Just to let you know, the DC-9 is, was a Regional Jet

[flyn96]

Neat video of the good ole days

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncvTMFL5kxc

 

[flyf15]

Theres no such thing as a "regional" jet beyond just marketing. I fly a CRJ-200 on routes over 1000 miles long. I fly them from a major hub to major cities. I'm in and out of Class B all day long every day. Theres nothing "regional" about what we do besides that its in the "region" of North America.

They're "outsourced" jets... plain and simple. Maybe I should start calling my CRJ the COJ.

The DC-9 may be a "regional" jet, but who cares about labels. Does it have a "regional" pay scale?

 

[GOULET!]

This should be viewed by every DC-9 pilot at Northwest. Truely the first RJ.

 

[flyn96]

Theres no such thing as a "regional" jet beyond just marketing. I fly a CRJ-200 on routes over 1000 miles long. I fly them from a major hub to major cities. I'm in and out of Class B all day long every day. Theres nothing "regional" about what we do besides that its in the "region" of North America.

They're "outsourced" jets... plain and simple. Maybe I should start calling my CRJ the COJ.

The DC-9 may be a "regional" jet, but who cares about labels. Does it have a "regional" pay scale?

RJ actually means Replacement Jet! ;-)

 

[regionaltard]

And the really cool thing about it is that the crew probably had about three times the purchasing power that pilots with the same number of seats behind them do today.

Oh yeah....the flight attendants fit in the aisles too.

 

[LR25]

The DC-9 was one of the best jets I have flown.

 

[landlover]

the regionals suck at life. if you fy for a regional, i instruct you to punch yourself in the face. i can say this cause i just got home from the baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Nope, we pilots are the ones that suck at respecting our profession by allowing the separation of the pilot workforce into classes

 

[deadstick]

Back in the early 1980's:

PIA-ORD 113nm United 727
PIA-STL 119nm Ozark DC-9

There were smoking sections, too.

 

[CA1900]

Don't forget the massive governmental price-fixing and subsidies to guarantee profits to the carriers doing these short runs with big airplanes.

I don't miss the smoking sections. uke:

 

[Speedtape]

The B-737 was also initially promoted as a Regional Jet. It had big main tires and was designed to land and takeoff in short and unimproved fields.

Interestingly enough, at some point, Delta and other airlines were using them to fly across country on longer routes that had been flown by Convair 880's, DC-8's and 727's. Just as today's RJ, they were used on longer thinner routes after deregulation and the end of government subsidized air fares.

 

[DrewBlows]

The music makes me want to start smoking and drink martini's.

 

[Propsync]

Isn't there a part in Flying the Line about ALPA fighting to keep the 9 and 737 a three crew flightdeck? I'm not an expert on the 737-100, but were any or all of those made with an FE station?

Here's my question then- should the CRJ-1000 be a three crew aircraft? The question I pose is a joke, curious to see how many uptighters on here will go nuts about it.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Well, it's single-pilot now anyways. Your point is moot.

 

[A350]

No, the B737 and DC9 were always 2 pilot airplanes....

ALPA wanted the rule that any plane over 80K gross had to have a flight engineer. They wanted to enforce the rule and have a pilot sit there and pick his nose and PAY DUES!

A350

 

[urflyingme?!]

No, the B737 and DC9 were always 2 pilot airplanes....

ALPA wanted the rule that any plane over 80K gross had to have a flight engineer. They wanted to enforce the rule and have a pilot sit there and pick his nose and PAY DUES!

A350

Ya dumbass and create 50% MORE JOBS! geeze. I bet you could get a raise and turn it down because it would mean paying more dues!

It WAS , however a fairly dumb idea, but then again they might not have seen FMS's yet....

 

[AV1ATRX]

Holy Hat Batman!

 

[Donsa320]

No, the B737 and DC9 were always 2 pilot airplanes....

ALPA wanted the rule that any plane over 80K gross had to have a flight engineer. They wanted to enforce the rule and have a pilot sit there and pick his nose and PAY DUES!

A350

Actually,the CAR rule was anything over 74,000lbs required an FE. This allowed the DC-4 to be flown with just 2 pilots but the DC-6 and larger needed an F/E. Even the 2 engine Caravelle that United flew had an F/E. Douglas advanced the idea that they could automate systems enough in the DC-9 that an F/E was not needed and Delta agreed to help get the rule changed. Eastern followed suit. Boeing got on the band wagon with the 737 sans engineer position but United's union as well as Western balked and much trouble followed as those carriers had to carry 3 pilots. Not unlike the fireman position on a Diesel locomotive. The word featherbedding was applied to both. <grin>

 

[A350]

URflying: OK, so I guess you wouldn't mind an engineer on your CRJ? It was a stupid idea and it was featherbedding, pure and simple. When you apply the safety mantra, that didn't work either. UAL had an accident at MDW where a botched go around led to the loss of the aircraft with 3 pilots aboard.

Donsa: I wasn't aware of the Caravelle having an engineer....I have never been inside one. There was one in CMH (Old Airborne Express colors) but never had the opportunity to get over there to check it out.

A350

 

[Donsa320]

URflying: OK, so I guess you wouldn't mind an engineer on your CRJ? It was a stupid idea and it was featherbedding, pure and simple. When you apply the safety mantra, that didn't work either. UAL had an accident at MDW where a botched go around led to the loss of the aircraft with 3 pilots aboard.

Donsa: I wasn't aware of the Caravelle having an engineer....I have never been inside one. There was one in CMH (Old Airborne Express colors) but never had the opportunity to get over there to check it out.

A350

Re; the Caravelle, hey, if you ever get through MKE there is a little museum at the north end of the main concourse. They had a cutaway model of the Caravelle there. Without that, I would not have known they had a F/E position either.

I do recall the MDW accident all to well. I seem to recall that the Capt. had the 3rd pilot in the right seat illegally, if I recall correctly.

Best regards, DC

 

[SuperPilot]

Those PAX sure looked to be having a swell time! Only an hour flight and they were knockin' em back like professionals! I miss the old days of flying...

 

[noperf]

Wein went on strike over the 3rd pilot position on the 737. ALPA national policy at the time was turbo-jets had a 3rd pilot. Delta MEC agreed with management to fly the 9 with two pilots. As I recall American dropped out of ALPA in about '64 over an ALPA sympathy stirke with the Engineer's union when the majors wanted FE's to have pilot liscences.

 

[Captain Morgan]

SuperPilot: I always look forward to your avatars... Nice work! :beer:

 

[D-Bo]

No, the B737 and DC9 were always 2 pilot airplanes....

At UAL in the 70s and early 80s, the 737-200 was operated with a crew of three per our contract at the time. The 3rd pilot occupied the middle jumpseat and it was actually referred to as an engineer position.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yep and those "regional" pilots in the video would have held NWA seniority numbers after three or four mergers. There was not all this alter ego "portfolio" stuff - ALPA would not have let it happen back then.

 

[regionaltard]

Yep and those "regional" pilots in the video would have held NWA seniority numbers after three or four mergers. There was not all this alter ego "portfolio" stuff - ALPA would not have let it happen back then.

Shhhh! Do Not Disturb. Union Sleeping.

 

[Donsa320]

Yep and those "regional" pilots in the video would have held NWA seniority numbers after three or four mergers. There was not all this alter ego "portfolio" stuff - ALPA would not have let it happen back then.

You are correct. I was one of them. Started in DC-3's and Convairs in 1959 at North Central and retired as a B-747-400 capt on international pay.

It was later that things fell apart. I do believe a great part of it was because of APA and AA getting Eagle into the tent. That and the AA "B" scale. Now APA wants to get everything back since 1992. Fat chance IMHO.

Standing by for incoming....

DC

 

[Speedtape]

No, the B737 and DC9 were always 2 pilot airplanes....

ALPA wanted the rule that any plane over 80K gross had to have a flight engineer. They wanted to enforce the rule and have a pilot sit there and pick his nose and PAY DUES!

A350

I've seen plenty of people do that in the left seat!

 

[Speedtape]

Wein went on strike over the 3rd pilot position on the 737. ALPA national policy at the time was turbo-jets had a 3rd pilot. Delta MEC agreed with management to fly the 9 with two pilots. As I recall American dropped out of ALPA in about '64 over an ALPA sympathy stirke with the Engineer's union when the majors wanted FE's to have pilot liscences.

Was there a flight engineer on the Convair 880 that Delta flew?

Who let camel's nose in the tent on RJ's?

 

[JohnnyP]

......

Was there a flight engineer on the Convair 880 that Delta flew?

Yes there was. My father flew the CV880 @ DAL and mentioned there was a flight engineer spot. The way he spoke of it, it seemed to be sort of an afterthought, but a guy was in the seat nonetheless.