If I wanted to phase out ASA....

[79%N1]

please post some examples of SkyWest pilots expressing 'glee' at the expense of ASA. I don't know of any, but if you can post examples I'd like to see them.

Holy crap! Are you kidding! I don't have the time! Skywest pilots are always discussing their fortune at the demise of others! I have even heard it with my own ears. You have been excited to get the ASA 700's, excited to see us leave SLC, and excited to take our 900 deliveries to start a ATL base with!

Keep the fast upgrades, right!

Case in point.....Mr. Neill's post.

 

[SkyNation]

Mr. Neil doesn't work for SkyWest. Saying 'I don't have the time' doesn't help. I want to see the posts. I think I'm like most pilots here in that we didn't want to buy ASA at all, much less get any of your planes, flying, etc.

please cut and paste the posts, thanks.

 

[bobbyice]

Mr. Neil doesn't work for SkyWest. Saying 'I don't have the time' doesn't help. I want to see the posts. I think I'm like most pilots here in that we didn't want to buy ASA at all, much less get any of your planes, flying, etc.

please cut and paste the posts, thanks.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[79%N1]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=105861

 

[SkyNation]

a link to this thread? who here is gleeful? I see posts that are observations, some predictions, but nothing that could be seen as gleeful or even hopeful on the part of the skywest guys who have posted (except for me, when I said I hope you guys grow by doing UEX flying in IAD).

 

[Speedtape]

Many people here at SkyWest like Brad many hate him. This always seems to be the case with people who get things done. In order to accomplish a lot they are going to step on a lot of toes. Like him or not he will get things done. ASA will change operationally for the better.

We want to succeed. Obviously, if nothing changes, things will remain the same. We don't have to like him. Like the motto of the State of Arkansas, this company is the "land of opportunity" for someone who can lead! After seven years of failed leadership, we are more than ready for someone who can get things done!

The pilots will love that they will start to get home on time. The Union will hate the fact that he will get rid of anyone who does not perform their job to the letter of the contract.

Excuse me, I have to take exception to your second sentence. This is not an unrepresented pilot group that has to fear a tyrant. He will have difficulty arbitrarily getting rid of anyone on this property. The contract and the associated protections will prevent some of the things that you have to live with on your side.

I find it funny that when an airline hires a bean counter as president all the work groups gasp because he doesn't understand the front lines. Also every pilot on here has a better way of running the airlines. Now an airline has chosen a pilot and everyone is freaking out, "what qualifications does he have to run an airline?" My guess is that INC will run the financial portion of the airline and BH will run the airline part of the airline.

We are looking forward to his special talents. We want him to succeed where others have failed!

Many pilots on here think that it is all on BH to get this thing fixed or he will be sent down the road with the rest. My gut feeling is that you are right that he will be sent down the road, but you are wrong in thinking that you won't suffer as well. If ASA does not succeed, you will shrink. If you improve, you will grow and add at least one additional codeshare.

ASA is already succeeding. Our operation margins are the highest in the industry. Please get yourself informed. Can we improve? With good leadership, we can improve those operation margins and make them better. Again, it's not the efforts of the employee group that needs improvements, it's the leadership and the processes that good leadership should provide. Our financial performance exceeds yours. Our operational performance, although improved in recent months, needs the attention! It sounds like, maybe, the new President has the ability to implement the necessary changes.



I know that it's not kosher to want to steal flying away from other groups, but I would like to see you doing United Express flying on the East coast that is currently being done by MESA.

Yes, it's not kosher. We simply want to take back the flying that was removed because we were in negotiations! You guys can "steal" the United Express flying since don't seem to have an issue with it. When you start flying on the East Coast, you may find your ability to maintain your pristine performance levels will suffer. Welcome to the real world!

 

[Andy Neill]

'What prevents Skywest from phasing out ASA?

Insight from a post called......"If I wanted to phase out ASA"! Riiight. More wishful thinking and Glee from Skywest Pilots on the misfortune of others. I guess even if you don't work there anymore you must be conditioned t think that way.

I assure you there was no glee intended as my world would not be brightened in any way if this came to pass. I hope you can believe me on this point.

If you wanted intellectual exchange, you could have posted from a view of, 'What is the possibility of phasing out ASA'?, or 'Is there any likelihood of ASA being phased out?, or 'What prevents Skywest from phasing out ASA?'

Any of those is an acceptable thread title to me and have adopted the last in this posting header.

And, Why do you care, anyway?

You may be surprised at the things that I care about.
I care about the time involved to develop flight schedules using genetic algorithms with PMX breeding vs the time required without PMX breeding.
I care about the implications of the Mayan calendar.
I care about memorizing Act II before a week from Monday.
...and so it goes.

Haven't gotten a response to my PM yet. Are you going to do that?

 

[MONKEY]

Excuse me, I have to take exception to your second sentence. This is not an unrepresented pilot group that has to fear a tyrant. He will have difficulty arbitrarily getting rid of anyone on this property. The contract and the associated protections will prevent some of the things that you have to live with on your side.

I understand that you have a union. I also understand that unions can protect the job of those who do not deserve protection. I believe that BH is pretty astute. He will follow the contract. If the pilots don't they will be down the road. He will make sure that the firings are legit and that the pilot will not be reinstated by the union or the court. This will show two things: He will follow the contract and he will expect the same from your pilot group, nothing more nothing less, just business.

ASA is already succeeding. Our operation margins are the highest in the industry. Please get yourself informed. Can we improve? With good leadership, we can improve those operation margins and make them better. Again, it's not the efforts of the employee group that needs improvements, it's the leadership and the processes that good leadership should provide. Our financial performance exceeds yours. Our operational performance, although improved in recent months, needs the attention! It sounds like, maybe, the new President has the ability to implement the necessary changes.

You are comparing apples to oranges. The ASA contract for the next several years does not take into account performance.

ASA has to improve performance or they will shrink!

I believe that the pilot group is only a small part of the problem. I'm sure that most of you are great guys who work hard to make ASA successful. The Atlantatude of the Delta rampers is the biggest part of the problem. But this does not matter. ASA HAS TO IMPROVE THEIR OPERATIONAL PERFORMANCE OR THEY WILL SHRINK!

Yes, it's not kosher. We simply want to take back the flying that was removed because we were in negotiations! You guys can "steal" the United Express flying since don't seem to have an issue with it. When you start flying on the East Coast, you may find your ability to maintain your pristine performance levels will suffer. Welcome to the real world!

Most the pilots on this board are cheering on MESA's death. And then suddenly you become so benevolent and above all that. MESA needs to go away for the pilot groups to prosper.

 

[CFI2766]

Most the pilots on this board are cheering on MESA's death. And then suddenly you become so benevolent and above all that. MESA needs to go away for the pilot groups to prosper.[/quote]


Though there is some conjecture of the merits of taking a below-standard airline job solely for the upgrade potential, thus making negotiating difficult for all others, It is NOT right to cheer the demise of MESA. Some of them have families to support, too.

As well, imagine what a sudden 'glut' of qualified RJ pilots will do to the regional flight crew work force. Bad for everyone...

 

[Caspian27]

Because every 3 days one of your Rollover breatheren makes a post on 'how to get rid of ASA, when we're going to take ASA's planes, how we are going to get ASA's base, ASA's routes, etc, etc, etc........

And all with such glee!!! That is why ASA pilots grow weary of your attitudes! If Skywest wants to get rid of us....PLEASE DO!!! Just put out a damn memo telling me when to clear out and get it over with already! If one of you guys wants to buy a nice house in Newnan, let me know. When I finally get my pink slip I'll sell it you for a great price!

Quit with the damn conjecture! Tell your boys in SG to pull the plug already!

As for BH, I will ask him to his face the first time I see him if he is sent here to dismantle this company. I'll let you all know what he says!

In the mean time, continue with your drooling....

Hey 79%,

Those people aren't me. Those people aren't alot of OO guys. Frankly, the people that say these things are idiots. I don't agree with them, they're ignorant and malicious. Not all of us are like this. You guys have my total support. Please don't lump us all together in one mold. We're not all like that!!!

Plus....there's one thing we can all agree on: Mesa sucks!!!

C27
XYV

 

[Caspian27]

Speedtape,

I'm genuinely curious to look at these operation numbers that you refer to. Any idea where those can be found online?

C27

 

[Caspian27]

Holy crap! Are you kidding! I don't have the time! Skywest pilots are always discussing their fortune at the demise of others! I have even heard it with my own ears. You have been excited to get the ASA 700's, excited to see us leave SLC, and excited to take our 900 deliveries to start a ATL base with!

Keep the fast upgrades, right!

Case in point.....Mr. Neill's post.

You can read my previous post to see how I personally feel about your pilot group. However, in my experience at OO I have never heard anyone badmouth EV or express "glee" at an alleged demise. To be honest, in my experience it's been SkyWest crews trying to be friendly with ASA crews, and the ASA guys were the ones that gave the cold shoulder and expressed "glee" at our a "alleged" demise. This happened a month ago to me when we ran into an ASA crew in the Holiday Inn lobby in OKC. Also, see John Pennekamps posts on this forum...

In the end, all this conjecture about ASA and SkyWest means nothing. Nothing we say is going to make one thing happen at the INC level. All that these stupid "We hate each other" conversations are doing is breeding unneeded animosity between us. We have no control.

You have my support, and glad to hear the TA passed.

Respectfully,
C27

 

[Speedtape]

Excuse me, I have to take exception to your second sentence. This is not an unrepresented pilot group that has to fear a tyrant. He will have difficulty arbitrarily getting rid of anyone on this property. The contract and the associated protections will prevent some of the things that you have to live with on your side.

I understand that you have a union. I also understand that unions can protect the job of those who do not deserve protection. I believe that BH is pretty astute. He will follow the contract. If the pilots don't they will be down the road. He will make sure that the firings are legit and that the pilot will not be reinstated by the union or the court. This will show two things: He will follow the contract and he will expect the same from your pilot group, nothing more nothing less, just business.

If he follows the contract, he will be the first. He has no experience in this area of labor. He may be accustomed to dealing with employees in a Union free environment, but he will have a steep learning curve with ALPA and this pilot group. From what I hear, your leaders do not follow their own policies when it is not convenient. In your world, you have no recourse. In our world, there is recourse. If he attempts to rule with a heavy hand with this pilot group, it will be counter productive for him in achieving his more important goals. If your perspective and forewarning of his actions becomes reality, he will spin out of control. We have plenty of experience dealing with those types.

ASA is already succeeding. Our operation margins are the highest in the industry. Please get yourself informed. Can we improve? With good leadership, we can improve those operation margins and make them better. Again, it's not the efforts of the employee group that needs improvements, it's the leadership and the processes that good leadership should provide. Our financial performance exceeds yours. Our operational performance, although improved in recent months, needs the attention! It sounds like, maybe, the new President has the ability to implement the necessary changes.

You are comparing apples to oranges. The ASA contract for the next several years does not take into account performance.

Please explain this one. You are confused.

ASA has to improve performance or they will shrink!

The new President, through good leadership, has to hire good people for his team. Then, his team needs to develop processes that will achieve the operational performance goals. Then those processes have to be effectively communicated to the employee groups so that the front line can put the plan into action. If ASA does not improve performance, it will not be the fault of the employees. We don't develop policy, we don't set corporate goals, and we don't assess the processes and correct those that do not work. If we have a good plan and good leadership, we will succeed. If we don't have good leadership and a good plan, we will fails despite our great efforts. The burden is on the President.

I believe that the pilot group is only a small part of the problem. I'm sure that most of you are great guys who work hard to make ASA successful. The Atlantatude of the Delta rampers is the biggest part of the problem. But this does not matter. ASA HAS TO IMPROVE THEIR OPERATIONAL PERFORMANCE OR THEY WILL SHRINK!

With good leadership and a good plan, ASA can improve operational performance. The rampers are no longer a part of ASA. You don't know our pilot group. We are no different than you.

Yes, it's not kosher. We simply want to take back the flying that was removed because we were in negotiations! You guys can "steal" the United Express flying since don't seem to have an issue with it. When you start flying on the East Coast, you may find your ability to maintain your pristine performance levels will suffer. Welcome to the real world!

Most the pilots on this board are cheering on MESA's death. And then suddenly you become so benevolent and above all that. MESA needs to go away for the pilot groups to prosper.

I know first hand what it's like to be out of a job. Like a small stone that has been thrown in a quiet pond, there is a ripple effect that travels way beyond the initial plunk. It affects the employee, his dependents, and others that depend on the cash flow. I would not wish unemployment on anyone in this industry to the benefit of someone else. I may be benevolent. You appear to be calloused, arrogant, and uncaring. I do not desire to "prosper" at someone else's expense. Maybe you will get to experience unemployment in your career to fully understand the crisis. Maybe, you should!

 

[79%N1]

OK, I'll retract my 'with glee'.

Mr. Neill, I have received no PM.

With so many other seemingly more important issues that you have to occupy yourself, I still must wonder why you spend brainpower on how to rid the world of ASA.

 

[Ineedabrew]

Andy is a buttcrunch

How about I see Andy get ********************in phased out . What the f$$K. What the F$$k, are you not getting any troll. Andy, go play with a camel.

 

[MONKEY]

If he attempts to rule with a heavy hand with this pilot group, it will be counter productive for him in achieving his more important goals. If your perspective and forewarning of his actions becomes reality, he will spin out of control. We have plenty of experience dealing with those types.

I don't think he will "rule with a heavy hand." I believe that he will follow the contract and expect you to do the same. If he does not follow the contract you have recourse through your union. If you don't follow the contract you will be fired. I don't see this as being calloused I see that you have come to an agreement and if the agreement is broken then action is required.

Please explain this one. You are confused.

Read the post earlier in this very thread. SkyWest is compensated based on many Performance peramiters. ASA is payed based on completion.

The new President, through good leadership, has to hire good people for his team. Then, his team needs to develop processes that will achieve the operational performance goals. Then those processes have to be effectively communicated to the employee groups so that the front line can put the plan into action. If ASA does not improve performance, it will not be the fault of the employees. We don't develop policy, we don't set corporate goals, and we don't assess the processes and correct those that do not work. If we have a good plan and good leadership, we will succeed. If we don't have good leadership and a good plan, we will fails despite our great efforts. The burden is on the President.

I agree. My point is that if your new management succeeds, you will succeed. If he fails, unfortunatly, he will take you down with him. I am hoping for your success.

There have been threads on here explaining how ASA pilots can take down the airline (pre-contract). There have been threads on here where the pilots say it's all on management to succeed and if management fails it will not hurt them. I believe that BH is going down for one final chance to save ASA. If he fails ASA will go away.

With good leadership and a good plan, ASA can improve operational performance. The rampers are no longer a part of ASA. You don't know our pilot group. We are no different than you.

I agree. I believe very small portion of the problem at ASA lies with the pilot group. I also understand the ramp issues. I know that they are Delta employees. My whole point is that even though Delta has set you up to fail they expect you to succeed. If you don't they will have you replaced. Do I think that it's fair? No. But I do think that is what they expect. Once again I wish you success.

I know first hand what it's like to be out of a job. Like a small stone that has been thrown in a quiet pond, there is a ripple effect that travels way beyond the initial plunk. It affects the employee, his dependents, and others that depend on the cash flow. I would not wish unemployment on anyone in this industry to the benefit of someone else. I may be benevolent. You appear to be calloused, arrogant, and uncaring. I do not desire to "prosper" at someone else's expense. Maybe you will get to experience unemployment in your career to fully understand the crisis. Maybe, you should!

I also understand what it's like to be out of a job. It's not a pretty thing. If MESA loses UAX flying I don't think one single pilot would be let go. They are very short staffed as it is. Some of there pilots will have to relocate, but they will still have jobs.


Because tone is very hard to read on a message board I will put out my disclaimer before I ask this next question.
Disclaimer
I do not claim to be an expert in contract law. I do not advocate this in anyway. I would just like to know if your contract offers you the protection.

I understand that INC can only transfer a limited number of aircraft per year. I also understand that Delta continues to retire 50 seat aircraft and add 70 and 76 seat aircraft. Do you have language in your contract that prevents INC from retiring 50s from your fleet and adding larger equipment to SkyWest. I would hope that spefic language is your contract to protect against this because it could be argued either way if you have nothing defining "the transfer of aircraft."

 

[John Pennekamp]

Monkey, not to interrupt your chest thumping, boot licking rah-rah-Brad-Holt adventure, but when was the las time the president of the company fired a line pilot. Or even had such on his radar screen to direct a lackey to do it? Does Jerry Atkin really run around in SGU firing people? Does he have a list of pilot names in his office for when he's not busy with all of his other high level tasks?

I'm having visions of George Steinbrenner here.

 

[MONKEY]

John

I understand your point of view. You hate ASA. You hate management. You hate your job. You may even hate your life. All your posts on this board have made all that pretty clear. You personally will also hate BH because he is management.

My posts are not pro-Holt nor anti-Holt. I'm just giving my opinion of what I think will happen. I think holt will come down there and clean house. Starting with management. He will in a Steinbrenneresque manner set his sights on problem pilots. Note that I would define a problem pilot as a pilot not willing to live up what the union agreed to.

I have been around long enough to know how he works. He will get things done and will step on toes to do it. In the end the majority of the pilots will like what ASA has become even if they don't like the way he did it. Many will hate him as you will or do johny.

Since you have taken the time to give us your opinion over and over, I figured it is only fair to tell you mine. You can take that as boot licking if you want. I'm not saying it will be a love fest, I'm not saying it will be a Nazi concentration camp. I'm saying the job will get done. Now johny boy I will let you get back to hating life.

 

[SkyNation]

Jerry, Chip (our Prez) and now Brad at ASA aren't going around looking for people to fire at the line pilot level. At SkyWest Brad always told the chiefs 'you guys do what you think is right' whenever it reached his level. It usually didn't. Now that he is Prez., I would guess he'll be even further from those decisions concerning Joe Line Pilot. Cleaning house? Yes, maybe, but not at the level you're saying.

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

I understand that INC can only transfer a limited number of aircraft per year. I also understand that Delta continues to retire 50 seat aircraft and add 70 and 76 seat aircraft. Do you have language in your contract that prevents INC from retiring 50s from your fleet and adding larger equipment to SkyWest. I would hope that spefic language is your contract to protect against this because it could be argued either way if you have nothing defining "the transfer of aircraft."

No there is nothing directly in place to protect us from this. That is one of the gripes in scope protection with the new contract. The no furlough clause for pilots on the roster as of Nov. 20 helps this problem to an extent. Obviously the current high turnover of pilots takes some of the teeth out of this protection, but it does keep Inc. from just dumping many airframes from ASA in mass.

Also, whether you buy this line of thinking or not, our new contract is pretty good, but it is not the best. Because it isn't way better or is just on par with the higher end of the regional pilot groups out there it does keep us from being a big target for "wanting to phase out ASA". I think if JA was to get rid of us at this point it would just be because he was being a
d!ck. The contract is settled, it isn't costing him out the ass, and making the shift to get rid of ASA, slowly or quickly, will cost a lot of money. What would his justification to the share holders be? That is my $.02. I am no expert, we could have an anouncement tomorrow that ASA is closing doors effective Jan 1. Who knows.

Someone else did mention this earlier in this thread I think but our scope does allow for Skywest guys to come to ASA at the same trigger points of 5 in 12 months. I won't say you are welcome, after all this is in our best interest just as much as it is yours, but I wanted it mentioned again incase they start trying to tell you guys that Inc will transfer assets to ASA unless you guys take a pay cut etc...