Delta vs FedEx

[ASA]

Seriously, here's my situation. I live just outside of NYC, currently commute to ATL for AirTran. Been here just over 2 years. Got an interview with Delta in a few weeks, but also probably will have one with FedEx when they start up again.

If you lived at one of Delta's bases (I might move to Atl or stay right here), how would you compare the two? I don't care about flying pax at all, BUT I'd like to maximize time at home, and even though I know FedEx has great schedules and great pay, it still seems you spend quite a bit of time away from home.

5 and 6 day pairings, etc. I could more easily see 1 trip to Europe and back per week, a 3-day trip, every week vs spending these huge blocks of time away, such as doing a 12-day intl trip with FedEx spending 72 hours at a hotel somewhere.

Looking for some guidance from those with experience on this. I know I should lean towards FedEx simply for more job security (considering I pass either interview), but just not sure. Thanks.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

My buddy at Fed Ex is on the 11 flies one 12 day trip a month. He is in the right seat and makes anywhere from 10-12K a month. Granted he is been there since 2000, but he likes the life.
That said. Go to DAL take a the job, and then if you want go to FedEx later. Come see what DAL has to offer, you may not want to leave. We do work a lot on the junior equipment, but the crews are great. remember that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. You never know what may happen with Fed Ex or DAL for that fact, but you do know one thing. You have an interview here, and THINK you may get one at Fed Ex.

 

[phishn@daves]

What's a bush in the hand worth?

 

[71KILO]

Go to Delta, junior base is NYC. You might be a line holder pretty darn quick.

 

[propjob27]

I'm with the poster who said "Go to Delta first".

Then, when/if the FedEX interview comes, and following that,when/IF you get hired, THEN you'll have a decision to make.

Right now you really don't. Your thread should be entiled Delta vs AirTran.

Who knows when we'll actually start interviewing over here again, you could have plenty of time to wait.

 

[Sinca3]

Fed Ex should start interviewing the end of first quarter ¨08. There might be a pretty good chance a new hire could be assigned to an over seas domicile. That would suck if you want to be home more (unless you move to your domicle) My buddy on the MD11 right seat with a 2004 hire date is sitting at home in S. Florida 18 days a month making over 100k a year.

Delta seems to be a good place to be in the near future...timing is everything! If you didn´t get NYC as a new hire I can almost guarantee you would get the award very soon, as very few want to live there. They are projected to grow over the next 5 years. The current concessionary contract is up for renegotiations in 2010 and I would expect to see some gains in pay for one.
Good Luck

 

[AAflyer]

Seriously, here's my situation. I live just outside of NYC, currently commute to ATL for AirTran. Been here just over 2 years. Got an interview with Delta in a few weeks, but also probably will have one with FedEx when they start up again.

If you lived at one of Delta's bases (I might move to Atl or stay right here), how would you compare the two? I don't care about flying pax at all, BUT I'd like to maximize time at home, and even though I know FedEx has great schedules and great pay, it still seems you spend quite a bit of time away from home.

5 and 6 day pairings, etc. I could more easily see 1 trip to Europe and back per week, a 3-day trip, every week vs spending these huge blocks of time away, such as doing a 12-day intl trip with FedEx spending 72 hours at a hotel somewhere.

Looking for some guidance from those with experience on this. I know I should lean towards FedEx simply for more job security (considering I pass either interview), but just not sure. Thanks.

ASA,

Go where YOU want to go. No one holds a crystal ball. As evident by what happened during 9/11. Look where people had been going, look at where people had left. Who knows what the future holds for ANY airline.

Look at where you want to live, what equiptment you want to fly, and the variety of flying the company offers.

In the end it is a personal choice, and you and your family's happiness.

Best Of Luck,

AAflyer

 

[GogglesPisano]

BUT I'd like to maximize time at home,

.

Then don't commute.

Living near NYC gives you a relatively unique advantage (85% of the NYC base commutes) in that reserve won't be too painful as long as you can get from your house to one of the 3 NYC airports in a "reasonable amount of time." NYC is the junior domicile. I am looking at holding a line at the 6-month mark in the 73n (I imagine it would be a lot sooner in the 88 and a lot longer in the ER.)

You will make more money and have more job security at FedEx. However, nothing is guaranteed, commuting sucks, and flying cargo is a whole different animal than flying pax (ie: it's not for everyone.)

 

[LIGHTDRIVER]

fedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedex
fedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedex
fedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedexfedex

 

[AlbieF15]

A big question next year for some guys will be:

Do I leave Delta/start my class at SWA OR do I go to FedEx and suck up the Hong Kong or Paris life for 3-5 years?

Historically, job security at the freight companies has been outstanding. Some guys were willing to pass industry leading contracts at UAL or DAL to come here. Then 9/11 happened, and we by default became not only the most secure, but the most lucrative job in airline aviation.

So what will the next 5 years bring? Open Skies might mean more competition for SWA and DAL, but it might mean more business, too. What happens when these companies get their new contracts? While dollar for dollar UPS or FDX beat DAL today, what will be the case in 2012 or 2015?

How important are passes to you and your family? I have arguable one of the best jobs in the industry, and I haven't never sweated a paycheck not clearing. I have a great Q of life. However, I know one Delta buddy who windsurfs with his family in Aruba almost every month. I bumped into another family on the way to Dubrovnik (sp?) for a vacation/tour about a month back. Logically--I will tell you I can pick up a trip or two and pay for tickets for my entire family. Practically I will tell you--we haven't done that yet (my bad!). My point is there are some perks to a legacy job that are nice, and while perhaps the money isn't as high (now) or as secure I doubt any of us got into this job just for the money.

So--imagine you are a SWA guy living in domicile humping it out but having fun, or a Delta 767 ER guy flying back and forth to Europe. Kim Daniels called and said "we want you here next month...", but she also advises the classes are being filled for Hong Kong. That means you can move over for first year pay + 2700 a month, and your next year you'll make 120 + 2700 extra month. You get some coach tickets home every six months but your family cannot just walk to the airport and travel. You are riding a bus (literally) 2-4 hours to start a trip in the middle of the night at CAN. You'll do this for 3 years minimum, then bid back to MEM when you can hold it and there is a vacancy bid. Plan on 4-5 years by the time you get your training letter. When you get back to MEM, you are the junior guy, so you will sit A reserve, or middle of the night reserve, for 15 or 19 days a month to make your guarantee.

So--what is my point? For some guys, FDX and all it offers will still be the primo choice. Foreign assignments may be looked at as either a great adventure or a chance to make a solid paycheck for a few years. (We've had some regional guys go VFR direct to Subic for this reason). On the other hand, if you are along in your life and have kids approaching high school, have ties to your community, family concerns due to health or custody issues--well--the foreign assignment makes FDX likely a tertiary choice behind some other companies.

So--back to your question--which one? Prepare for both. When you get the FDX invite--go. If you get hired there--assess. Where will I live? How much will I make? Am I willing to accept the tradeoffs?

My prediction is my great company is going to have a lot of great guys and gals go "hmmm--thanks--but I'll pass for now...." when they look at what they will be expected to do to join the team here. At least for a little while, we are going to be hiring a different demographic.

Good luck whatever you do....

 

[capt. megadeth]

Go to DAL and just forget about FedEx. My fiancee wants as little competition as possible.

Just kidding....well, not really....but seriously, I'd go to Delta, check it out and worry about FedEx IF you are hired.

 

[GogglesPisano]

As usual, nice post Albie.:beer:

 

[Goose17]

Funny you should ask...

Great post Albie...

I was on a crew bus for a rather lengthy ride to a far gate last night... I was talking with a 727 SO who stated it was his second tour as an SO on the Boeing... He went on to say he was with Delta in his previous life. I asked him how it was there and he said that it didn't even compare... There were so many quality of life issues that paled in comparision to FedEx that the list was long. He said, one for instance... he had a hard time bidding at FedEx when he first got here. He said something to the tune of he wasn't used to getting paid for time away vs. block hours. He said, the door had to be closed for the $ to start coming in at Delta.

We talked for a few minutes and he seemed to have a pretty good outlook on his future here at FedEx.

I would never "dis" someone else's airline, but he for one seemed to like FedEx over Delta.

Goose17

oh, also... the scedules, times, equipment, trip length, etc vary GREATLY at FedEx. Everyone seems to find something they like.

 

[say again]

I NEED a job!!

Seriously, go to Delta if you get hired. If and when FedEx calls for an interview, make your decision then. Dont pass an opportunity that you may regret later if FedEx doesnt happen to call. I made that mistake once (corporate gig), and will never let it happen again.

 

[MINIME]

Delta will get some or most of their money back, I predict. Fedex, well only one of the most sought after jobs by all of us.

Heck, go where you don't have to commute! Either way you'll be alright. Right General?

 

[On Your Six]

Flight attendents at FEDEX are hotter!!!!!!!!!!!! Those old bags at Delta need to go....

If you go to Delta you will likely be able to bid 767ER right off the bat (or soon thereafter) and fly international out of JFK as much as you like since you live in the area.

Get out of AirTrash - what they did to Lear 70 makes me SICK!!!!!

 

[General Lee]

Then don't commute.

Living near NYC gives you a relatively unique advantage (85% of the NYC base commutes) in that reserve won't be too painful as long as you can get from your house to one of the 3 NYC airports in a "reasonable amount of time." NYC is the junior domicile. I am looking at holding a line at the 6-month mark in the 73n (I imagine it would be a lot sooner in the 88 and a lot longer in the ER.)

You will make more money and have more job security at FedEx. However, nothing is guaranteed, commuting sucks, and flying cargo is a whole different animal than flying pax (ie: it's not for everyone.)

Most of the new 757ERs coming from AA will be going to the NYC ER base, so the 757/767ER base there will be junior too, and a line should be fairly quick to be had there in the near future. Also, rumor has it that we will add a 777 base to JFK to do Mumbai and Tokyo NRT (we did NRT with an MD11 and I think we are leasing the slot to someone else now). We would open JFK up as a 777 base as soon as we started the NRT service back up again supposedly. That would be a very junior 777 base too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Either choice would be great! Its like fretting over winning and having to choose a Benz or BMW.....

With that said.... anyone want to address the merger factor???

 

[puddlejumper101]

Either choice would be great! Its like fretting over winning and having to choose a Benz or BMW.....

With that said.... anyone want to address the merger factor???

except DAL is like the BMW that was a lemon out of the factory. Works great one day and the next, you are renting a car from enterprise called the neon cause the BMW pooped it again. Fedex and DAL are more like the Bentley vs. the old BMW that is rusted but has potential...but requires some major work.

 

[NCaviator]

From what I've heard it sounds like Hong Kong will be a junior domicle for new hires. For guys like myself who are 2-3 years from having 1000 PIC and have reservations about going to Hong Kong can we forget about ever going to Fedex?

What about the guys currently based in the PIs, will they go to China? Any predictions on how this will this will shake out?

I realize that this industry is constantly changing and once all the details are ironed out it may not be near as rough as it seems.

Thanks

 

[propjob27]

What about the guys currently based in the PIs, will they go to China? Any predictions on how this will this will shake out?
Thanks

I'd guess about half the SFS guys (40ish crews) will go to HKG. The other half will be mostly ANC, with a few to MEM.

That's just a guess.

 

[asaflyer]

Question

"Seriously, here's my situation. I live just outside of NYC, currently commute to ATL for AirTran. Been here just over 2 years."


How have you been here just over 2 years, when in Jan. '06 your post stated that you were "thinking about going to AirTran." Just wondering maybe the post dates are wrong or something. It's pretty easy to see the previous posts. I'm not trying to start anything I'm just wondering.

 

[Bluto]

Maybe he meant New York.

 

[stupidpilot]

If you get hired at FDX you could always pass up the upgrade to the right seat and stay sitting sideways until you could accrue enough seniority to guarantee a base in the US. Depending on how long they keep the 72 that is.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Excellent posts.

In the past I understood that FedEx would not hire from Delta, but that has been changed. Can anyone confirm?

 

[TheBaron]

If you get hired at FDX you could always pass up the upgrade to the right seat and stay sitting sideways until you could accrue enough seniority to guarantee a base in the US. Depending on how long they keep the 72 that is.

That's true provided your job offer isn't contingent upon you accepting a foreign duty assignment as a condition of employment. We had a lot of people that were offered jobs provided they took ANC for a base. I actually don't think they will need a purple nugget program to fill either CDG or HKG. As crappy as the LOA is, we have enough people that look at a 2 year gig in Paris as an adventure; there will be enough single guys wanting to go from 727 s/o to wide body f/o pay that HKG will even be filled...IMHO.

 

[TheBaron]

A big question next year for some guys will be:

Do I leave Delta/start my class at SWA OR do I go to FedEx and suck up the Hong Kong or Paris life for 3-5 years?

Historically, job security at the freight companies has been outstanding. Some guys were willing to pass industry leading contracts at UAL or DAL to come here. Then 9/11 happened, and we by default became not only the most secure, but the most lucrative job in airline aviation.

So what will the next 5 years bring? Open Skies might mean more competition for SWA and DAL, but it might mean more business, too. What happens when these companies get their new contracts? While dollar for dollar UPS or FDX beat DAL today, what will be the case in 2012 or 2015?

How important are passes to you and your family? I have arguable one of the best jobs in the industry, and I haven't never sweated a paycheck not clearing. I have a great Q of life. However, I know one Delta buddy who windsurfs with his family in Aruba almost every month. I bumped into another family on the way to Dubrovnik (sp?) for a vacation/tour about a month back. Logically--I will tell you I can pick up a trip or two and pay for tickets for my entire family. Practically I will tell you--we haven't done that yet (my bad!). My point is there are some perks to a legacy job that are nice, and while perhaps the money isn't as high (now) or as secure I doubt any of us got into this job just for the money.

So--imagine you are a SWA guy living in domicile humping it out but having fun, or a Delta 767 ER guy flying back and forth to Europe. Kim Daniels called and said "we want you here next month...", but she also advises the classes are being filled for Hong Kong. That means you can move over for first year pay + 2700 a month, and your next year you'll make 120 + 2700 extra month. You get some coach tickets home every six months but your family cannot just walk to the airport and travel. You are riding a bus (literally) 2-4 hours to start a trip in the middle of the night at CAN. You'll do this for 3 years minimum, then bid back to MEM when you can hold it and there is a vacancy bid. Plan on 4-5 years by the time you get your training letter. When you get back to MEM, you are the junior guy, so you will sit A reserve, or middle of the night reserve, for 15 or 19 days a month to make your guarantee.

So--what is my point? For some guys, FDX and all it offers will still be the primo choice. Foreign assignments may be looked at as either a great adventure or a chance to make a solid paycheck for a few years. (We've had some regional guys go VFR direct to Subic for this reason). On the other hand, if you are along in your life and have kids approaching high school, have ties to your community, family concerns due to health or custody issues--well--the foreign assignment makes FDX likely a tertiary choice behind some other companies.

So--back to your question--which one? Prepare for both. When you get the FDX invite--go. If you get hired there--assess. Where will I live? How much will I make? Am I willing to accept the tradeoffs?

My prediction is my great company is going to have a lot of great guys and gals go "hmmm--thanks--but I'll pass for now...." when they look at what they will be expected to do to join the team here. At least for a little while, we are going to be hiring a different demographic.

Good luck whatever you do....

Great post as usual but I will disagree with this one point. Delta canxed their training classes after July '01 and things were already headed down hill before 9/11. They just needed an excuse to furlough and Osama provided it. Pax carriers have always been very cyclic and most people that choose that route are going to be furloughed at some point during their career. One day they are desperate for bodies and the next they're kicking them back out on the street. If Delta doesn't merge, expect them to have pilots on furlough again within the next 6-8 years. My 1 3/4 cents.

 

[Truckdriver]

Go with the job that will allow you to not commute. All the money in the world won't make a company great if your commuting. Commuting turns a great job into a very crappy job. If you live in NYC right now and want to stay there, go to Delta.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Great post as usual but I will disagree with this one point. Delta canxed their training classes after July '01 and things were already headed down hill before 9/11. They just needed an excuse to furlough and Osama provided it. Pax carriers have always been very cyclic and most people that choose that route are going to be furloughed at some point during their career. One day they are desperate for bodies and the next they're kicking them back out on the street. If Delta doesn't merge, expect them to have pilots on furlough again within the next 6-8 years. My 1 3/4 cents.

9/11 was better than any catylist management could think of... the total industry change was going to happen regardless.... while management regrets 9/11, the leverage it gave was priceless...

 

[AV80R]

A big question next year for some guys will be:Do I leave Delta/start my class at SWA OR do I go to FedEx and suck up the Hong Kong or Paris life for 3-5 years?...Good luck whatever you do....

As always, Albie's advice is right on the money.
Maybe check with your family to see what they think will be best? I can see the stability and the benefit aspect of Fedex, but is Delta really that much better than AAI? After all, you said that you've been at AAI for two years so that means you're about a year from the left seat, correct? How will that and the overall benefits at AAI compare to Delta's? My reasoning is that since it'll take you much longer to upgrade at Delta than at AAI maybe you wouldn’t really gain that much?