Safety of regionals

[great cornholio]

I think Papps is onto something we all realize deep down. Staffing, hours flown and general frustration all impact the safety culture. The question is, is it enough of an impact to be so detrimental to safety that an accident is likely to occur?

TSA's upgrade requirements just went down to ATP mins also. With the new hires we are getting now the total time in the cockpit could be as low as 1700 combined. To me that seems a bit scarey. Plus since we only have the 145 we don't technically have "green on green" any more because all of the capts have 75 hours in the plane as FO's. So in theory it could be both guys first flight off of IOE.

Is this enough to cause a crash? I hope not, but I wouldnt be surprised if a RJ crashes this winter. This didnt used to be an issue for a few reasons. The first is that the 200 hour new hires where few and far between, but are now getting more and more common. The other reason was that most guys in the left seat and hundreds or even thousands of hours in the left seat of that plane. And with the slow upgrade rate guys with less than a few hundred hours in the left seat were few and far between. So it was slim that a 200 hour FO would be paired with a new Capt. Now Capts are leaving in big numbers so the green capts are more and more common and the chance that a 200 hour guy will get paired up with a green capt are pretty good right now. Like I said I hope this isnt enough to cause a crash, but it seems to me like it more than likely will. Although we all know nothing will happen (FAA rule change wise) until we kill enough pax to make it worth their while.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

The NTSB will never cite "lack of experience" as a probable cause or even a casual factor. If the crew meets the minimums set by the FAA and the airline, it would be treated as any 20,000-hour crew having a wreck. Yes, folks, the regionals are in the armpit of aviation.

 

[Papps]

The NTSB will never cite "lack of experience" as a probable cause or even a casual factor. If the crew meets the minimums set by the FAA and the airline, it would be treated as any 20,000-hour crew having a wreck. Yes, folks, the regionals are in the armpit of aviation.

Yeah its funny how many factors can be hidden behind "Pilot Error".

You can just take fatigue,lack of pilot experience,communication problems,the mental state of the crews (thats right the FAA offers little or no psychological screening, so we have depressed pilots running around, oh yeah you cant treat those guys with any medicine made after the 19th century. Then you just ball all that up and throw it in the "pilot error" wastebasket.

 

[T-prop]

At my last airline, FAA granted waivers for:

-green on green
-reduced IOE
-consolidation

FAA and company also approved a very reduced training program which consisted of:

- 8 days of systems (12 being the norm)
- 5 hrs of Cockpit Systems integration (16 being the norm)
- 7 sim sessions including checkride and LOFT (10 being the norm)

Other pertinent information:
- Chief Pilot was not typed in DHC8 and was completely and utterly useless when it came to operational and safety concerns regarding procedures.
- Company never before had operated the specific fleet type (DHC8-100).
- With few exceptions, all pilots were new-hires AND were new to DHC8
- Fleet averaged 40,000 hrs and were recently brought out of "retirement."
- No two aircraft were the same when it came to mods and other nuances
- Operated in the world's busiest airspace w/o FMS
- Contract Mx never received formal training on the fleet. (ex. lead mechanic did not know what an oil/fuel heat exchanger was). This contributed to numerous emergencies, and countless RTG's due to improper servicing and mx.
- Handful of street captains had no crew and/or turbine time.
- Company badgered ATP qualified new-hires into becoming captains. Many of which had never flown anything larger than a Seminole.

First flight off IOE first officer and Embry Riddle grad said to me, "Wow! this is the hardest IFR I have ever flown in."

It is amazing they haven't lost one yet... last flight is scheduled in Aug.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

if the airlines say the min times are 2500 or 3000 hours for an upgrade thats fine lets leave them there, and cancel flights as nessasary for lack of crews. Shouldn't we hold the safety

 

[Mike man]

At my last airline, FAA granted waivers for:

-green on green
-reduced IOE
-consolidation

Green on green must be, and only is, exempted for new equipment...i.e. the initial cadre.

What exactly was the reduced IOE schedule, and who was it waived for?

Plus what is consolidation?

 

[tyuwerty]

Reduced IOE is for pilots with a previous type on an aircraft in the same group.

Extension of the consolidation of skills requirement from 120 days to 150 days if the 100 hours was not completed in time. (might be 100 days to 130) I can't really remember and don't feel like looking it up.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

if the airlines say the min times are 2500 or 3000 hours for an upgrade thats fine lets leave them there, and cancel flights as nessasary for lack of crews. Shouldn't we hold the safety standards that we have. Instead of lowering the for economic reasons

Hey, pull your head out of the sand!

 

[belchfire]

It's only a matter of time before some green FO gets one of these RJ's so far outta whack that Chuck Yeager would have a hard time getting it back...it happened to crews that were highly experienced when jets were new. Now we have relatively inexperienced pilots going from Senecas to RJ's. It's a simular scenario.

 

[Papps]

Hey, pull your head out of the sand!

I see where your going with that, but a 1500 hour captain (where 500 or 1000 of that is piston single or twin time) pared with a 300 hour F/O (where 250 of that is piston single or twin time) is a bad idea. Im not a safety Nazi, but that seems bad.