NJ Questions

[DHPFLYN]

I was wondering if some current pilots could please tell me some of the down sides of the company if there are any? You don't really hear many bad things so if there are any if you could please let me know.

Also wondering how the travel benefits work out. I know the airline benefits would be gone but hell with the loads the way they are now you never get on standby. Do your frequesnt flyer miles and hotel stays add up pretty quickly? Are you able to take family vacations on them? I have also heard you are able to jump on empty aircraft repositions. Is that true? Does anyone use that option much?

Thanks again for any answers and also if you have more to add about the company I would love to hear it. I just want to get on with a company that I can stay at for the rest of my career and enjoy my job !! Also not worry about the next merger or furlow.

Thanks again to all

 

[Guitar Guy]

I was wondering if some current pilots could please tell me some of the down sides of the company if there are any? You don't really hear many bad things so if there are any if you could please let me know.

It's been discussed in a few recent threads but basically airlining sphynx, as they say in Egypt. Usually the hotels are very nice but with the occasional stinker either in a busy city or an out-of-the-way place. Crew food is sometimes a hit or miss affair, depending on the caterer. Another potential negative for a new-hire is the long wait to upgrade. Our MEC chairman said this past Monday evening that upgrade is running 5.5 years right now and is expected to increase. So be prepared to sit right seat for a while.

Also wondering how the travel benefits work out. I know the airline benefits would be gone but hell with the loads the way they are now you never get on standby. Do your frequesnt flyer miles and hotel stays add up pretty quickly? Are you able to take family vacations on them? I have also heard you are able to jump on empty aircraft repositions. Is that true? Does anyone use that option much?

The miles and hotel points add up fairly quickly. The miles can really add up if you are in a hub city and tend to end up on one carrier most of the time. Where I live, there's no main carrier, so I have a miles on a several different carriers. But Hilton points can be used for miles so that is a potential help.

We can indeed fly on ferry legs. But the company is running around 70% of the legs with pax in the back, so keep that in mind. Also, I think most of us who've been here for at least a year or two can tell you that it's not unheard of to be diverted in the middle of a ferry leg. That could throw a wrench in the works for someone in the back. But that said, I do know of several people who've ridden on ferry legs with no problems. And I've had 3 legs in the past year with people "non-revving" in the back.

Thanks again for any answers and also if you have more to add about the company I would love to hear it. I just want to get on with a company that I can stay at for the rest of my career and enjoy my job !! Also not worry about the next merger or furlow.

I hope this has been good info for you. If you have more questions, please feel free to PM me.

 

[captain dad]

I was wondering if some current pilots could please tell me some of the down sides of the company if there are any? You don't really hear many bad things so if there are any if you could please let me know.

Also wondering how the travel benefits work out. I know the airline benefits would be gone but hell with the loads the way they are now you never get on standby. Do your frequesnt flyer miles and hotel stays add up pretty quickly? Are you able to take family vacations on them? I have also heard you are able to jump on empty aircraft repositions. Is that true? Does anyone use that option much?

Thanks again for any answers and also if you have more to add about the company I would love to hear it. I just want to get on with a company that I can stay at for the rest of my career and enjoy my job !! Also not worry about the next merger or furlow.

Thanks again to all

I can't call it a down side. It is more like a different side. Yes, you lose travel benefits, but you do rack up frequent flyer miles and hotel points to let you go wherever you want when your vacation time comes around. The trips are longer, but you get paid for it and with the new contract you will have a choice. You have to deal with paxs one on one and throw bags, but you get to talk to the rich and famous and you won't have to spend so much time in the gym. You have to keep the plane clean, but it's real clean to begin with and you can be proud of what it looks like. (Plus the line guys can be paid to do it with company money and when the plane goes in for service, the service people do it.)

The IBB will far out weigh any negatives in my opinion for a new hire. I think the existing contract is good. It was enough to make me jump ship. I am relatively new myself and I am biased. I spent ten years at the regionals and couldn't stomach going to the majors.

There are some here that are negative and like to complain. I think they are bitter and need to take a long hard look at what they really do have compared to other places. I give all the credit to those who came before, to make it what it is today. Thank You very much and job well done. I do appreciate it to no end.

As far as jobs go this is a real good one and it's getting better. It ain't for everyone, but if you have a good attitude, I don't think you will be disappointed.

Good Luck.

 

[JustInfo]

1 - Airlining sucks, made worse by the widening use of the mighty RJ.

2 - You can gain a ton of weight with the unlimited supply of crew food which has become better in recent weeks. When it was going downhill I think I actually started to lose weight. I can't believe the IBB is trying to limit us to 4 meals per duty period! (insert sarcasm here...)

3 - Paying more in taxes than I ever have.

4 - Depending on the fleet you can have some long days without much rest. You always have a no fault fatigue call when you've had enough though. (please don't hijack this into another fatigue call abuse thread.)

 

[Jafo73]

Do your frequesnt flyer miles and hotel stays add up pretty quickly?

YES the points add up. I have almost 90,000 Hilton points in under a year and I spent almost 2 months not staying in a single Hilton, add in my military reserve duty leave and (to me) it makes it seem even better!

 

[learflyer]

plus, you can "double dip" on your hilton stays by choosing a participating airline and get even more points/miles.

 

[DHPFLYN]

Thanks for all the quick responses. That is all great information. I take it once you are hired you sign up for evey plan possible to make the most of you travel miles.

Once you are hired do they give you a list of aircraft they need people in and somehow figure a order for the class to pick in? Or does the company just assign the aircraft to each person?

Also how are the medical benefits? Mostly comparable to most other companies? Are you given it on your first day? Or is there a few month waiting period like some major airlines? It looks like the retirement is pretty good atleast the company matches up to 15% if i read that right.

Does the company ever have you work past your 7 days? Or can you choose to make extra money by working longer?

Thanks again for all the answers

 

[CA1900]

Thanks for all the quick responses. That is all great information. I take it once you are hired you sign up for evey plan possible to make the most of you travel miles.

Yep, exactly. They take time out of ground school for it, in fact -- you'll get a form to fill out with all the various point programs on it, which you'll turn into the travel department. They'll build a profile for you, which will include all these numbers, so they can use them when they book your flights.

Once you are hired do they give you a list of aircraft they need people in and somehow figure a order for the class to pick in? Or does the company just assign the aircraft to each person?

It's done individually. When they call you, they'll let you know what aircraft have slots available for your domicile, and what the available class dates are. (If the TA passes, the domicile issue will be irrelevant.)

Sometimes you won't have a choice; sometimes you will. When I was hired last year, they offered me the Citation Encore, Hawker 400XP (aka Beechjet), or Citation Excel. Even though it had a class date two weeks later, I took the Excel because it was a little bit larger and has an APU. (In our fleet, the Encore, Ultra, and 400XP do not have APUs.) I gave up a couple weeks of seniority for it, but I think it was worth it.

Also how are the medical benefits? Mostly comparable to most other companies? Are you given it on your first day? Or is there a few month waiting period like some major airlines?

Medical is very good, starts the first day of class, and is fully paid by the company from day 1. As long as you have doctors around you that accept Aetna, it does very well.

It looks like the retirement is pretty good atleast the company matches up to 15% if i read that right.

Yes. The company will match 50% for every dollar you contribute, up to 15% of your income, up to the legal maximum of (I believe) $15,500, into a Fidelity 401K account.

Does the company ever have you work past your 7 days?

They are contractually prohibited from requiring you to work you longer than 7 days. (In the new TA, one of the schedules will allow them to assign one 8-day trip every 4-month bid period.) You can volunteer to extend if there's a need, but there are no guarantees on it, and there are some limits. An extended day pays 150% of your normal rate. (For a 7/7 guy, divide the annual salary on APC by 182 to find your normal daily rate.

Good luck!

 

[Mooneymite]

Frantional downside

This may not be the best place to ask about the negatives of a fractional career. Most of the posters are committed to the fractional way of life and have learned to adjust to and even love the life.

I haven't been a frac pilot long, I was a 121 guy for most of my life. Here are a couple of "dissenting views" which may, or may not matter to you. It's a personal thing.

#1. The trips are long. In my former life, I flew mostly 3 day trips, so I was only "completely gone" one day. At the frac, I fly 7 day trips, so I am "completely gone" 5 days. If you have small children and home responsibilities, this is a long time to be away. As I got more senior at the airline, I flew high time turn-arounds eleven times a month. There's no seniority at the fracs that will allow a schedule like that. Won't happen....ever.

#2. Seniority isn't worth much as far as what you do day to day. The guys who have been here ten years are still toting bags and cleaning cabins...just like a junior puke like me. Doesn't matter how much senioriy you have, you won't get trips you can take your wife on. You'll never seen a 2-on/five-off line of time. Doesn't matter how much seniority you have, you can't bid to fly turn-arounds to San Juan all month long. Senior guys are sitting FBO hot standby just as frequently as a junior puke like me. Senior frac guys just don't get the perks that the "chosen few" get at the airlines.

#3. Guys talk about how great the airline points and hotel points are. They are great, but they don't accrue all that fast. When my kids were in college, they came and went on my airline passes all they wanted. (Yes, they had to be careful when they travelled, but they always got where they needed to be.). About all I've been able to get is a four airline tickets in two years. Your mileage may vary.

#4. This may not be all that important sounding right now when you are young, but, I can tell you that the frac pilots WORK. They work hard. Much harder than a 121 pilot in an average week. When you are 60, you'll be doing the same work at the frac that you are doing when you're 30. If the old frac guys don't work hard, they are making life tough for the other pilot. Frac pilots work long hours and often have short layovers over the whole 7 day tour. You will find out that age does matter a lot more at the frac.

Overall, a great job. The trips are usually a lot of fun and the flying is exciting and rarely boring, but it isn't a panacea. Now that my kids are grown and gone, this is a great job, but I'm glad I didn't do this while I was raising my family. Look before you leap.

 

[JustInfo]

All great points mooneymite, I have often said I can't see myself doing this kind of flying much past 60. Good to see it from your perspective. I have told several airline guys approaching 60 to think long and hard before coming to NJA for the exact reasons you bring up.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

If I get hired at NJ, I am looking forward to the (for me) very, very short trips.

So far (last 5.5 years) my longest trip was 32 days and I had one of 31. I've had lots of 25, 24, 23, 22, 21.

I'm currently on a 6 day trip, which is VERY short at my airline. The average trip I've had has been 20 days for the first 2 years I was here.

7/7, or a 5/3, on a reserve schedule, sound great.

My CEO actually told me that 17 on/15 off sounded great to her-much better than what I get now!

cliff
YIP

 

[N817AA]

Move to YIP and your QOL will go up. Just ask RH.

 

[DHPFLYN]

mooneymite thanks for your information on the quality of life. How does the standby at the FBO work? Do they fly you in to sit reserve there? I take it you are sitting there as a crew with A/c incase they need you? Also since it was brought up, I do know overnights are all different but are they usually short? long? Are you usually flying tired due to alot of short rest overnights? I have also looked on APC about pay rates and wondering about the "Reserve" and "Normal" pay what is the difference? Everyone is 7 on 7 off if I am right? I do see they pay more for the reserve side if those rates are correct. Any info on that would be helpful. Also could someone post what a day in the life is like? Departure and arrival times things like that for a few days of a trip. I know it is different all times but just a look would be very interesting.

Thanks again for all your information

 

[Guitar Guy]

How does the standby at the FBO work? Do they fly you in to sit reserve there? I take it you are sitting there as a crew with A/c incase they need you?

As long as you have a partner and a good plane, they can sit at the FBO for your entire duty day. Personally, I've never spent a full duty day at the FBO under those circumstances. As for sitting at an FBO for a "just in case" situation, there are a few different levels of that that boil down to preparation level and aircraft fueling, but it's generally a 30- or 60-minute time from notification to takeoff.

On the other hand, if the plane is broken (or not there) and/or if you have no partner, there are limits on how long the company can sit you at an FBO before you can request a hotel and before OT kicks in for pay purposes.

Also since it was brought up, I do know overnights are all different but are they usually short? long? Are you usually flying tired due to alot of short rest overnights?

Minimum rest period is 10 hours. Sometime when you get busy, you'll find a lot of 10-11 hour overnights.

As for flying tired, THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO DO THAT! We have a fatigue policy and if you are tired, you simply state that you are fatigued and you are done. No questions, no "but we really need to get this flight done", etc. Normally, if you give the company a heads-up that you are going to fatigue, they'll usually work to remove flights and change the schedule before you drop the so-called "F-bomb". At least that's been my experience. It's one very nice area of our contract and our operation, having a fatigue policy.

I have also looked on APC about pay rates and wondering about the "Reserve" and "Normal" pay what is the difference? Everyone is 7 on 7 off if I am right? I do see they pay more for the reserve side if those rates are correct. Any info on that would be helpful.

Currently, we have 2 schedules: the 7/7 and the 18-day Reserve. The 7/7 is the normal schedule. The Reserve schedule is voluntary to a point and if there aren't enough volunteers, it is junior-assigned. The cap is 40% on the Reserve and the company can only junior-assign up to 10% of the pilots in a given fleet/seat combination. Currently, the Reserve pays 18.68% more than the 7/7. And if you are curious, there are a few fleet/seat combos where Reserve has gone senior.

If IBB is ratified, there will be a third schedule: the 15-day Flex. Another change will be that the Reserve schedule is purely voluntary and the Flex would be capped at 10% through volunteers or junior assignment (except for pilots in training and certain instructor/CA positions). The 15-day Flex would pay 10% more than the 7/7, while the 18-day Fixed would pay 21.65% more than the 7/7.

Also could someone post what a day in the life is like? Departure and arrival times things like that for a few days of a trip. I know it is different all times but just a look would be very interesting.

It's really not possible to post a typical day-in-the-life. You could fly one leg, you could six or seven legs. You could have a "show at home" and do nothing. You could sit around an FBO for several hours before heading to the hotel. You could be on duty at the hotel all day. You could simply airline to/from your HBA/domicile/crew base. I'm not trying to be unhelpful, but it's simply too hard to say what a "day in the life" is like.

 

[DHPFLYN]

Guitar
thanks alot for the great answers. The 18 day reserve is this 18 straight days? Or do they break it up in different time periods?
Are you stuck actually sitting in that FBO all day if they choose? I mean are you able to leave to eat? just be close to the FBO?
Also what is the most legs you have flown in a day if you don't mind me asking? We have a cap on the legs we can do in a given day.
We also have a fatigue call policy at my current company which does make it nice if you are tired.

 

[CA1900]

thanks alot for the great answers. The 18 day reserve is this 18 straight days?

Nope; the tours are still a maximum of 7 days, though they can be shorter than that. (If it's a full 7, you'll get at least 4 days off afterwards. Shorter than that, and you'll get at least 3.)

If you're at home, you'll know by 6pm the night before whether the following day will be a workday or not. If they say they have nothing for you the next day, you're off. You won't need to carry your pager, nor will they call you and change their mind. Crack a beer; you're off.

"Reserve" is a very poor name for this schedule, because that's not really what it is. If they having nothing for you, you're off. Otherwise, they'll give you a show time, and at that point, you show up at the appointed time like a regular 7/7 pilot would. All the rules are the same at that point. I guess they call it reserve because your workdays can change. But you're not sitting around at the airport waiting to get called to a plane.

It pays more because you work more days. (You work about 18% more days, and you're paid about 18% more dollars.)

Are you stuck actually sitting in that FBO all day if they choose?

If you have a full crew and an airworthy airplane, they may put you at the FBO for an entire duty period. This is the case for both the 7/7 schedule and the Reserve schedule. I've sat a few hours here and there, but never a whole day in the year I've been here.

If there isn't a complete crew or an airworthy airplane, there are contractual limits on how long you can stay at the airport before they have to get you to a hotel, get you a new airplane, or start paying you overtime pay for wasting your time.

I mean are you able to leave to eat? just be close to the FBO?

Depends on their needs. If they require you to sit standby at the airport, they're required to provide you with your choice of crew food from our menu at no charge to the crewmember. Or you can call and say you'd like to go out for some real food on your own. If they don't need you close, they'll usually have no problem with that.

Also what is the most legs you have flown in a day if you don't mind me asking? We have a cap on the legs we can do in a given day.

I'm in the Excel, one of our busiest airplanes. I looked back over my past year's logs, and I've had three 5-leg days; the rest have been 4 or fewer. Most flight time in a day for me has been 7.7 hours; that was on a 4-leg day.

We don't have a limit on the number of flights, but we do have a limit of 10 hours of flying in any 24-hour period.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Guitar
thanks alot for the great answers. The 18 day reserve is this 18 straight days? Or do they break it up in different time periods?

No, it is (mercifully) not 18 days straight. Under IBB, the longest-possible tour is 8 days, but that can only be done once per 4-month bid period. The days off after a tour are 5 days if it's an 8-day tour, 4 days off if a 7-day, and 3 days off it's 6 or less days on tour. Also under IBB, your schedule must be published on the 15th of the prior month. There will also be a pref-bid type system so you can enter your preference for days off, preferred tour lengths and/or preferred length of time between tours. You may not always get what you want, but you'll be able to make your preferences known.

In addition, if you aren't going into a required day off, you'll have to check your company-issued blackberry or call in to see if the next day is a work day or not. The company is supposed to brief you by 6 PM local; if not, you call/message them by 7 PM local to make the work-day determination. It's much nicer than having to sit around by a phone or a pager the entire in anticipation of a call-out 24-7, in my opinion.

Are you stuck actually sitting in that FBO all day if they choose? I mean are you able to leave to eat? just be close to the FBO?

Possibly, but you can call and ask to go on hourly check-ins ("hourlies"). As for food, if they put you on hot standby (ready to launch in 30 minutes), they'll provide crew food. If you're not on hot standby, ask to go on hourlies. They'll either release you to those or they'll opt to get you food. As you probably know, some FBO's are much nicer than others.

Also what is the most legs you have flown in a day if you don't mind me asking? We have a cap on the legs we can do in a given day.
We also have a fatigue call policy at my current company which does make it nice if you are tired.

I think the max legs I've flown in one days is eight. I came from a regional, so I wasn't completely surprised to fly so many legs in one day. At my previous employer, we actually had some 10-leg days on the schedule.

 

[DHPFLYN]

I really want to thank you all for this information it has helped me alot. It sounds like there is some bad there like everywhere else but to me the good things far outweigh any bad ones !!

If I understand right the reserve side the only thing that changes is your working week. It could change from say Wed-Wed to Fri-Fri? All depending on when they need me.

I was wondering how often you bid for your work weeks?

I really am wondering How is the food they provide? Anything has to be better than the crew meals we recieve at the regional level. If they even have any for us !!

I am currently updating my resume and cover letter as we speak. I look forward to sending it in Monday.

One other quick question Is one way better thank the other as far as sending the resume? Does emailing it make it any faster? Is mail better? Or id there anything wrong with doing it both ways?

Thanks again to all of you it has really helped me make my mind up and hope to one day buy you all a beer !!!

 

[CA1900]

It sounds like there is some bad there like everywhere else but to me the good things far outweigh any bad ones !!

I think so. But then again, that's why I applied for a job there!

If I understand right the reserve side the only thing that changes is your working week. It could change from say Wed-Wed to Fri-Fri? All depending on when they need me.

Sorta. It's more than your working week, though: it's your working days that can change. (And since you're working 18 days, it'll by definition be more than 7-on/7-off.)

You might do a tour of six days, have three days off, do a tour of seven, have 10 days off, and then do 5 days on. You go day by day; you won't know until you're done for the day whether you're working the next one. (Or by 6pm, if you're home on a day off.) The only times you know for sure that you'll be off are the hard days off (two pairs) that you bid by seniority. Other than that, you can't really make any plans.

If the new contract passes, the rules will change. The 18-day schedule will be planned out (instead of ad-hoc as it is now), and you'll know by the 15th of the previous month what days you'll be working. If there are any gaps in coverage, they'll be covered by the new 15-day flexible schedule, which 10% of the pilots in each fleet will be on.

I was wondering how often you bid for your work weeks?

Currently, it's even quarter. (Our work quarters start 2/1, 5/1, 8/1, and 11/1.) If the TA passes, it will go to 4-month bid periods instead of 3.

I really am wondering How is the food they provide? Anything has to be better than the crew meals we recieve at the regional level. If they even have any for us !!

I worked for CommutAir; I never had any meals provided at all. I got whatever I could scrounge from the food court or pack in my lunch cooler.

In general, the quality of the crew food is good. It was monotonous for a while, with a very limited menu. We've since had regional options added, which has meant a huge increase in the variety and quality.

There are extremes on either end -- I've had some meals that were absolutely incredible (a fish dinner in Rockland, ME), and some that were wholly inedible. In the cities you use a lot, you learn which caterers to avoid, which ones to plan on, and what they're good at making. For example, here's a grilled salmon dinner from our caterer in HPN. On the side (not shown) were a small salad, a dessert of some kind, and a roll with butter.

One other quick question Is one way better thank the other as far as sending the resume? Does emailing it make it any faster? Is mail better? Or id there anything wrong with doing it both ways?

I'd recommend going strictly with e-mail. This company lives and dies by e-mail, and the recruiting system is set up to deal with it very well. I'd recommend sending your resume as a PDF file if you have the capability. Otherwise, a .doc (MS Word) file should work fine.

Thanks again to all of you it has really helped me make my mind up and hope to one day buy you all a beer !!!

:beer:

 

[Guitar Guy]

CA1900 hit most of this...

...but I'll add a little more.

If I understand right the reserve side the only thing that changes is your working week. It could change from say Wed-Wed to Fri-Fri? All depending on when they need me.

I was wondering how often you bid for your work weeks?

Wed-Wed or Fri-Fri is actually 8 work days. A 7-day work week would be Wed-Tue or Fri-Thu.

As for when one would work under the Reserve schedule, it's up to the company subject to limits such as 18 days in a month, required off days, etc. Right now, the Reserve schedule isn't published whereas under IBB it will be.

As for bidding, like CA1900, it will be once every 4 months under the IBB proposal. Currently, schedules are bid every quarter (3 months).

I really am wondering How is the food they provide? Anything has to be better than the crew meals we recieve at the regional level. If they even have any for us !!

I never got crew meals at the regional level. I ate what I carried (Kashi bars and the like) or maybe once in a while what I could find on an overnight. Rarely did I venture into the dreaded food courts.

Crew food runs the gamut. Rudy's in the northeast was a real favorite for most crewmembers when I started at NetJets. Now, a lot of people will try to place crewfood orders in order to get away from Rudy's. But most of the stuff is pretty decent and some caterers are truly fantastic.

One other quick question Is one way better thank the other as far as sending the resume? Does emailing it make it any faster? Is mail better? Or id there anything wrong with doing it both ways?

Thanks again to all of you it has really helped me make my mind up and hope to one day buy you all a beer !!!

Definitely do email. And with the huge influx of resumes in the past several weeks, it could take a little while for them to contact you. By the way, if you have an internal recommendation, have that person in send in your resume. It's likely to catch the recruiters' attention quicker.

As for buying all of us beer, there's no need to wait.