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Southwest pilot talks proceed quietly

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ualdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2003
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http://www.star-telegram.com/business/story/287751.html

Southwest pilot talks proceed quietly

By TREBOR BANSTETTER
Star-Telegram Staff Writer


Not long after he was hired as lead labor negotiator last year for Southwest Airlines, Joe Harris was pulled aside by Herb Kelleher in a hallway at the company's Dallas headquarters.
The airline's legendary chairman and co-founder had one directive regarding negotiations for the airline's new pilots contract. "Herb cornered me and said, 'Don't screw this up, Harris,'" he recounted.
Not long after, he was recognized at an airport by a Southwest pilot. "And [the pilot] came up to me and said, 'Don't let them screw this up.'"
Harris got the message. "Both sides want to come out of this with something they'll be happy with," he said. "That's never easy, but that's what we're working toward."
 
"Our pilots are the best-compensated group in the industry, and we don't want to take anything away from them," he said. "But unfortunately we don't have a blank check we can just fill out."
Still, Harris added, "to say that this is going to be very difficult implies that our pilots are greedy, and that's just not true. We're proud of the fact that they're the best-paid pilots out there, and we want to maintain that."

I love that.
 
Don't buy the bull that you are the best paid in the industry, because you are not. Take a look at the total compensation at FDX and UPS and shoot for what they/we have in terms of retirement and work rules. The pay at SWA looks great, just not at the expense of funding your own retirement and how hard you work. IMO SWA pilots need to get a B plan. In fact, a modest 3-5% pay raise and a B plan of 10-12% would be what I would reasonably expect. FWIW, which is not much.
 
I think our quality of life is a little better than UPS or Fedex...this is based on friends that work there. One even left SWA for UPS and said liked the schedule flexibility at SWA a little better. Money is not everything. You get to a point where you are happy with what you have anything more is just for the extra dinner out.
 
Well, the 401K is funded at 100% up to 7.3%. The profit sharing based on W2 earnings has averaged 10% into a seperate retirement account, plus company stock but that's been pretty much worthless last few years. Pensions haven't worked out like they should have the last few years. Ask around. However, I'll agree that a B-Plan is a good thing, if you fly boxes. Not so much in the people arena based on past history.

Payrates are for the 737 type airframe. You can't compare the 747 or MD11 to the 737 in regards to pay.

Work hard? umm, not me. 9 days this month and no vacation. Thanks Whataburger for picking up that turn or did you?;)

Some people:rolleyes:
 
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Don't buy the bull that you are the best paid in the industry, because you are not. Take a look at the total compensation at FDX and UPS and shoot for what they/we have in terms of retirement and work rules. The pay at SWA looks great, just not at the expense of funding your own retirement and how hard you work. IMO SWA pilots need to get a B plan. In fact, a modest 3-5% pay raise and a B plan of 10-12% would be what I would reasonably expect. FWIW, which is not much.

Alot of people confuse "hard" with "efficient". Its not about flight time as much as duty time. I dont believe our avg duty times are any higher than other major pax carrier, and in many cases lower. Low flight time to duty time ratio means alot of sit time. Nothing sucks energy like a few hours on the ground, or sitting thru a middle of the night sort. (in my opinion)

That being said, if the company offers what you think we need, I'd take it. Dont think its going to happen though.
 
However, I'll agree that a B-Plan is a good thing, if you fly boxes. Not so much in the people arena based on past history....

Some people:rolleyes:

A B-Fund is a employer contribution into a employee owned account. Think of it as a 401K without the requirement of a employee contribution.

A B-fund is a good thing and far better than a 401K plan which has IRS limitations/testing.

Some people!!!
 
Don't buy the bull that you are the best paid in the industry, because you are not. Take a look at the total compensation at FDX and UPS and shoot for what they/we have in terms of retirement and work rules. The pay at SWA looks great, just not at the expense of funding your own retirement and how hard you work. IMO SWA pilots need to get a B plan. In fact, a modest 3-5% pay raise and a B plan of 10-12% would be what I would reasonably expect. FWIW, which is not much.


I work for neither, but would love to work for either. What I find interesting is how you seem to have an opinion on how to best run an airline that has never lost money or had a furlough and yet have a pay scale that most any would give thier eye teeth for. Both are outstanding companies, both are well run. Leave it at that.

My only suggestion to both...offer me a job and force me to decide between the two.
 
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I like the fact that both sides seem to want to work together to do what is right. For me it isn't all about the money. I don't work at SWA but would like to if they can continue the relationship that pilots have with mgmt.
 
Yes, a B-plan is better than a 401K. The only advantage of a 401K is if it forces you to save money that you might not have otherwise. In all other ways that I can think of, a B-plan is superior to a 401K. If you think about it, a 7.3% B-plan (for example) is kind of like your company matching your 401k contribution up to 7.3% without you having to contribute anything. If you wanted to, you could take the 7.3% that you would have had to contribute to get the 7.3% matching company contribution and stick it in a IRA. The big difference between a 401K and a B-plan in this situation is that I'm free to do whatever I want with my 7.3% contribution; I don't have to contribute anything to get the 7.3% from the company. I would take a B-plan over a 401K any day of the week.

I would also take a B-plan over profit sharing because I get my B-plan contribution regardless of whether or not the company makes a profit. My B-plan, in other words, is not tied to company performance factors I have no control over. The only advantage I can think of that profit sharing has over a B-plan is if it actually motivates everyone in the company to actually perform significantly better to the degree that the company achieves a profit where it wouldn't have without the added motivation of a profit sharing plan. Does this really happen? It's unprovable either way though I have some serious doubts as to whether or not it is an effective motivational tool. I'd rather just get my contribution regardless of whether or not management makes the right decisions or the rampers in LAS are unhappy, etc. Know what I mean?
 
Tell that to the MCO based SWA Captain that pulled in $400,000 last year.

I saw his W2.
Tell that to the Fedex MEM based CA that pulled in $700,000 last year. I saw his W-2.
 
Tell that to the MCO based SWA Captain that pulled in $400,000 last year.

I saw his W2.
Doesn't everyone carry their W2s with them so they can show everyone they meet?

I remember hearing the same thing from United Captains and even ATA captains that were working the system. Not anymore.
 
Tell that to the MCO based SWA Captain that pulled in $400,000 last year.

I saw his W2.

not to knock on him, but he averages 8 days off a month from what i hear.
 
Good point, but does hauling a jumpseater or two around on a Cargo plane make that company a pax operation?
A little UPS History from http://www.airliners.net/articles/read.main?id=66

The company filled its normally empty aircraft, which didn’t operate on the weekend, with passengers bound for sunny destinations such as the Bahamas and Purta Plata, Mexico.
“It was a matter of asset utilization,” Spalding said. “Instead of having planes sit idly on the weekends, we used them for passenger service, to generate more revenue.”


[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]View Large View Medium

A Quick-Change (QC) 727-100 waits for its most precious cargo. Photo © Andy Vanderheyden
[/FONT][FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]View Large View Medium

Passengers deplaning from a UPS' passenger flight aboard their 727-100QC. Photo © AirNikon
[/FONT]


Almost all o the passengers flying “brown” liked the service. In a 1997 interview by a Philadelphia Inquirer staff writer, a passenger noted that she found the meal to be average plane food, but thought the rest of the amenities – from available legroom to cabin-crew service – surprising and pleasant. Most notably, comments came in quips from curious passengers who wondered what a flight on a cargo airline would be like. Flight Attendant Walt Marek said that while greeting customers as they boarded the plane, on almost every flight, when passengers poked their heads through the door for the first time, they exclaimed in mock surprise, “Seats!” One passenger wanted to know if they were going to have to sort mail. Perhaps Flight Attendant Jeff Riddle’s comments best describe the company’s feelings about its new service, “Airline service is all about complaining. People expect a bad flight. Here, we get to turn that belief around. I’m very proud of my job.”
The company’s 727s were modified to seat up to 113 passengers and had 1 to 3 inches more legroom than the coach sections of most airlines. It took 3 to 4 hours to convert the planes. UPS used contact personnel for ticketing and in-flight service. The company was reported to have spent two and a half-million dollars per aircraft, per conversion, which included seats, galleys, overhead bins, and restrooms.
During its first year, the company flew 50,000 passengers. The next year, 124,000. In the first five weeks alone of 2000, UPS’ passenger service carried 11,000 passengers. Most of the passengers were booked through a vacation charter service.
But, despite the impressive books and twenty-million dollars in revenue, a UPS passenger airline was short lived...
“Our passenger service was discontinued in 2001; our competitors were seating close to 200 people per aircraft. For us to remain competitive, we would have had to invest long-term in the venture. Instead, we decided to discontinue the service and focus on our core business of parcel delivery.” Said Spalding.
 
I didnt know this when I got on here, but we do have a "B plan"...it's profitsharing and it goes up and down with the company...I think of it as being "gravy" to my retirement but my wife works and really enjoys working. I would not feel secure with an A fund....unless I was at FDX or UPS...just give me money in my own name at an airline. There is opportunity to make some real good money here at SWA, but it aint for everyone...I love it here for the QOL and flexibility, but if you want the real money, fly boxes and live in a palace in Memphis or Louisville. I'm poorer here but I make enough to be happy and enjoy my job. I really hope we (and they) dont fug it up...but things are changing now. SWA used to care about the internal customer...now they dont near as much...just seem to care about the numbers right now
 
I didnt know this when I got on here, but we do have a "B plan"...it's profitsharing and it goes up and down with the company...I think of it as being "gravy" to my retirement but my wife works and really enjoys working. I would not feel secure with an A fund....unless I was at FDX or UPS...just give me money in my own name at an airline. There is opportunity to make some real good money here at SWA, but it aint for everyone...I love it here for the QOL and flexibility, but if you want the real money, fly boxes and live in a palace in Memphis or Louisville. I'm poorer here but I make enough to be happy and enjoy my job. I really hope we (and they) dont fug it up...but things are changing now. SWA used to care about the internal customer...now they dont near as much...just seem to care about the numbers right now

Nothing is a B-Plan except a B-Plan.

The PS is into the 401K as an employer contribution. 401K suffer from limits/testing and other IRC restrictions on the amounts an employee and employer can contribute per year. If these limits are triggered excess (as defined by the IRC HCE testing) employee and employer contributions are sent to the employee as taxable income.

Read the contract.

A B-Plan does not have these limits.

Splert...
 
“Our passenger service was discontinued in 2001..

We flew 727's in the '70s, are we still a 727 operator?

In other news, whey does everyone care whether we have a B-plan or not? I don't care, no one here cares, why do yall care?
I believe that with our pay, 401k, and profit sharing that our compensation package is good.
 
In other news, whey does everyone care whether we have a B-plan or not? I don't care, no one here cares, why do yall care?
I believe that with our pay, 401k, and profit sharing that our compensation package is good.
Most importantly the 401K is out of the grasp of current and future airline management
 
Splert, Yeah, you're right, but it is just like a B plan in every other respect...I know it's no the same but it is a sizable piece of the retirement puzzle and it has happened every year for a long time except for the years when everyone else is furloughing or taking pay cuts...those I cannot take
 
In other news, whey does everyone care whether we have a B-plan or not?

Because it makes it harder for the rest of us to hold on to it if you guys don't have one. I'm sure AirTran management would love to replace our 10.5% B-plan with your 401k plan.
 
Because it makes it harder for the rest of us to hold on to it if you guys don't have one. I'm sure AirTran management would love to replace our 10.5% B-plan with your 401k plan.

Likewise, I am sure SWA management would love to pay SWA pilots your payrates.
 

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