Just to let you know, the DC-9 is, was a Regional Jet

[urflyingme?!]

No, the B737 and DC9 were always 2 pilot airplanes....

ALPA wanted the rule that any plane over 80K gross had to have a flight engineer. They wanted to enforce the rule and have a pilot sit there and pick his nose and PAY DUES!

A350

Ya dumbass and create 50% MORE JOBS! geeze. I bet you could get a raise and turn it down because it would mean paying more dues!

It WAS , however a fairly dumb idea, but then again they might not have seen FMS's yet....

 

[AV1ATRX]

Holy Hat Batman!

 

[Donsa320]

No, the B737 and DC9 were always 2 pilot airplanes....

ALPA wanted the rule that any plane over 80K gross had to have a flight engineer. They wanted to enforce the rule and have a pilot sit there and pick his nose and PAY DUES!

A350

Actually,the CAR rule was anything over 74,000lbs required an FE. This allowed the DC-4 to be flown with just 2 pilots but the DC-6 and larger needed an F/E. Even the 2 engine Caravelle that United flew had an F/E. Douglas advanced the idea that they could automate systems enough in the DC-9 that an F/E was not needed and Delta agreed to help get the rule changed. Eastern followed suit. Boeing got on the band wagon with the 737 sans engineer position but United's union as well as Western balked and much trouble followed as those carriers had to carry 3 pilots. Not unlike the fireman position on a Diesel locomotive. The word featherbedding was applied to both. <grin>

 

[A350]

URflying: OK, so I guess you wouldn't mind an engineer on your CRJ? It was a stupid idea and it was featherbedding, pure and simple. When you apply the safety mantra, that didn't work either. UAL had an accident at MDW where a botched go around led to the loss of the aircraft with 3 pilots aboard.

Donsa: I wasn't aware of the Caravelle having an engineer....I have never been inside one. There was one in CMH (Old Airborne Express colors) but never had the opportunity to get over there to check it out.

A350

 

[Donsa320]

URflying: OK, so I guess you wouldn't mind an engineer on your CRJ? It was a stupid idea and it was featherbedding, pure and simple. When you apply the safety mantra, that didn't work either. UAL had an accident at MDW where a botched go around led to the loss of the aircraft with 3 pilots aboard.

Donsa: I wasn't aware of the Caravelle having an engineer....I have never been inside one. There was one in CMH (Old Airborne Express colors) but never had the opportunity to get over there to check it out.

A350

Re; the Caravelle, hey, if you ever get through MKE there is a little museum at the north end of the main concourse. They had a cutaway model of the Caravelle there. Without that, I would not have known they had a F/E position either.

I do recall the MDW accident all to well. I seem to recall that the Capt. had the 3rd pilot in the right seat illegally, if I recall correctly.

Best regards, DC

 

[SuperPilot]

Those PAX sure looked to be having a swell time! Only an hour flight and they were knockin' em back like professionals! I miss the old days of flying...

 

[noperf]

Wein went on strike over the 3rd pilot position on the 737. ALPA national policy at the time was turbo-jets had a 3rd pilot. Delta MEC agreed with management to fly the 9 with two pilots. As I recall American dropped out of ALPA in about '64 over an ALPA sympathy stirke with the Engineer's union when the majors wanted FE's to have pilot liscences.

 

[Captain Morgan]

SuperPilot: I always look forward to your avatars... Nice work! :beer:

 

[D-Bo]

No, the B737 and DC9 were always 2 pilot airplanes....

At UAL in the 70s and early 80s, the 737-200 was operated with a crew of three per our contract at the time. The 3rd pilot occupied the middle jumpseat and it was actually referred to as an engineer position.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yep and those "regional" pilots in the video would have held NWA seniority numbers after three or four mergers. There was not all this alter ego "portfolio" stuff - ALPA would not have let it happen back then.

 

[regionaltard]

Yep and those "regional" pilots in the video would have held NWA seniority numbers after three or four mergers. There was not all this alter ego "portfolio" stuff - ALPA would not have let it happen back then.

Shhhh! Do Not Disturb. Union Sleeping.

 

[Donsa320]

Yep and those "regional" pilots in the video would have held NWA seniority numbers after three or four mergers. There was not all this alter ego "portfolio" stuff - ALPA would not have let it happen back then.

You are correct. I was one of them. Started in DC-3's and Convairs in 1959 at North Central and retired as a B-747-400 capt on international pay.

It was later that things fell apart. I do believe a great part of it was because of APA and AA getting Eagle into the tent. That and the AA "B" scale. Now APA wants to get everything back since 1992. Fat chance IMHO.

Standing by for incoming....

DC

 

[Speedtape]

No, the B737 and DC9 were always 2 pilot airplanes....

ALPA wanted the rule that any plane over 80K gross had to have a flight engineer. They wanted to enforce the rule and have a pilot sit there and pick his nose and PAY DUES!

A350

I've seen plenty of people do that in the left seat!

 

[Speedtape]

Wein went on strike over the 3rd pilot position on the 737. ALPA national policy at the time was turbo-jets had a 3rd pilot. Delta MEC agreed with management to fly the 9 with two pilots. As I recall American dropped out of ALPA in about '64 over an ALPA sympathy stirke with the Engineer's union when the majors wanted FE's to have pilot liscences.

Was there a flight engineer on the Convair 880 that Delta flew?

Who let camel's nose in the tent on RJ's?

 

[JohnnyP]

......

Was there a flight engineer on the Convair 880 that Delta flew?

Yes there was. My father flew the CV880 @ DAL and mentioned there was a flight engineer spot. The way he spoke of it, it seemed to be sort of an afterthought, but a guy was in the seat nonetheless.