SkyWest Staffing Problem

[Eric]

Well, the only thing I'm not happy with at SkyWest is the schedule. I'm sure I'm not the only one (speaking for the FOs)

What can we do about it? How can we light a fire under mgmt to staff this place?

Is it their M.O. to run it as lean as possible to boost margins?

Sked Plus isn't the anwer. The red arrows prove that.

SAPA isn't going to save us.

Is ALPA the answer? I was anti ALPA when I first came here, but I'm slightly on the pro side now. I came from an ALPA carrier if that matters.

If anyone here has experience w/ ALPA and thinks voting them in could improve my schedule, let me know here or PM me.

Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of insanity. At least ALPA would be a change and a chance.

 

[Flyby1206]

Sorry to say that just about every regional carrier is having problems staffing their flying. I honestly cant think of anyone who is filling classes and considered "adequately staffed." Union or not, that wont change your staffing issue. Skywest has very short upgrades, so I would think they should have the least problem filling classes. It all comes down to people not deciding to become pilots anymore. The enrollment is dropping in FBOs, flight schools, aviation universities. Not much can be done immediately to change this, but wages need to be increased at all ends of the airline payscales to attract people to the profession once again.

 

[jea]

The only thing alpa is good for is the random free lunch you find in the crew room... if they are voted in that will be gone plus 2% vote no and get free lunch!

 

[SkyNation]

Is ALPA the answer?

NO.

signed,
Former ALPA represented regional pilot

 

[FL990]

ALPA is not the perfect answer...but it is the best one. At least with ALPA, you have guarantees and protections with a contract. I have heard rumors (granted, they may be false) that SKW guys are being taken down to 8 days off in some cases. This would NEVER happen with an ALPA contract.

As I said, ALPA is very flawed but it is better than nothing at all.

 

[BoilerUP]

Parings are built by the company (any company) in a balance to minimize cost and comply with work rules while covering all the available flying with the available number of pilots. The fewer available pilots to fly the schedule, the worse the parings will be.

Work rules and contractual language go a long way into compelling the company to build parings a certain way...but ALPA (or any other union) cannot waive a magic wand to "fix" your parings. The only way that will happen is with proper staffing AND a management commitment to spend a little extra money to ensure crewmember morale.

 

[John Pennekamp]

ALPA is no silver bullet, but you're better off with the protection a union (any union) can provide. They give you the power to say no, and they force the company to honor an agreement.

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

What I have heard...

Skywest just made an honest miscalculation. They hired a bunch of people months ago and dumped them in a pool. Then they found out they weren't UPS. They called poolies for classes and 3 out of 4 guys had already taken a job elsewhere. And now they realize people are not lining up to start at 16K. My guess is they'll soon go the new-hire bonu$ route (at least a bonus to get to parity with higher starting wages elsewhere). A contract is good for setting penalties for low staffing, but (here at XJT at least) the compensation shows up much after all the junior manning happens. For example, if we can prove less than 10% reserve staffing for a given month in a sub-base, then the pilots in that sub-base are entitled to an extra vacation day for NEXT year.

 

[pilotmyf]

Skywest is not perfect?
Stop the press!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Coloaviator]

My schedule is fine for October. I got 14 days off with 90 hours of credit. I also got weekends off. With that being said we are definitely short handed.

 

[Eric]

Coloaviator, I'm glad that you are happy with your schedule, but not all of us want to fly 90 credit hours.

I would prefer more in the range of 15 - 16 days off, and would be willing to let the credit hours go down to 75-80.

I haven't had more than 13 days off in a month, and that was an exception. It is usually 12 or less as a line holder with my seniority.

Not only that, but PBS PNs or CNs me just about every month right on the specific days that I requested off. Kind of hard to make plans and keep significant others happy when that happens.

Great airline if you want to fly a lot and make money, but not much for schedule control or quality of life.

 

[SkyNation]

Eric

what is your seniority? how long did you think it would take you to hold 15-16 days off per month when you accepted the job?

 

[EBE]

Great airline if you want to fly a lot and make money, but not much for schedule control or quality of life.

What you said after the "but" in your sentence seems accurate. The first part of your sentence is becoming less and less the case. I'm sure you've noticed the increase in low credit 4 days. 16 credit four days don't make me think I'm at a "great airline" or making "a lot of money." Do they you? How many 16 credit four days would it take to make a lot of money?

 

[Eric]

SkyNation. I've been here a year or so. I had no expectation for how long it would take to hold 15-16 days off, but I assumed someday it would be possible. Now, I'm wondering if it is even possible.

I left my other regional carrier w/ 2 years seniority and was holding the 3 on 4 off schedule previously mentioned.

This is part of the problem with PBS, there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Without asking around, you have no idea what kind of schedule you will eventually be able to hold, nor when.

I quiz most of the FOs I run into to see what kind of schedule they are holding, and the complaints don't stop even with 3 year FOs. When I say complaints, I'm specifically referring to those who want more time off.

SkyWest is great if you want to work all the time, and time building or money is your goal, but for those who want more time off, currently, this isn't the place to be.

I ask myself if I think it will change, and I ask others if it was ever different. I've concluded that we have been better staffed, even over staffed in the past which allowed more flexible schedules, but that SGU is so schrewd with money, that they would prefer it to be run as it is now.

ASA seemed to have about half of the lines w/ 3 day trips and half with 4 day or back to back 2 days. Why can't SkyWest do this? Southwest's 3 day parings are worth more than our 4 day pairings. The company's answer is that our schedules are at the whim of our major partners, but I have to believe that properly motivated, our pairings could be improved.

 

[Eric]

EBE. 16 hour 4 days are not cool at all, but I've never had one. The 4 days I've seen have been mostly 18-21. Granted, that isn't great, but my make good money comment was compared to my last regional. With the min value of a day, half credit value guarantee, performance/financial rewards, stock purchase, stock options, I make much better money here than at ASA.

Obviously one will never see the pay of a major at a regional, but I believe we could see quality of life if those who plan on hanging around would fight for it.

 

[SkyNation]

ASA seemed to have about half of the lines w/ 3 day trips and half with 4 day or back to back 2 days. Why can't SkyWest do this? Southwest's 3 day parings are worth more than our 4 day pairings.

Eric

many, many of us would prefer 2 days and locals. many prefer 3 days. I don't know of anyone except those who commute who actually want 4 day pairings. Those of us who do them do because it is either what our seniority will hold or we commute.

as your seniority gets better, your pairings will get better.

you can't compare us to Southwest, or UAL, DAL, FedEx for that matter. Better comparisons are made between our QOL, total pay, company health, etc. with other regionals.

you left ASA to come here, as did many others. Precious few (I don't know of any) FOs have left SkyWest for ASA-or any other regional.

why do you think that is?

if things were better at ASA under the 'protection' that ALPA provided, why did you leave?

SLC pairings for Oct. bid

Locals 320
2 days 306
3 days 153
4 days 827

average awarded credit for SLC CRJ FOs: 87:25

so, roughly half are 4 days, with the remaining half split between locals, 2 and 3 days. lots of variety, with what you can get dependent on your seniority and knowledge of PBS and how to use it effectively.

 

[Eric]

Sky, don't get me wrong, I like SkyWest and am happy to have the opportunity to work here. Everything is great, except the schedule.

Why can't I compare our schedules to Southwest or any other major? It is the same job, just with smaller airplanes to smaller destinations. I agree you probably couldn't compare compensation with a major partner because our smaller planes don't generate the revenue, but schedules are a different story. There is room for improvement, all it would take is for SkyWest guys to think outside the box.

What I'm getting at here is some folks at SkyWest don't know what they are missing in schedule potential. If you have never had it good, you don't know what you are missing.

Also, your metrics on Oct. flying are a little skewed. If you multiply each number of trips by their length, it would show a different story.

Locals 320 x 1 = 320
two days 306 x 2 = 612
3 days 153 x 3 = 459
4 days 827 x 4 = 3308

In my previous post, I was describing ASA's LINES not their pairings. Imagine half of the people at skywest being able to fly 3 on 4 off! Now were talking.

 

[jea]

Ive been here for just over a year and i can hold locals and 2 days.. usually I have 16 days off a month. For September I Buddy bid a junior captain and still got 14 days off. Granted I dont fly the Barbie jet- im not tht cool. but my QOL is unbeatable.. and yes ive been alpa represented before... no comparison.

 

[SkyNation]

but my QOL is unbeatable.. and yes ive been alpa represented before... no comparison.

I'll just beat all the whiners to the punch:

'well, you just haven't been here long enough to know better.'

'all you care about is yourself and your quick upgrade.'

'you don't have the big picture.'

and my favorite line of crap:

'wait 'til you try to interview at an ALPA major. They'll never take you!'

...yawn..........

 

[Eric]

Therin lies the difference and the problem. I don't fly the Bro. Jea, I'm happy you have a good qual of life.

Don't come to the jet if you want to keep that sched.

 

[jea]

Therin lies the difference and the problem. I don't fly the Bro. Jea, I'm happy you have a good qual of life.

Don't come to the jet if you want to keep that sched.

yeah sorry Eric... I knew the jet was short staffed coming in so I chose the Bro knowing the QOL would be better. The jet pays more- more want to fly it for that reason, the growth is in the rj side but QOL is on the bro side. i have become quite senior quite fast for my position and that is what I have hoped for. QOL for me is everything- equipment matters

 

[Splert]

The plan is to short staff.

It not poor planning; IT'S THE PLAN. It's has been the plan for over 4 PLUS years.

The fewer pilot covering a greater amount of flying builds upside into the margins.

You new guy/gals should listen to your CEO and CFO when he speaks during the quarterly conference call.

Stop listening to check airmen and others, EB of SAPA, who are used to pass the company talking points to the line pilot.

 

[Jmoney]

What goes around....

I'll just beat all the whiners to the punch:

'well, you just haven't been here long enough to know better.'

'all you care about is yourself and your quick upgrade.'

'you don't have the big picture.'

and my favorite line of crap:

'wait 'til you try to interview at an ALPA major. They'll never take you!'

...yawn..........

My point in dealing with idiots like you is simple: BAD JUJU You are happy to screw everyone else in the regional industry just waiting for the day when you can proudly join the ranks of some major where ALPA is suddenly OK.

You don't care how many others you screw at all the little regionals because "ALPA can't represent a regional properly." I posit that you are accumulating a lot of bad JUJU.

I am not saying that anyone here will care to figure out who your are and torpedo your interview. All I am saying is that you are sure accumulating a lot of bad JUJU and you had better hope that it doesn't come back to bite you before you get that big dream job!

-You may find yourself stuck at some regional for a long time-even the rest of your career, wishing you had been able to get that bar rised higher.

-As for Skywest people never having come to ASA....COMPLETE BS! I personally know of many who came from that place about 7 yrs ago, when ASA had all the growth and DAL supposedly had plans for us.

-You are a greedy self-serving toolbox!

 

[EBE]

Obviously one will never see the pay of a major at a regional, but I believe we could see quality of life if those who plan on hanging around would fight for it.

I completely agree

I'm not willing to settle for what we have and could possibly not have in the future. Are you?

I've done my research. I've looked at the pros and cons. I'm in support of ALPA at SkyWest. I don't see any other way to "fight for it."

 

[Splert]

I completely agree

It will never happen.

The news guys out number the senior. All the Jr. guy wants is an upgrade and a new jet and will sell their sister, mother and fellow crew member down the road to get the growth.

It's freaking sad.

Little does the new guy know is that he/she will probably be a regional 'nard' for the next decade and the cycle will repeat itself.

The new guy has it all figured out and the new senior guy (AKA the former new guy) is bitter and wants a union to fight for QOL.

 

[DX Rick]

Vote in ALPA and be sure to get all the 5-6 day trips you want.

 

[SkyNation]

since we're speaking in generalities, here goes.

the only guys who want a union are the ones who are pissed because they didn't/couldn't get hired at SWA, DAl, etc. and now they want to vent their anger. they figure the best way to do it is 'payback' for the company where they now will spend their careers.

bite the hand that feeds you, get pissed when it doesn't feed you what you feel like is enough, then get pissed and bite again.

sounds like a plan

 

[Fishpaw]

Originally Posted By DX Rick
Vote in ALPA and be sure to get all the 5-6 day trips you want.

Rick,
I know you personally and I've never thought of you as a negative guy. Where does all of this anger towards alpa come from?

p.s. congrats on the big day, I bet you guys had a blast

 

[BoilerUP]

since we're speaking in generalities, here goes.

the only guys who want a union are the ones who are pissed because they didn't/couldn't get hired at SWA, DAl, etc. and now they want to vent their anger. they figure the best way to do it is 'payback' for the company where they now will spend their careers.

bite the hand that feeds you, get pissed when it doesn't feed you what you feel like is enough, then get pissed and bite again.

sounds like a plan

I don't know anything about your company...but it seems reckless to make the assertion that the only pro-union folks at Skywest are the "loser lifers" that are "stuck".

 

[SkyNation]

I was mocking the previous poster for speaking in generalities.

only some of the pro-union folks fit that description, just like only some of those that don't support the drive here are spoiled little punks who just want to upgrade.

BTW, I plan on being a lifer here.