Is Flexjet having a problem finding pilots?

[Pattern-Master]

I just saw an ad on Climbto350 for Flexjet first officers. I want to apply but I need to get my ATP first (written complete). We have Flex pilots on my flights all the time and they seem to like it better than airline flying.

 

[Av8tor]

They are having a hard time getting them, they are having a hard time keeping them.

 

[doylehargraves]

They've hired guys with just the ATP written.

 

[Club ORD FO]

whats make you think we are having a hard time keeping pilots? I dont think our attrition is higher than any other company out there. looking at how far I've moved up the seniority list, I'd say 8%-10% a year. Just a ballpark guess without busting out a caclulator. is that a lot? I dunno...

 

[jonjuan]

They've hired guys with just the ATP written.

Don't most regional F/Os just have the ATP written? You'd get the atp when going thru upgrade. Can't imagine all or even most of the Indy Air FOs, many with thousands of jet hours, had an ATP when they went to the fracs post furlough.

 

[Club ORD FO]

you're right, most regional folks had just the written, if even that. I went out and got my ATP just so I could apply to flexjet/netjets.

 

[Pattern-Master]

Did you take your ATP in a seminole or something else that's fairly cheap?

 

[Club ORD FO]

Yeah, I did "All ATPs". independence had a discount at the time... I forget the regular price

 

[fischman]

Yeah, I did "All ATPs". independence had a discount at the time... I forget the regular price

That's what I did as well. They do a good job.

 

[Photoflight]

I did mine at ATP in ADS last spring.

Complete blowoff...pay your money get your ticket.

Cost me 1500 i think for the flight....did the written VIA gliem.



As for FLEX they must be desperate cause they hired me!

But I've seen NJ with ads out for FO's as well so i wouldn't base it on that.

 

[CL300Pilot]

I would say that Flex and probably the others as well are having a hard time finding good quality pilots. Most the of the guys I have seen leave just don't want to work. As far as having a hard time keeping pilots, the same above goes as well. From an attrition stand point, it is running about 10% as ClubOrdFO stated. IMO

 

[On Your Six]

I would say that Flex and probably the others as well are having a hard time finding good quality pilots. Most the of the guys I have seen leave just don't want to work. As far as having a hard time keeping pilots, the same above goes as well. From an attrition stand point, it is running about 10% as ClubOrdFO stated. IMO

Where are the departing pilots going? 121, other fracs, part 91?

 

[haulingthemail]

My 2 cents worth, I believe this is the post 9/11 pilot shortage. People quit flying/training after 9/11 due to the fact at the time there were no jobs so no one got into it. Even ERU as a low enrollment now. So it's going to be a pilot market for the next sereval years to come. Every regional is having problems find folks. It will only get worse now that the majors are starting to hire again.

 

[Guitar Guy]

My 2 cents worth, I believe this is the post 9/11 pilot shortage. People quit flying/training after 9/11 due to the fact at the time there were no jobs so no one got into it. Even ERU as a low enrollment now. So it's going to be a pilot market for the next sereval years to come. Every regional is having problems find folks. It will only get worse now that the majors are starting to hire again.

That's probably part of it. But there are also other reasons such as low SIC pay, long waits for upgrade plus basing requirements at Flex and NJA. I think if the pay and basing issues can be addressed, you'll see more pilots trying Flex and NJA and staying employed there.

Hopefully all of this hoopla about supply-vs-demand actually is true for pilots...

 

[haulingthemail]

That's probably part of it. But there are also other reasons such as low SIC pay, long waits for upgrade plus basing requirements at Flex and NJA. I think if the pay and basing issues can be addressed, you'll see more pilots trying Flex and NJA and staying employed there.

Hopefully all of this hoopla about supply-vs-demand actually is true for pilots...

I don't think that is a problem at jut flex or nja. I think that is a problem across the board. First, regional pay is far less than flex and nja. Second, as far as basing issues, it's a fact of life, either you move to a base or commute. Can't really commute with Flex or nja so move. If you commute for a regional look now you have to live in a crash pad, and jumpseat to and from work. That life style sucks, been there done that and won't do it again unless that's the only job left out there.
So you have to make a choice in life on what you want to do. As far as upgrades, well pilots today think that, okay I've been here 2 weeks it's time for me to upgrade. Give me a break. Sit back and pay your dues for a change. That too brings me to my last point, paying your dues. You aren't going to start off making a 100 grand a year, you aren't gonig to get to live at home on the company's dime, and you aren't going to upgrade yesterday, so if you don't like the career path get out, nurses are in short demand too.
Have patiences and enjoy the ride. The money, and upgrades will happen, it's all about senority.

 

[NETFLIER]

attrition rate running in the 8-10% range would be great for flex, but its not. its in the 15%-20% and this comes from someone in training dept. It is a clear reflection on how bad the place is.

netjets and citation shares are running in the 1.5-2.0% rate.

flexjets offers you a great plane to fly, but not a great place to work. been der done dat.....

 

[GooseHZ]

Flops

FLOPS is somewhere between 35%-40% in attrition......think about that if you want to work here.

 

[haulingthemail]

attrition rate running in the 8-10% range would be great for flex, but its not. its in the 15%-20% and this comes from someone in training dept. It is a clear reflection on how bad the place is.

netjets and citation shares are running in the 1.5-2.0% rate.

flexjets offers you a great plane to fly, but not a great place to work. been der done dat.....

It's all of a matter of opinion.

 

[DirtyBeech]

15-20% attrition and yet the upgrade is 2+ years. Those numbers are incompatible given a 400+ pilot group.

 

[rjcap]

15-20% attrition and yet the upgrade is 2+ years. Those numbers are incompatible given a 400+ pilot group.

Actually R.H. is stating upgrade is at 1.5 yrs now.

Attrition is result of increased airline hiring and the fact that FO's can make significantly more money elsewhere. Why wait 8 yrs to get left seat in CL300 or 604?

 

[NETFLIER]

dont forget dirty, people can leave behind you and it still counts twords attrition. Listen its simple, they are a horrible company in business for themself and they dont care about you. they will never be more than 100-120 planes. they will cut you anytime business gets tough, and until you unionize you will never get the workrules and pay you deserve. I say this not being a union guy either. I am for the company in most instances, however i know the environment over there and if you contend its anything other than bad then you just havent touched other possibilities.

 

[rjcap]

dont forget dirty, people can leave behind you and it still counts twords attrition. Listen its simple, they are a horrible company in business for themself and they dont care about you. they will never be more than 100-120 planes. they will cut you anytime business gets tough, and until you unionize you will never get the workrules and pay you deserve. I say this not being a union guy either. I am for the company in most instances, however i know the environment over there and if you contend its anything other than bad then you just havent touched other possibilities.

OUCH !!!!

I have been here a short time but I haven't seen anything like what you are describing.

 

[300pilot]

Netflier is just running his mouth.... one who bad mouths another is just envious of them. Grass is Greeer theory? I have been with Flex for a long while and Love it here.... There will always be something to bitch about, this is a job!! But management takes care of its crewmembers.... Netjets care more about quantity...and how many pilots we have!! Let us only grow to 120 jets, because quality is what retains Owners, just ask those that left Netjets for the service offered at Flexjet.

 

[lawfly]

I don't think that is a problem at jut flex or nja. I think that is a problem across the board. First, regional pay is far less than flex and nja. Second, as far as basing issues, it's a fact of life, either you move to a base or commute. Can't really commute with Flex or nja so move.

Actually, all pilots at NJA "commute". The domicile is just a place where you get on an airliner to wherever your NJA aircraft is (could well be a thousand or two thousand miles away) and it's also where your potentially long airline trek home ends. In other words, you are a professional airline passenger a good part of the time, you are "commuting" a good part of the time, regardless.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Netflier is just running his mouth.... one who bad mouths another is just envious of them. Grass is Greeer theory? I have been with Flex for a long while and Love it here.... There will always be something to bitch about, this is a job!! But management takes care of its crewmembers.... Netjets care more about quantity...and how many pilots we have!! Let us only grow to 120 jets, because quality is what retains Owners, just ask those that left Netjets for the service offered at Flexjet.

Agree with the running mouth comment. No matter where you work there will be guys who hate it, love it, or are somewhere in between. And ALL companies are in business for themselves. To say otherwise is beyond stupid.

Flex could be better. I'd like to see our pay and bennies be brought in line with NJ's and CS's. I'd like to order my food instead of suffering whatever crap Scarechef sends me for lunch. However, it wasn't so long ago that NJ's pilots were wishing they had our payscale, and much of what I'd like to see happen at Flex is well on it's way.

I find it interesting that those who continually run down my company are usually of the union variety. I sometimes think they only want us to unionize so that they can play one company against the other in bidding wars over our services. That worked wonders for the airlines didn't it?

How 'bout you be happy with your job, and if I'm happy with mine then let me be.

Oh yeah, the business about 1.5 year upgrades is questionable at best, as is any info garnered from the experts at our training center.

 

[CL300Pilot]

I doubt this info is coming from the training center. Maybe after one of the lunches with RH but not a training center guy coming up with this on his own. As far as upgrades, it is running just under 2 years, but that is sure to change as well. You just never know in this business.

 

[fischman]

Netflier is just running his mouth.... one who bad mouths another is just envious of them. Grass is Greeer theory? I have been with Flex for a long while and Love it here.... There will always be something to bitch about, this is a job!! But management takes care of its crewmembers.... Netjets care more about quantity...and how many pilots we have!! Let us only grow to 120 jets, because quality is what retains Owners, just ask those that left Netjets for the service offered at Flexjet.

Grass is greener huh?

We have plenty of former Flex owners flying QS tails as well my friend...

If you want to get into a pissing match of "my company is better than your company" then let me throw this out at you. If the "quality," as you call it, at NetJets is SOOO bad, why do we own more than 70% of the market share? It is the brand. People brag to their friends about all the great experiences they have flying with our crews, on our planes, that we are being forced to grow at exponential rates.

Sounds to me that the quality at NetJets is exceptional.

Our passengers do not buy into our respective programs just to get from A to B. They want the prestige of flying on our planes. They want the first class service we ALL provide whether it be NJA, Flex, CS, FLOPS, etc...

Disclaimer: This post is not intended as "we are better than you"

 

[hammer2]

I'm glad I have never started the "Flex being better than NJA" conversation.

 

[300pilot]

Ohhh the prestige of flying on a Citation!! OR better yet a luxurious Beechjet!! Sign me up...

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

"Ohhh the prestige of flying" on a Falcon 2000, or a Falcon 7X, or a Gulfstream 450/550 or a BBJ.

Wait, I thought it WAS prestigious to fly on something like a BBJ/Gulfstream/Big Falcon, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Most people can't even afford to fly on a jet of ANY, size, so yes, it IS prestigious to fly on ANY jet, not to mention a large, expensive one, like NetJets has.

I've also heard that Flex is getting the Global Express.

cliff
YIP