ASA 200/25? Nice!

[shamrock]

"Announcing a hiring agreement between Atlantic Southeast Airlines and Aviation Atlanta Inc. for students that complete the instructor training and work as an instructor for an agreed upon period of time.


July 27, 2007
Aviation Atlanta Inc. and Atlantic Southeast Airlines, a Delta Connection Carrier, have signed a letter of agreement to interview Aviation Atlanta students who meet the following requirements:

FAA First Class Medical
Commercial Certificate
Instrument and Multi-Engine Ratings
Certified Flight Instructor Certificate
Total Flight Hours: 200
Multi-Engine Hours: 25

An applicant will be required to have a letter of recommendation from Aviation Atlanta Inc, and have completed all or most of his or her training at Aviation Atlanta.
ASA will interview and, if the applicant is successful, will make a conditional offer of employment. For further details, please consult with an Aviation Atlanta representative."

I guess this isn't much different from the FlightSafety program, but it's still funny how much of a hole ASA has dug themselves into.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I don't want to fly with these guys. Can I put that in my bid preference?

 

[dueguard1]

Ol' Uncle Phil....still teasin'um and greasin' um up at PDK I see!!!

 

[Smacktard]

Aviation Atlanta Inc. and Atlantic Southeast Airlines, a Delta Connection Carrier, have signed a letter of agreement to interview Aviation Atlanta students who meet the following requirements:

FAA First Class Medical
Commercial Certificate
Instrument and Multi-Engine Ratings
Certified Flight Instructor Certificate
Total Flight Hours: 200
Multi-Engine Hours: 25

I'd love to hear the line of BS they sell some poor guy on this. How exactly do they get all those certificates with just 200 hours of flight time?

 

[ASApuppy]

of course, the guarantee is only for an interview. I know we are in a bad way for pilots, but come one. We tried this before several years ago with some outfit in FL (not FSI). In my class, have of those guys from that program were never recommended for the checkride and let go. With the antics of IOE these days, I would bet less than 1 in 20 grads of this program would ever see the line at ASA.

 

[surfbas]

you can do it at a 141 approved school

 

[fly_lanai]

You can do it at a part 142 school!

 

[shamrock]

Can I get a 143?

 

[ASA_Willy]

"uno, dos, trece, catorce" back at ya

 

[shamrock]

"uno, dos, trece, catorce" back at ya

:beer:

 

[norskman2]

Can I get a 143?

220. 221. Whatever it takes.

 

[Jmoney]

Bonuses!

I wonder if these guys are getting a signing bonus these days? I know-low time, etc, etc., but wouldn't you poop your pants if someone had offered you a job at 200/25 flying a damn jet?
I am just thinking that if these guys are getting signing bonuses as well (as I have heard rumors of,) that is incredible! They may be unsafe monkeys, but damn, they are lucky to have the shot with pretty much no experience-and to have a bonus on top of that! WOW! Many of us had to pay for our training, and some didn't even get the job after shelling out all the bucks.

-Fortunes change fast.....

 

[bailout]

Shamrock, looks like you might be earning your stripe on this deal,.

geez,.. 200/25?

 

[DrunkIrishman]

It actually looks like these guys are required to have 200/25 to interview for the CFI job. Then, they get the interview with ASA...they have to flight instruct for probably 6-12 months before they can leave for ASA. They will get nearly 1,000 tt in that period. What is wrong with that? Sounds more qualified than a 500 "bridge" student.

 

[goahead]

Welcome to ASA where every CA is a AZZHOLE when you have less than 500 hrs including myself.
Just learn to talk on the radios professionally and lose the white sunglasses.

 

[dueguard1]

I wonder if these guys are getting a signing bonus these days? I know-low time, etc, etc., but wouldn't you poop your pants if someone had offered you a job at 200/25 flying a damn jet?
I am just thinking that if these guys are getting signing bonuses as well (as I have heard rumors of,) that is incredible! They may be unsafe monkeys, but damn, they are lucky to have the shot with pretty much no experience-and to have a bonus on top of that! WOW! Many of us had to pay for our training, and some didn't even get the job after shelling out all the bucks.

-Fortunes change fast.....

I still don't grasp the whole idea of flight time with most people on this board.......Truth be told there's probably some 22 year-old kid in Iraq with the same amount of flightime flying F-16's or F-22's and nobody on this board is having an ass wiping hissy-fit over that....Military Pilots leave UPT with barely 300 Hrs if that....My point is it's all about ability not flightime....Do you seriously mean to tell me a year or two of extra chandelles and lazy eights, (or my personal favorite Slow Flight) will make someone that much better for line flying a CRJ...GET REAL!!!

Oh and the European students leave the US with a wet Comm-Muti and head back to their Country and Fly an Airbus....Once again ABILITY not FLIGHTIME is what is significant!!!!!!

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Those low-time military folks you talk of have been hand selected by boards and put through training leagues above anything ol' aviation atlanta could conjure up.

Secondly, the European system maintains exclusivity by implementing a rigorous theoretical knowledge standard which weeds out dummies and those only interested in wearing a uniform and pressing flashing switchlights. Here in the US, anyone with a pulse can get through the FAA process. Anyone. The other systems you mention are not in the same league as ours. That is a fact.

 

[HarryParatestes]

Those low-time military folks you talk of have been hand selected by boards and put through training leagues above anything ol' aviation atlanta could conjure up.

Secondly, the European system maintains exclusivity by implementing a rigorous theoretical knowledge standard which weeds out dummies and those only interested in wearing a uniform and pressing flashing switchlights. Here in the US, anyone with a pulse can get through the FAA process. Anyone. The other systems you mention are not in the same league as ours. That is a fact.

Same type of board their dad or uncle chairs. Same type of board you'll go through at DAL if your dad or uncle is/was a DAL pilot.

That explains why so many Europeans are flying here. Or is it that the Fee based European system is so damned expensive that the free based US system draws them.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

It actually looks like these guys are required to have 200/25 to interview for the CFI job. Then, they get the interview with ASA...they have to flight instruct for probably 6-12 months before they can leave for ASA. They will get nearly 1,000 tt in that period. What is wrong with that? Sounds more qualified than a 500 "bridge" student.

They can come to Pinnacle when they get to 250TT.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I still don't grasp the whole idea of flight time with most people on this board.......Truth be told there's probably some 22 year-old kid in Iraq with the same amount of flightime flying F-16's or F-22's and nobody on this board is having an ass wiping hissy-fit over that....Military Pilots leave UPT with barely 300 Hrs if that....My point is it's all about ability not flightime....Do you seriously mean to tell me a year or two of extra chandelles and lazy eights, (or my personal favorite Slow Flight) will make someone that much better for line flying a CRJ...GET REAL!!!

Oh and the European students leave the US with a wet Comm-Muti and head back to their Country and Fly an Airbus....Once again ABILITY not FLIGHTIME is what is significant!!!!!!

There is a difference between a fighter pilot that has gone through an extensive selection, testing, and training process and some chump that took out a $100,000 loan to get an "airline job". The fighter pilot would not have made it to 300 hours without being able to talk on the radios, land on centerline, or accomplish basic airmanship.

Could you even pass the European medical? It is several days long. When you go back to the Airbus, you are a switch bitch. Do you think you get to fly right away? Could you pass the series of written tests to get the frozen ATP-L?

It is not the chandelle or the lazy 8 that makes you a better pilot. It is the process of the decision making and experience gained getting to that point. At 300 hours, how many go/no go decisions have you made? How much weather have you seen? Have you had anyone scare you in an airplane? Have you made any wrong decisions that you were able to learn from and apply to a similar situation at a later time?

If you don't want to do slow flight, then go fly boxes at night for a few months. Some single pilot 135 will do you good.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Landing on centerline? Crosswind correction? Those are words of a bygone era. I can't remember the last time that happened while on FD2.

 

[crashpad]

Landing on centerline? Crosswind correction? Those are words of a bygone era. I can't remember the last time that happened while on FD2.

The lower standards have reached all levels. I never know what kind of co-pilot I'm getting from one day to the next. Most are good, but once in awhile I just know the work load will be tripled....and of course, they feel they've earned it because of their extensive 5 years experience in aviation.
5 years to get to a major....can you believe it!

 

[bailey3083]

I still don't grasp the whole idea of flight time with most people on this board.......Truth be told there's probably some 22 year-old kid in Iraq with the same amount of flightime flying F-16's or F-22's and nobody on this board is having an ass wiping hissy-fit over that....Military Pilots leave UPT with barely 300 Hrs if that....My point is it's all about ability not flightime....Do you seriously mean to tell me a year or two of extra chandelles and lazy eights, (or my personal favorite Slow Flight) will make someone that much better for line flying a CRJ...GET REAL!!!

Oh and the European students leave the US with a wet Comm-Muti and head back to their Country and Fly an Airbus....Once again ABILITY not FLIGHTIME is what is significant!!!!!!

Um how about a no on that one. Most guys who are flying in Iraq are between 28 and 33. At 22 in the military you are just finishing college and heading off to OCS. Once you get done with that you usually fly a desk for 2 more years before you get to go train in C172. If you are lucky you are a fighter jock by the time you are 27.
The people who are sent over here to train for the European airlines go home and fly right seat with very SENIOR Capts for a long time. Also they rarely fly the plane.
So the problem is 1) you get a kid with 400 hours and is paired with a Capt who barely met mins and we get another Dude Lets go to 410! 2) Some of us here paid our freakin dues taking loans out, flying freight, flight instructing for YEARS to get where we are while the new kids come out of flight school and EXPECT it. 3) Flight time=EXPERIENCE! Ability is nothing more then luck and sooner or later that ability runs out while Experience keeps you alive.


Bailey

 

[~~~^~~~]

Regardless of your side in the "250 hour qualified pilot" debate, ASA for years depended on the professionalism and stick skills of their line pilots to keep the entire Company going for years. At ASA pilots do not have the kind of support from dispatch, maintenance, or Sr. management, that allows them the luxury of distracting their attention for even a second when out flying the line.

ASA has had an ace up its sleeve in the form of an excellent training department who has successfully transformed the 250 hour wonders into pretty good line pilots. The rest of the process has been completed by experienced Captains who knew when to say "No" and bring things to a stop until safety was ensured.

The low time pilots do expose the airline and passengers to risk. It is a simple matter of experience. At best inexperience slows down the operation and makes it impossible to maintain schedule integrity. At its worst, you have a pilot learning on the job, with passengers along for the ride. LaGuardia with a 25 knot crosswind and 145 knot Vref is not a good place to get a person's first experience with braking action reports in the winter.

Bailey is correct. Flying frieght is probably the best preparation for flying passengers that there is. ASA actually has more going for it than most frieght operators and the pressures are the same. When you get a jet with passengers it should be a sort of graduation to a higher standard.

This is where ALPA should get involved in raising the standard or at least reminding pilots that THEY are responsible for the safety of the passengers.

 

[www.]

I still don't grasp the whole idea of flight time with most people on this board.......Truth be told there's probably some 22 year-old kid in Iraq with the same amount of flightime flying F-16's or F-22's and nobody on this board is having an ass wiping hissy-fit over that....Military Pilots leave UPT with barely 300 Hrs if that....My point is it's all about ability not flightime....Do you seriously mean to tell me a year or two of extra chandelles and lazy eights, (or my personal favorite Slow Flight) will make someone that much better for line flying a CRJ...GET REAL!!!

Oh and the European students leave the US with a wet Comm-Muti and head back to their Country and Fly an Airbus....Once again ABILITY not FLIGHTIME is what is significant!!!!!!

Big difference. The guy in Iraq is being shot at and the local 200 hr kid is worried when he's gonna get to sleep with a FA. It's called maturity and most but, not all, of the 200 hr local kids are lacking it.

And you talk about the European pilots. Yeah their parents kick their butt if they fail or screw up, in the states their parents just give them a new BMW and pay their rent in a bigger apt so they have some place to take the FAs.

 

[Diesel]

When you get a jet with passengers it should be a sort of graduation to a higher standard.

I'm sure the pax in the back of that rj are thrilled tommy, with the haircut and sexwax bumper sticker are thrilled.