Delta New Hire Class Breakdown?

[igneousy2]

From the DELTA contract:

"New-hires will be assigned seniority numbers on the basis of the last four digits of each individual's social security number. Individuals with the HIGHER numbers will be assigned the LOWEST seniority number".

I'll have to agree with the others. Low seniority number is good. And yes 1 is LOWER than 10.

I don't think this would be too difficult to fix - company agrees to flip it around - union agrees original assignments stand - company agrees to give a couple of "mutually agreeable" days off at some point in the future for the inconvienience of having to bid again.

later

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I totally understand that new hires are protected by the CBA. What I am saying is that it is the probationary year. If there is an area that gives the pilot limited negotiation ability, this is one of them. I am very interested to see how this pans out.

 

[AirMorgan]

So how has this seniority thing been done in the past?

 

[cptdon]

Average Flight times

What is the average flight times needed for Delta?

 

[waveflyer]

I totally understand that new hires are protected by the CBA. What I am saying is that it is the probationary year. If there is an area that gives the pilot limited negotiation ability, this is one of them. I am very interested to see how this pans out.

Not to be contentious- but this shouldn't fall in the new hires individual hands. The MEC should handle it. Protecting the bottom guy says a lot of things to management.

If we haven't figured out one thing from the last 5 years it should be this: Protecting every pilot down to the very last plug, is the only way to keep everyone from being screwed.

 

[instructordude]

Anyone have the class breakdown from what other airlines/military they came from?

Gen Lee PM'd these results to me:

4 Gulfstream Academy
4 Gojets
6 Comair
4 UAL
2 TabExpress
4 USAF(Fighters)

:laugh: :laugh:

 

[General Lee]

Gen Lee PM'd these results to me:

4 Gulfstream Academy
4 Gojets
6 Comair
4 UAL
2 TabExpress
4 USAF(Fighters)

:laugh: :laugh:

Yes, and they were the best we could get? Wow, all of the other ones wanted to go to LBB on Southwest.... And, it was 4 from TAB Express, 7 Comair RJDC supporters (including Dan Ford), and 3 Gulfstream Academy BE1900 FOs with 250 SIC turbine. They all are top notch, and will also be crossrated on the lav dumping trucks.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetjockey#1]

Back to the previous quesiton. If somebody is in class right now, would you let us know, how is management dealing with the seniority issue!!!

Thanks, some of us really want to know.

 

[NSDQ]

The seniority issue is a big deal. My line of thinking is the folks that are missassigned and based should at the very least be treated as TDY folks (company provided lodging, per diem, and positive space) while they are in the assigned base.

As to being on probation and not being able to file a grievance....You have until 120 days after leaving probation to file reference a seniority issue.

 

[instructordude]

Yes, and they were the best we could get? Wow, all of the other ones wanted to go to LBB on Southwest.... And, it was 4 from TAB Express, 7 Comair RJDC supporters (including Dan Ford), and 3 Gulfstream Academy BE1900 FOs with 250 SIC turbine. They all are top notch, and will also be crossrated on the lav dumping trucks.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Yeah baby!!:laugh: I heard some of the new hires were getting the Lav Dump Truck on the 777 in ATL. That one ususally goes very senior.:laugh: :laugh:

 

[General Lee]

The seniority issue is a big deal. My line of thinking is the folks that are missassigned and based should at the very least be treated as TDY folks (company provided lodging, per diem, and positive space) while they are in the assigned base.

As to being on probation and not being able to file a grievance....You have until 120 days after leaving probation to file reference a seniority issue.

Nah, I don't think that will happen. We have bids now so frequently that you can bid out of something fairly quick. I think they will correct the seniority numbers since that will make a bigger difference down the line, and then say a big "sorry." They aren't going to give TDYs or anything. I don't think they will remove anyone from current training either, that would cost money. Hey, at least you didn't have to go through the 727FE course.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Yeah baby!!:laugh: I heard some of the new hires were getting the Lav Dump Truck on the 777 in ATL. That one ususally goes very senior.:laugh: :laugh:

No, only senior guys like me get the 777 Lav truck. You new guys get the 767s coming in allnight from South America, allowing it to be ripe and steamy for you. Now that is a good morning wake up!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NSDQ]

Nah, I don't think that will happen. We have bids now so frequently that you can bid out of something fairly quick. I think they will correct the seniority numbers since that will make a bigger difference down the line, and then say a big "sorry." They aren't going to give TDYs or anything. I don't think they will remove anyone from current training either, that would cost money. Hey, at least you didn't have to go through the 727FE course.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

So their screw-up should cost me money, time commuting, and time away from family sitting reserve in NYC as opposed to at home................

 

[General Lee]

So their screw-up should cost me money, time commuting, and time away from family sitting reserve in NYC as opposed to at home................

Get used to it. Airline life aint always great. Overall you didn't get Guam based (at CAL) and your career at Delta has just begun. I was a 727FE in NYC for 6 months and that suked. If you don't like it you can quit. You weren't the only one this affected, so just move along and you can tell it to your FOs someday. The important thing here is that your seniority will be corrected, which is far more important down the road.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CAL EWR B737]

You will get an SIC type on the M88 or 737.
When you go to the 757/767, whether int'l or domestic, you will get the PIC type.

737

What is an SIC type? I thought all type ratings are PIC types? Why would you need a type in the MD88 do you use IRO's or Relief Pilots for international flights with over 8hrs flying per duty day?

 

[igneousy2]

What is an SIC type? I thought all type ratings are PIC types? Why would you need a type in the MD88 do you use IRO's or Relief Pilots for international flights with over 8hrs flying per duty day?

Nope - the FAA started issuing SIC types a couple of years ago. Some ICAO requirement. It was a big deal at American Eagle - they went and got everybody to put their type ratings on their certificates. I'm not sure what the administrative procedure is but anyone who is current on a type at a 121 can go and get it put on their certificates now. It was my understanding that both pilots had to be typed when you fly in other ICAO countries airspace...so the FAA came up with the SIC-type. They are even issuing certificates to Flight Attendants now...go figure.

Later

 

[igneousy2]

found this on-line.

The final rule requires pilots who
plan to fly outside U.S. airspace and
land in foreign countries to obtain the
SIC pilot type rating. We also
recommend having the SIC pilot type
rating when flying over or into airspace
controlled by a foreign civil aviation
authority that requires it. This would
include not only flights to foreign
destinations, but also flights where there
is the potential to land in a foreign
country (for example, a flight from
Newark, NJ to Anchorage, AK that
crosses Canadian airspace could result
in an emergency landing in Canada).

Here is the link to the entire document...

http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/sic/FAA-2004-19630_05-113.pdf

On my certificate it appears as a limitations...DC-9 type and under the limitations section..."DC-9 SIC privileges only"

Hope this help.s

Later

​

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Nope - the FAA started issuing SIC types a couple of years ago. Some ICAO requirement. It was a big deal at American Eagle - they went and got everybody to put their type ratings on their certificates. I'm not sure what the administrative procedure is but anyone who is current on a type at a 121 can go and get it put on their certificates now. It was my understanding that both pilots had to be typed when you fly in other ICAO countries airspace...so the FAA came up with the SIC-type. They are even issuing certificates to Flight Attendants now...go figure.

Later

Thanks for the info. I spent the first 12 years at CAL as an FO on the 727, A300, DC-10 and 747 and no type rating. Can I go to the feds and get one now if I can prove through CAL I flew those A/C?

 

[ugasucks]

Don't mind the sen. issue just hoping it gets fixed for us all. Would of had ATL but being based in NYC was great for three months. Great base, great flying and great crews. But if they fix it I will jump up to the front of the line for about 2yrs instead of being stuck at #3 or so It would be nice to get those good trips in 34yrs ahead of my classmates.

 

[retired guy]

So how has this seniority thing been done in the past?

For a long, long time (including when I was hired) senority was determined by when you were initally interviewed for a certain class.First interviewed, senior man...last interviewed, tail end charlie.We had a couple of guys in my class that walked into the employment office, and the first one,being a nice guy, opened the door for the other guy. That cost him a number on the list. In the mid 70`s (I think it was) it changed to oldest guy in the class was senior guy, youngest was last. Latest change is last 4 digits of SS number determines senority. I`m betting the EEOC had something to do with the latest change.

 

[cocknbull]

I don't see any reason Delta is going to change its policy. A change is an admission of guilt. There maybe some reason for the ambiguity; like highest describes seniority and not number or whatever. It could take sometime to clarify this. I wouldn't hold my breath.

PS. I had to plead the case for all of us with low SS numbers.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I don't see any reason Delta is going to change its policy. A change is an admission of guilt. There maybe some reason for the ambiguity; like highest describes seniority and not number or whatever. It could take sometime to clarify this. I wouldn't hold my breath.

PS. I had to plead the case for all of us with low SS numbers.

What are you trying to say? That they are going to leave it the way that it is and disregard the CBA, or change it and deal with the lawsuits from the people that were initially senior in each class.

 

[JOPILOT]

I get the feeling ACL's ss# is between 0000-5000?

Delta will change this as per the contract and I truely doubt there will be any lawsuits since you are at will right man?

Peace, JP

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Actually it would benefit someone like me. A lot. I am looking at it from the legal standpoint that DAL would.
I have a dog in this fight. I have called my reps and they are working the issue. That is all that I was told.
But basically it is way over my pay grade.

 

[JOPILOT]

Roger

 

[Sedona16]

What are you trying to say? That they are going to leave it the way that it is and disregard the CBA, or change it and deal with the lawsuits from the people that were initially senior in each class.

Or leave it the way it was for the first several classes knowing an even more potent lawsuit will be filed by those who were hurt by not following the established policy and proceedure. I would think it is in the companies best interest to make it right, right now. If they wait and one guy in class gets upgrade or equipment or base ahead of a guy that should have been senior, damages against the company could be levied each time this happens for the pilots whole career.

If there was any lawsuit potential for the now senior guys that would lose seniority it would be a one time deal and I'm not sure how much of a case they would have since they have already benefited from the mistake. Dissapointing yes, grounds for a lawsuit not so much.

Also keep in mind a precedent was just set when the jr guys in the last class got to re-bid now as being senior and the policy of highest last four of ss number making best seniority in class will again be used for all future classes.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree with all of it. I am guessing that they will make right on the seniority and keep everyone where they are. What they need to do is reconfigure the conversions of the first few class. It will affect a few by three to four months. Also there are some that would have been making flight pay for the last few months, but because of this have been still on training pay. It is not a lot, but first year any money is a big thing.
I am just surprised that they have not done something or said something about it. Basically the newest class rebid and everyone has gotten very quiet. I know that there are legal ramifications no matter what the decision is.

 

[Sedona16]

Just talked to a friend of mine at Delta who was affected by this. He called the Delta MEC and this is all being fixed as we speak. Crew resources will be contacting each pilot individualy affected by this. Pilots will be given their correct seniority number. If someone jr to them was awarded equipment/base etc before them they will be offered the same position/base/equipment as the person now jr to them.

 

[jetjockey#1]

Also keep in mind a precedent was just set when the jr guys in the last class got to re-bid now as being senior and the policy of highest last four of ss number making best seniority in class will again be used for all future classes.

Is this confirmed? highest SSN = lowest seniority number, did you hear this from a friend of a friend, or you being in class. I also have a dog in this fight. It would mean for me going from the top 3 to the bottom 3...

Thanks.

 

[AirMorgan]

Also keep in mind a precedent was just set when the jr guys in the last class got to re-bid now as being senior and the policy of highest last four of ss number making best seniority in class will again be used for all future classes.

Did they really get to re-bid? I heard they were going to but that was just a rumor. I haven't seen anything posted on this forum from anyone in the current class.