USAirways Info

[Mav204]

What is the status of USAirways staffing and new hires.
Is the E-190 still junior?

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Is the E-190 still junior?

No, all the senior guys decided to bid the Brazilian beast. A320 is junior now, and Phoenix is the junior base.

 

[ALGFLYR]

No, all the senior guys decided to bid the Brazilian beast. A320 is junior now, and Phoenix is the junior base.

He was just pulling your leg... everyone did not bid the 190... but PHX IS the junior base...

 

[get2flyin]

He was just pulling your leg... everyone did not bid the 190... but PHX IS the junior base...

Actually, since we haven't hired in PHX for more than two years and have had a fair amount of attrition, we will definitely be bringing some of new hires here on the A320 in '08. I thought the former PSA guys wanted to come back out West but I guess I was wrong. Evidently SAN to PHL isn't a bad commute. Shows you what I know....me being junior and all...

Lotta anger out East but very laid back in the West. Great place to work. But I'm sure flying the 190 in PHL and sharing a crew room with the East guys would be really fun too....

 

[iflyhigh]

According to a Phoenix pilot, on the West vacation award their was actually a couple of pilot junior to Dave Odell. I am assuming they are new hires. So Phoenix is junior.

 

[MK82Man]

Fellas – “junior” has no meaning at the new US Airways. As long as the East guys stall on implementing the Nic Award we are two separate pilot groups at the new US Airways. West dudes fly West airplanes with their seniority list and East flies East metal using their own seniority list.

It has been 2 years and 8 months since a new dude, Dave Odell, came to America West (I think we have some East recalls in the America West schoolhouse now that will be placed on the America West list soon). The last dude flying on the organic East list was hired in the Middle Ages, but some of the new hires are now just trickling into the new company and the 190. As a new hire you will be placed wherever the company needs you. I’ve yet to hear from a new hire what kind of seniority number they were assigned. I’m assuming they got two, one to be placed on the East or West List and also a Nic Seniority number (after the last furloughee).

Once the Nic Award is used, then base seniority will have some meaning as dudes shuffle around, but until that happens you will just be assigned by the company where you are needed and will be frozen on either the East or West side (and the applicable contract) until a joint contract and joint seniority is agreed too. With the East tactics in action, expect it to be in mid 2010. If USAPA passes, we will implode at 1800 dudes out West refuse to recognize the animal. So PHX or LAS is no more junior than PHL or BOS. You will be on the bottom of the list at whatever domicile you get. Years of Service don’t mean anything at the new US Airways … which is exactly what the East guys goofed up on when failing to negotiate at Seniority Award that valued time spent at the company. Until a joint list with a continual new flow of pilots happens, it is pretty much meaningless.

 

[Mav204]

Where are the PDT/ALG guys going right now? East or West?
Any idea when hiring off teh street will begin?

 

[greyskyracer]

Where are the PDT/ALG guys going right now? East or West?
Any idea when hiring off teh street will begin?

unfortunatly it has allready begun

 

[get2flyin]

unfortunatly it has allready begun

Unfortunately? Screw you man....bring it on! Somebody has to off-set all that attrition that the East supposedly brought to the table. We need them out West in a bad way. So far, all the new hires have East, but I think that's fixin' to change. Welcome to Phoenix!

 

[captain007]

Unfortunately? Screw you man....bring it on! Somebody has to off-set all that attrition that the East supposedly brought to the table. We need them out West in a bad way. So far, all the new hires have East, but I think that's fixin' to change. Welcome to Phoenix!

sign me up. if only they would call me for the interview. I'm ready.....

 

[PHXFLYR]

Unfortunately? Screw you man....bring it on! Somebody has to off-set all that attrition that the East supposedly brought to the table. We need them out West in a bad way. So far, all the new hires have East, but I think that's fixin' to change. Welcome to Phoenix!

Yeah, Phoenix.....15 shades of brown!!



PHXFLYR

 

[greyskyracer]

Unfortunately? Screw you man....bring it on! Somebody has to off-set all that attrition that the East supposedly brought to the table. We need them out West in a bad way. So far, all the new hires have East, but I think that's fixin' to change. Welcome to Phoenix!

Sorry I wasn't trying to offend you. My comment was a flow through reference and nothing more. You have my apolgies.

 

[get2flyin]

Sorry I wasn't trying to offend you. My comment was a flow through reference and nothing more. You have my apolgies.

Sorry if my response sounded like overreacting...I probably was. No worries, no offense taken.

 

[BeCareful!]

Fellas – “junior” has no meaning at the new US Airways.

Man, you got that right......neither does "senior."

The last dude flying on the organic East list was hired in the Middle Ages, but some of the new hires are now just trickling into the new company and the 190.

Well, yeah I guess 2000 is the "Middle Ages" for newbies to this game. Actually, if not for Republic and PSA delaying the hiring of pilots because of being allowed to "hold" J4J people for 9 months after their recall, there probably wouldn't be new hires just yet.

Looks like by March or April '08 all the classes will be purely new hire; at that point all the held J4J's will have been paroled.

My honest advice for anyone considering US Airways: unless you just have to live in one of our domiciles, and you feel sure that it will never close (PIT?), I'd look elsewhere. This company will have its way with you whenever the lighting is right. It's not just the two pilot groups that have turned seniority upside down; the company has little or no regard for seniority as well, and it often costs you, the line pilot, tens of thousands of dollars. When this happens, believe me, neither ALPA nor the Company will shed a tear or lift a finger to help.

Yep, Juniority and Lady Luck is the name of the game at this place. If you are properly junior, you might get placed on the 767, and the system basically says "screw those senior to you who want that flying. They should have been junior to themselves."

Think I'm kidding? Being (just a little)senior has cost me nearly $20,000 this year alone, and that's going to double over the next 12 months.

Ah, to be junior and placed on the 767.....must be nice.

The ALPA Grievance lady says: "just don't focus on the windfall happening junior to you."

You guys think ALPA's days are numbered only because of Nic? Think again!

 

[FLYLOW22]

"sign me up. if only they would call me for the interview. I'm ready....."

It's amazing how fast that turns into, "What in Blue Fuq was I thinking?!?!?!" Choose wisely sir.

 

[Green]

Man, you got that right......neither does "senior."




Well, yeah I guess 2000 is the "Middle Ages" for newbies to this game. Actually, if not for Republic and PSA delaying the hiring of pilots because of being allowed to "hold" J4J people for 9 months after their recall, there probably wouldn't be new hires just yet.

Looks like by March or April '08 all the classes will be purely new hire; at that point all the held J4J's will have been paroled.

My honest advice for anyone considering US Airways: unless you just have to live in one of our domiciles, and you feel sure that it will never close (PIT?), I'd look elsewhere. This company will have its way with you whenever the lighting is right. It's not just the two pilot groups that have turned seniority upside down; the company has little or no regard for seniority as well, and it often costs you, the line pilot, tens of thousands of dollars. When this happens, believe me, neither ALPA nor the Company will shed a tear or lift a finger to help.

Yep, Juniority and Lady Luck is the name of the game at this place. If you are properly junior, you might get placed on the 767, and the system basically says "screw those senior to you who want that flying. They should have been junior to themselves."

Think I'm kidding? Being (just a little)senior has cost me nearly $20,000 this year alone, and that's going to double over the next 12 months.

Ah, to be junior and placed on the 767.....must be nice.

The ALPA Grievance lady says: "just don't focus on the windfall happening junior to you."

You guys think ALPA's days are numbered only because of Nic? Think again!

BeCareful,

After reading many of your posts I assume you are a 1999-2000ish hire? You were probably at least 1000+ numbers deep on the furlough list? My question to you is do you think you should have been senior to ANYBODY on the AWA list? Would that have been a fair outcome?

 

[BeCareful!]

BeCareful,

After reading many of your posts I assume you are a 1999-2000ish hire? You were probably at least 1000+ numbers deep on the furlough list? My question to you is do you think you should have been senior to ANYBODY on the AWA list? Would that have been a fair outcome?

Time in service would have netted me a few hundred numbers. That, along with fences to protect both sides, would have been reasonable.

However the real travesty is the 2004=1985 thing. I don't expect you'll ever understand, so that's where it ends.

Anyway, with ALPA on the way out this won't happen again so it's all academic.

 

[Green]

so you are saying that even though you were deep on a furlough list with zero chance of ever being recalled you deserved to be slotted in with several hundred active AWA pilots beneath you? The vultures were circling and AWA was the only carrier interested in hitching up with AAA yet you think your career expectations merited placing you above active pilots?

How is USAPA going to change future mergers? The NIc award is not going away so how can DOH be used in future mergers? I was hired in 2004 and the pilot junior to me in 1987. Obviously he can't jump ahead of me so how could USAPA negotiate anything other than slotting in a future merger? Do you think that the NIC award will be thrown out and replaced by a DOH award? You are more likely to get your pensions re-instated in full than to overturn a federally arbitrated decision. USAPA will be unable to advocate a DOH merger policy because the new US Airways seniority list doesn't follow DOH.

 

[get2flyin]

Time in service would have netted me a few hundred numbers. That, along with fences to protect both sides, would have been reasonable.

That shoulda been the fall back after Nic said, "Absolutely no DOH, bring me a follow-up plan"

However the real travesty is the 2004=1985 thing. I don't expect you'll ever understand, so that's where it ends.

USAir: 1985 = Furloughed
AWA: 2004 = Employed

Makes perfect sense to me....and the rest of the world. But by all means, don't let me try to stop you from kicking and screaming.

 

[vetrider]

2004=1985 is bull********************, he's fudging to make his case sound even more dramatic.

 

[BeCareful!]

Fact Check:

Green is right, it's 2004 senior to 1987. And get2flyin is wrong: 1985, not even 1987, was furloughed.

2004 guy had 1.3 years in service, while 1987 had 17.8 years in service, continuous, no furlough. So, yeah, in that world you guys live in, that's fair.

So, yeah, I had 2.5 years LOS, compared to Dave's .1 years LOS. That's, let's see, 25 times as much time on the property. But as I've said, our losses at the bottom aren't anything like the 18 year guys. Also, the real loss isn't now, next year, not even 15 years from now. The real loss comes in the last years on the property.

How is USAPA going to change future mergers?

I dunno, Green, but here's hoping you get to find out. All of your "zero chance of being recalled" and "active" rhetoric falls on deaf ears. Furlough is something companies do to restructure and get through hard times. It has nothing to do with pilots or what they deserve; it's employee related and cost structure related.

Anyway, Nic or no Nic, I believe you're going to find out that the majority wants ALPA outta here.

 

[BeCareful!]

vetrider:

You're correct.....I was off by two years, but it was not intentional.

So, yeah, the 1987 hire only lost 16.5 years to the 2004 hire. Not too bad, I guess.....

 

[TWA Dude]

All of your "zero chance of being recalled" and "active" rhetoric falls on deaf ears.

Apparently George Nicolau isn't deaf. So, if you guys know so much better than Nicolau how did he get to be the one to decide the integration? Oh, yeah, you agreed to let him decide and to abide by his decision.

Furlough is something companies do to restructure and get through hard times. It has nothing to do with pilots or what they deserve; it's employee related and cost structure related.

This is true. Unfortunately for both sides we can't all get what we deserve, especially that infringes on others. That's one reason why it ended up in arbitration.

Anyway, Nic or no Nic, I believe you're going to find out that the majority wants ALPA outta here.

Scapegoating is always fun. Whether USAPA wins or not you're going to find out your problems aren't with your unions...

 

[lindsaya99]

Does anyone know if interviews have been held yet?

 

[vetrider]

vetrider:

You're correct.....I was off by two years, but it was not intentional.

So, yeah, the 1987 hire only lost 16.5 years to the 2004 hire. Not too bad, I guess.....

Sorry about accusing you like that, I just shot off my keyboard and walked away like a jerk. You have every right to express your opinion, just like anyone else. Carry on.

 

[n757st]

Does anyone know if interviews have been held yet?

Yes they have, at my contract US express carrier I know a bunch that have interviewed and most that have interviewed have been hired.

 

[reepicheep]

USAir was so grotesquely out of whack with the rest of the industry that a merger with Alaska, or AirTran, or Southwest, would have produced the same ugly results, the 4-year guy next to the 18-year guy on the combined list. There was nothing unique to AWA.

 

[andyd]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't AAA about to implode in liquidation before AWA bought them? Wouldn't it stand to reason that the only way ANY AAA driver has a job today is because of AWA? The AWA guys didn't take anything from you, AWA gave you an opportunity to come back to work, something that was rapidly going up in smoke otherwise. I think that all the the AAA guys would have been better off just quitting and going to other carriers. Just based on what i've read if the AAA guys feel that strongly about it the 3000 of them should simply take a walk. Let AAA start cancelling flights by the hundreds due to staffing?

One other thought/opinion....and it is just that...MY OPINION. Why the HE!L would ANYONE at a regional be chomping at the bits to go to work at AAA? Don't you guys read the papers about AAA, read all the threads on here about the hellish life there, all the angst and anger. You are setting yourselves up for years of misery. Stay where you are in the RJ or Turbo prop, hold out for that job at Cal, NWA, DAL, SWA, Jblue.....Anywhere but AAA. Once AAA starts cancelling flights because of an inability to attract pilots maybe things will change?

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Honest to goodness off the street newhires are already in class.

USAir is back in full hiring mode from what I hear.

Don't know any new gouge though. Good luck to us all.

 

[weasel_lips]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't AAA about to implode in liquidation before AWA bought them? Wouldn't it stand to reason that the only way ANY AAA driver has a job today is because of AWA? The AWA guys didn't take anything from you, AWA gave you an opportunity to come back to work, something that was rapidly going up in smoke otherwise. I think that all the the AAA guys would have been better off just quitting and going to other carriers. Just based on what i've read if the AAA guys feel that strongly about it the 3000 of them should simply take a walk. Let AAA start cancelling flights by the hundreds due to staffing?

One other thought/opinion....and it is just that...MY OPINION. Why the HE!L would ANYONE at a regional be chomping at the bits to go to work at AAA? Don't you guys read the papers about AAA, read all the threads on here about the hellish life there, all the angst and anger. You are setting yourselves up for years of misery. Stay where you are in the RJ or Turbo prop, hold out for that job at Cal, NWA, DAL, SWA, Jblue.....Anywhere but AAA. Once AAA starts cancelling flights because of an inability to attract pilots maybe things will change?

It's not that bad here at USAIR. This message board is full of a bunch of hype. The people that are "miserable" in this profession are the people that do not have a life outside of their career.

Just like anywhere else... you show up, fly your trip, and go home. I do not beleive that life is somehow sooooooo great and soooo much better and soooo wonderful over at some other major.

There is RAPID advancement here, thanks to all the retirements. The crews are great too.

Things will get sorted out here one way or another.