Jumpseat Etiquette (again)

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't suppose you could be modest or humble even if it was soley for your benefit.....

In addition if you read post #11 one can clearly see where you went on the offensive... here let me help...

A box of chocolates? I hope you're kidding. Just show common courtesy...say thanks for the ride and go to your seat. Jumpseating is not rocket science...don't dress like a buffoon nor act like a buffoon and you'll be fine. Even a thick skulled fighter guy can figure that sh*t out (i.e. myself). I can garauntee you chocolates are not required. If some dude brought me a box of chocolates I'd probably figure he's a complete flamer.

If you don't like the suggetion then leave your opinions to yourself. Then again this is a message board and all is fair game, so if you must reply then expect another. However, you failed to realize that your attitudes are offensive and took the citicizism quite personally. That says more of you....

J/S is not rocket science but it is not a benefit to be taken for granted. It must be protected.

In addition, you opened up the MIL/Fighter classification with the above bold and profile/avatar. You are Mr. Fighter Pilot who happens to fly a CAL Guppy, yet you don't realize you tell everyone you are....

Leave the competitive testosterone attitudes at the squadron. You need them there. However, we are all the same when Flying the Line... no one is better than the other... Hence the profession....

 

[RedDogC130]

Because it is a priviledge not a right. Many union volunteers have spent lots of personal time working to ensure the jumpseat is available for all pilots. Some pilot groups have spent negotiating captial to solidfy jumpseating into it being just a bit more than a priviledge...ergo a negotiated right.

Many of us need the jumpseat to get to work. We've spent allot of time getting CASS online. It can be taken away. And jumpseat agreements have been voided between pilot groups, it usually comes from arrogant pilots, MIL guys too, believe it or not, that cause a stink......

For example there was a MIL pilot who was working his CIV job and was jumpseating home. He was offered a beer by the FA. He used his combat air tactics training to "convince" himself to go for it....("the fighter pilot in me said go for it!") Not very bright.

There is a mindset amongst some that the MIL guys decide to fly for the airlines and think that jumpseating is just another entitlement or rightful perk (as they j/s to guard weekend.) It is attitudes like that...that result in others having to clean up someone elses mess. And it puts us on edge that the privledge will change for the worst...Are you one of them?

What is wrong with jumpseating to go do mil service?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What is wrong with jumpseating to go do mil service?

Nothing... that is what it is there for. The issue is the attitude that the j/s is an entitlement.. and to take for granted that many guys...(MIL guys included) that work hard to ensure the j/s is there.....

Some guys work to preserve it behind the scenes and while jumpseating... other guys just use it...

This isn't a MIL issue... it is an attitude issue... some guys just applied an extra helping of the MIL factor....

 

[Tejas-Jet]

On transcon or trans oceanic bring a box of chocolate for the cabin crew. They will be grateful and it will pay dividends....

My good looks/gift of gab has worked for me for many years.

 

[say again]

Hey as$hole, what's your problem? Does saying "use common sense and be friendly" make me own a BIG watch and a sunglass case (whatever the hell that means)? You're pathetic - again, I don't care what you did in your past flying, I just want to get home...like every other one of us. By the way, my BIG watch is a casio that's 3 years old.

And dude, you're not cracking me up - you're actually not funny in the least.

When I ride your jumpseat, I'll make sure I refrain from using my hands and talking about parking my Ninja.

Scrap

You sure are a defensive person, maybe some truth to what people say???:bawling: :beer:

 

[Scrapdog]

You sure are a defensive person, maybe some truth to what people say???:bawling: :beer:

Got any BIG watches for sale?

 

[Scrapdog]

I don't suppose you could be modest or humble even if it was soley for your benefit.....

In addition if you read post #11 one can clearly see where you went on the offensive... here let me help...



If you don't like the suggetion then leave your opinions to yourself. Then again this is a message board and all is fair game, so if you must reply then expect another. However, you failed to realize that your attitudes are offensive and took the citicizism quite personally. That says more of you....

J/S is not rocket science but it is not a benefit to be taken for granted. It must be protected.

In addition, you opened up the MIL/Fighter classification with the above bold and profile/avatar. You are Mr. Fighter Pilot who happens to fly a CAL Guppy, yet you don't realize you tell everyone you are....

Leave the competitive testosterone attitudes at the squadron. You need them there. However, we are all the same when Flying the Line... no one is better than the other... Hence the profession....

Rez - just to clarify, the "thick skulled fighter guy" moniker was making at joke at myself. Humor is hard to pass on the net.

And I apologize for my tirade earlier...it wasn't professional, so please accept my apology. As for the mil "not understanding how to jumpseat," etc...please get over it. Like you said, it's not rocket science - and doesn't require anything other than common sense and courtesy.

Cool? Cool.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

So, when Scrap is a guest at someone else's place for dinner, the rule might be:

1. Show up. "What's for dinner?"
2. Inhale dinner
3. Thanks for dinner, and bolt.

 

[Caveman]

Personally, I occassionally expose myself to the crew. On one hand, it shows how I can be vulnerable. On the other hand, some find it impressive.

The rest of the time, I open my wallet and just tell them to take what they think is fair.

I might write this stuff down in a book to help mil guys transition. Maybe they can make it part of TAP.

LOL! Great post!

 

[Scrapdog]

So, when Scrap is a guest at someone else's place for dinner, the rule might be:

1. Show up. "What's for dinner?"
2. Inhale dinner
3. Thanks for dinner, and bolt.

How hot is she?

 

[Mooseflyer]

Because it is a priviledge not a right. Many union volunteers have spent lots of personal time working to ensure the jumpseat is available for all pilots. Some pilot groups have spent negotiating captial to solidfy jumpseating into it being just a bit more than a priviledge...ergo a negotiated right.

Many of us need the jumpseat to get to work. We've spent allot of time getting CASS online. It can be taken away. And jumpseat agreements have been voided between pilot groups, it usually comes from arrogant pilots, MIL guys too, believe it or not, that cause a stink......

For example there was a MIL pilot who was working his CIV job and was jumpseating home. He was offered a beer by the FA. He used his combat air tactics training to "convince" himself to go for it....("the fighter pilot in me said go for it!") Not very bright.

There is a mindset amongst some that the MIL guys decide to fly for the airlines and think that jumpseating is just another entitlement or rightful perk (as they j/s to guard weekend.) It is attitudes like that...that result in others having to clean up someone elses mess. And it puts us on edge that the privledge will change for the worst...Are you one of them?

Rez,
I certainly appreciate your point re: the ground that has been covered to get us this priviledge. I commuted cross country, offline, with no CASS, for awhile and certainly could not have done it without help from my peers. I'm not advocating that I think we should consider jumpseating a "right", but I'm consistently amazed at the responses to these recurrent threads about the "proper" jumpseat procedures. I mean, whose a$$ are we supposed to be kissing? I feel that we, the crews, are all on the same team so to speak. Sure it may be nice to bring candy, it's nice to help the FAs with bags, etc, but in the end, does anyone really care if I take a seat which otherwise would have been empty? Wouldn't you, as the operating crew, WANT to help out one of your peers, even from another company, if given the opportunity? I've heard guys say "well, he didn't introduce himself to me, so I kicked his a$$ off!". WTF? Is it really that much of an ego trip for someone? You're going from A to B - one of your peers would like a ride and you're in a position to offer one - why would you not?

I hope to help you understand the military background with the following statements. You said that some Mil guys consider jumpseating a "right" as they go to to guard weekend. Well, in the military, jumpseating IS a right (almost). It's called Space-A. I would never consider leaving someone behind if I have room, and I don't base that decision on how well they kiss my a$$. 99% of the time, I don't even speak to the Space-A pax - they don't ask me for a ride at the beginning, and they typically don't say thanks when it's over. Doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[RogerMOSA]

So, when Scrap is a guest at someone else's place for dinner, the rule might be:

1. Show up. "What's for dinner?"
2. Inhale dinner
3. Thanks for dinner, and bolt.

Hugh! What's up man? You going to B-5? I hope you make it. I'm probably going to j/s down there, so I was reading up on how to conduct myself.....haha...

We'll import some LBFMs to sweeten the deal if you are on the fence.

 

[CHIEEEEFS]

I believe some are confusing the 'advice' to smooze FA's on long flights with the title of the thread regarding etiquitte.

And of course the new point of mil dudes not in form to request a jumpseat due to confusion with space-a.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I mean, whose a$$ are we supposed to be kissing?

This is where I think you miss the point. There is none of this going on... just a simple gesture of respect and gratitude for a free ride. No where else in the world can one show up last minute at a gate and get on a jet..for free....

but in the end, does anyone really care if I take a seat which otherwise would have been empty?

Unfortunately....some people do care... for quite a while flowback or unlimited jumpseating was a real issue. FA's and Gate Agents did not want multiple off line pilots Jumpseating in the cabin because they couldn't ride for free on thier own airline. Why should someone else? It taught us to be real careful and polite. One perceived faux pas and the gate agent wouldn't let you down to see the captain...

Wouldn't you, as the operating crew, WANT to help out one of your peers, even from another company, if given the opportunity?

Ever heard of a jumpseat war?

I've heard guys say "well, he didn't introduce himself to me, so I kicked his a$$ off!". WTF? Is it really that much of an ego trip for someone?

For some yes.... ergo the whim of the captain. Life is not fair.....

You're going from A to B - one of your peers would like a ride and you're in a position to offer one - why would you not?

I agree. And I would... and if I was disprescted and taken for granted I still let the guy ride but I'd let him know his behavior was unsat. How do you know that your behavior might not be offensive to another? You don't, so you go the extra mile....

The regional guys would always wonder when they'd get chided by the major guys simply for being a regional guy...

When 9/11 occured jumpseating was gone and saved within one conference call.

I will say that jumpseating has become less of a formality. It always used to be shirt and tie. I think during the BK era many of us calmed down with the formalities. We were getting hammered and we just wanted to get to work.. but I fear we should not make it too casual. It is the one last great perk of the job... Management can and has used it as a bargaining chip...

I find the jumpseat very valuable and I have seen the jumpseat benefit change from good to bad and back to good. Thus I appreciate what the benefit is....And I am willing to go above and beyond to protect it... but that is just me...

Carry on..... you're not getting kicked off the jumpseat so your M.O works....


These are just my opinion.

 

[freightdogfred]

Moose - best post on this thread yet. Amazing.

A simple gaze a both his and Moose's avatar and you understand why they just don't get it.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

If you exit the cabin normally, the crew will still be there for you to thank. If you wait till the end, the crew will be long gone AND you have to sit there while all of the pax thank you for the nice flight.

 

[Scrapdog]

A simple gaze a both his and Moose's avatar and you understand why they just don't get it.

Jesus, I thought this thing was dead. Ok, I'll bite, what don't I get? I don't get that you need to buy cookies or other deserts to ride a jumpseat? Bullsh*t. I have said over and over (ref my prior posts) that it takes common sense and courtesy - something you do in everyday life. That's all it takes to ride the jumpseat. I've done it a fair number of times so far without issues. I say "thanks for the ride" I shake the guys hand and I take my seat. So, because I fly a fighter, I don't get it huh? So, if that's so off base, please freightdogfred, enlighten me a little further.

 

[Deuce130]

I brought cookies one time. The first time I jumpseated. Haven't done it since. Instead, I introduce myself to the usually very busy captain, politely ask for a ride, show him my tickets, then get out of his way. I then politely tell the gate agents the CA said I was good to go, wait to board, introduce myself to the head FA, get in my seat, and make a small footprint. I wait til everyone gets off, I leave, thank everyone, go home.

Rez, you claim ALPA negotiated all this stuff for us. If so, then why do I need to bring gifts, chocolates, or cookies? If I politely ask for a ride and it's granted, then both the CA and I are simply going along with the intent of our ALPA negotiators. Done deal. I've rarely met one pilot in an airport who isn't in some kind of hurry. Stopping at the airport newsstand and shelling out 9.95$ for crappy cookies who most people will never eat anyway doesn't make much sense.

 

[say again]

Got any BIG watches for sale?

I think I may have a few in the attic.:laugh:

 

[Tanker Clown]

I guess it all depends on who you jumpseat with. If the CA is a mil guy, I usually give the secret hand shake and show him nude pictures of my wife. When the CA doesn't have a mil background I excuse myself to the lav and leave a Cleveland Steamer in the sink. That's my $.02.

I realize my actions are a tad childish, but so is this whole debate on the mil vs. civil jumpseating. So I guess what I'm saying is...maybe everyone deserves to see the nudies of my wife and a Cleveland Steamer in the sink.

 

[BVT94]

Jesus, I thought this thing was dead. Ok, I'll bite, what don't I get? I don't get that you need to buy cookies or other deserts to ride a jumpseat? Bullsh*t. I have said over and over (ref my prior posts) that it takes common sense and courtesy - something you do in everyday life. That's all it takes to ride the jumpseat. I've done it a fair number of times so far without issues. I say "thanks for the ride" I shake the guys hand and I take my seat. So, because I fly a fighter, I don't get it huh?

Continental has fighters?

 

[instructordude]

I guess it all depends on who you jumpseat with. If the CA is a mil guy, I usually give the secret hand shake and show him nude pictures of my wife. When the CA doesn't have a mil background I excuse myself to the lav and leave a Cleveland Steamer in the sink. That's my $.02.

I realize my actions are a tad childish, but so is this whole debate on the mil vs. civil jumpseating. So I guess what I'm saying is...maybe everyone deserves to see the nudies of my wife and a Cleveland Steamer in the sink.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

What if the guy is from CAL?

My technique for CAL is to thank him for the ride then I'll ask for his last name, cross reference it from the master scab list and if shows up I'll ask him point blank what happened in 83. It's actually quite fun sport even when he kicks you off the plane and you yell back "Dirty Scab" in front of the paxs!

 

[Tanker Clown]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

What if the guy is from CAL?

My technique for CAL is to thank him for the ride then I'll ask for his last name, cross reference it from the master scab list and if shows up I'll ask him point blank what happened in 83. It's actually quite fun sport even when he kicks you off the plane and you yell back "Dirty Scab" in front of the paxs!

Instructor Dude has a good point here. I don't think I would let a scab see the pics of my wife. But, '83 was a long time ago. I think I'd still give them the Steamer.

 

[Fred Rogers]

Personally, I occassionally expose myself to the crew. On one hand, it shows how I can be vulnerable. On the other hand, some find it impressive.

The rest of the time, I open my wallet and just tell them to take what they think is fair.

I might write this stuff down in a book to help mil guys transition. Maybe they can make it part of TAP.

I think that's a fantastic idea, some will be more impressed than others. As for using skills to impress fa's and what not....

I'm pretty good with a bo staff

seriously, there is a good article right on the front page of airlinepilotcentral.com about this very subject.

 

[Snapshot]

My technique for CAL is to thank him for the ride then I'll ask for his last name, cross reference it from the master scab list and if shows up I'll ask him point blank what happened in 83.

A GoJetter asking a Scab what happened in 83? Probably just looking for pointers.

It's actually quite fun sport even when he kicks you off the plane and you yell back "Dirty Scab" in front of the paxs!

You wish that's why you got denied jumpseats.

Hulas Blows Goats. Gojet gets sloppy seconds.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, you claim ALPA negotiated all this stuff for us. If so, then why do I need to bring gifts, chocolates, or cookies? If I politely ask for a ride and it's granted, then both the CA and I are simply going along with the intent of our ALPA negotiators. Done deal. I've rarely met one pilot in an airport who isn't in some kind of hurry. Stopping at the airport newsstand and shelling out 9.95$ for crappy cookies who most people will never eat anyway doesn't make much sense.

Agreed... !!

As I stated I only bring cookies on long haul flights...and that is my personal preference. Scrapdog and Moose have MO's that work for them...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I guess it all depends on who you jumpseat with. If the CA is a mil guy, I usually give the secret hand shake and show him nude pictures of my wife.

Pretty amatuer.....


If the CA is MIL then I show him pictures of his wife....

 

[Tanker Clown]

Agreed... !!

As I stated I only bring cookies on long haul flights...and that is my personal preference. Scrapdog and Moose have MO's that work for them...

Man! I didn't even consider the long haul flight. Perhaps I'll just show them some of my medals I got in the military. I'm sure they'll be impressed. I know that I am. I may also let them inspect my extra nipple that can be milked. They could use the milk to go with the cookies that you brought them.

What do you think Rez? Is this good enough or is it still "amature?"

 

[freightdogfred]

Jesus, I thought this thing was dead. Ok, I'll bite, what don't I get? I don't get that you need to buy cookies or other deserts to ride a jumpseat? Bullsh*t. I have said over and over (ref my prior posts) that it takes common sense and courtesy - something you do in everyday life. That's all it takes to ride the jumpseat. I've done it a fair number of times so far without issues. I say "thanks for the ride" I shake the guys hand and I take my seat. So, because I fly a fighter, I don't get it huh? So, if that's so off base, please freightdogfred, enlighten me a little further.

Since you asked, ok, I'll enlighten you. It's your brash attitude and lack of humility that indicate an inability to extend courtesy. Are cookies required to jumpseat? No. Are you required to remain in your seat until the last passenger is deplaned (the gist of this thread) and thank the crew, including the lead? No. It merely shows courtesy, a little bit more than just "thanks for the ride, pal." It was not so long ago that many ALPA carriers would not even give you a ride if you were not ALPA, and if you did not demonstrate proper etiquette you would be corrected in short order. It's not hard to spot an old time legacy crewmember jumpseating, because they're almost the last off. I personally think it shows respect for me, my company, and demonstrates his appreciation for the ride. It also gives me an unhurried moment to look him in the eye, wish him well, and shake his hand. Times have changed, most of the old skool dudes are gone (along with their companies) and I guess it's a different mindset now. Just remember 1 bad apple can make a whole lot of ill will towards a pilot group.

 

[Scrapdog]

Since you asked, ok, I'll enlighten you. It's your brash attitude and lack of humility that indicate an inability to extend courtesy. Are cookies required to jumpseat? No. Are you required to remain in your seat until the last passenger is deplaned (the gist of this thread) and thank the crew, including the lead? No. It merely shows courtesy, a little bit more than just "thanks for the ride, pal." It was not so long ago that many ALPA carriers would not even give you a ride if you were not ALPA, and if you did not demonstrate proper etiquette you would be corrected in short order. It's not hard to spot an old time legacy crewmember jumpseating, because they're almost the last off. I personally think it shows respect for me, my company, and demonstrates his appreciation for the ride. It also gives me an unhurried moment to look him in the eye, wish him well, and shake his hand. Times have changed, most of the old skool dudes are gone (along with their companies) and I guess it's a different mindset now. Just remember 1 bad apple can make a whole lot of ill will towards a pilot group.

Talk about brash attitude - listen to your post! Pretty piss poor if you ask me...as I recall you were the one that went offensive on me because of my avatar. Complete bullsh*t, you want to call me out, do it like a man, not say some lame statement as "oh, just look at his avatar." Call me brash all you want, but I will always be upfront and not beat around the bush (such as yourself). To me, that shows a weakness in character.

However, let's look back at the root of your having a beak with me. I have simply disagree'd that you need any type of food to go along with simple courtesy when jumpseating. That has been my mantra the entire time - why I'm still being attacked because I fly a fighter for the ANG...well, I have no f*cking clue. As I said earlier, I've jumpseated now quite a bit, I've always been polite - and I've had absolutely 0 problems.

So, to find closure fred we'll make a deal. I'll continue to fly fighters in the ANG and I'll continue to jumpseat. When I jumpseat, I'll continue to strictly be polite (and look him "in the eye" - as you said). When I fly on YOUR jumpseat, I'll not only be polite, but I'll also bring you a batch of cookies (to show I'm "new skool" and not "old skool"). I think that takes care of all bases. Deal? Good. Case closed.