in position.
BeeVee

Not from what I read or heard down here in P-cola. It was pilot error, controlled flight into terrain was the cause, not g-loc.

 

[BeeVee]

Well, we must have read some conflicting info.....the Safety Report I read said that G'Loc was the probable cause.....bunk22, did you read anything official or was it more "word of mouth"...?
BeeVee

 

[bunk22]

Well, we must have read some conflicting info.....the Safety Report I read said that G'Loc was the probable cause.....bunk22, did you read anything official or was it more "word of mouth"...?
BeeVee

Just word of mouth via the pipeline (airwarriors.com as well) and I certainly know how things can get misconstrued that way. I'm an IP down here in Whiting, while my boss is at P-cola and that is what was said from those in the know. Could it be wrong, hell yes. Do you have a good link?

 

[Kuma]

BeeVee-

You said that you read that info in the safety report? The privileged one? Are you sure you want to publish any details that you got from that report on a public website?

Reconsider, my friend.

Kuma

 

[BeeVee]

Kuma,
I misspoke...
Let me clarify, the info I read was off of the Accident Investigation Board results - which is not priveleged. The Safety Board report (which I have not seen) is priveleged and any info on that report would be , I agree with you, completely inappropriate to discuss publicly.
BeeVee

 

[splatt]

A pilot could Gray-out... loose his vision, be totally conscious and still keep pulling... which is what I suspect happened.

 

[Huggyu2]

A pilot could Gray-out... loose his vision, be totally conscious and still keep pulling... which is what I suspect happened.

Based on the video, I'd say that's highly unlikely.

 

[splatt]

HuggyU2, based on what you saw what do you think happened? (I'm an old Navy Aviation Safety School Graduate that's just try'n to figure it out without the Safety Report.)

 

[Huggyu2]

First, I'm not a Hornet pilot. Second, I have no Safety School credentials.
At that point in their profile, #6 is joining the delta with about 90 degrees of aspect and heading crossing angle, and doing about 420+. Squating the jet for that rejoin (sorry, "rendezvous") means about 7.5G's coming on quickly. Very quickly. And if he's upwards of around 480, my Hornet buds tell me the jet will go quickly to about 8.1Gs.
So, why do I not beleive it's a "gray out"?
- if I remember my physiology lectures, snatching to high G's very quickly is not the scenario for gray out. If you're not on your strain quickly, you will go straight to G-LOC.
- the Blues train very hard WRT G-tolerance, and would be able to deal with a gray out. The take this stuff more seriously than the fleet guys do, thanks to the nature of their work. The train every year in the 'fuge at Lemoore. If he was conscious but gray, I have no doubt he would have dealt with it.
- other factors: end of of the show on a two-day show. Fatigue? Dehydration maybe? He's tired at this point, even if he got a perfect night's sleep.

Bottom line: from what my non-Safety School brain remembers, it doesn't fit the bill for a "gray out" scenario, mainly due to the rapid G-onset, and what I can see on the video.

Anyways, I met Kojak at a couple of shows in '06. Real nice guy who had a good laugh with me watching U-2 landing videos in the bar at Little Rock.

 

[splatt]

I appreciate the reply... Thanks

 

[mzaharis]

Huggy,

I have considerably less experience/safetry training than you, but this report on G-LOC backs up your physical "straight to G-LOC" theory (see page 10 for the most applicable diagram):

http://www.8kcab.com/G-LOC Report.pdf

 

[Huggyu2]

Splatt,
Just want to mention: it's obviously just my theory. Nothing to back it up. And I'm wrong more than 50% of the time when it comes to stuff like this.

 

[splatt]

From the link regarding G-LOC posted above...

G-LOC as a causal factor in the loss of many high performance military aircraft.

Surveys show a proportion of G-LOC incidents, including some at Gz levels of 4G and below, have occurred in low performance training aircraft as well as high performance aircraft.

Centrifuge studies have supported the results of these surveys.

The US Naval Aerospace medical Research Laboratory suggested to the Bureau that in such aircraft, the greatest danger may occur in manoeuvres which subject a pilot to negative Gz just before exposure to a high rate of onset of positive Gz. Negative Gz sustained for more than a few seconds will initiate a slowing of the heart rate, and this will markedly reduce positive Gz tolerance if the positive Gz exposure immediately follows the negative Gz.​

 

[Oh-ryan]

BeeVee-

You said that you read that info in the safety report? The privileged one? Are you sure you want to publish any details that you got from that report on a public website?

Reconsider, my friend.

Kuma

There are plenty of parts of the SIR that are not privileged and available for public consumption. In fact most of Part A is non-privileged.

Lighten up, my friend.

 

[SIG600]

double post

 

[SIG600]

First, I'm not a Hornet pilot. Second, I have no Safety School credentials.
At that point in their profile, #6 is joining the delta with about 90 degrees of aspect and heading crossing angle, and doing about 420+. Squating the jet for that rejoin (sorry, "rendezvous") means about 7.5G's coming on quickly. Very quickly. And if he's upwards of around 480, my Hornet buds tell me the jet will go quickly to about 8.1Gs.

Hornet won't exceed 7.5 unless you over ride the G-limiter (or you yank, either way it's an over stress)... Hornet also bleeds like a stuck pig at 7.5 and can't sustain it very long unless in the vertical. Doesn't mean everything else you said isn't applicable though...

 

[aveator]

There is video of this crash? Can someone post a link?