ASA Mgmt cannot staff properly; wants new hire pay raises

[Airboss]

ASA flight operations management today sought relief in the Status Quo of our current contract to give raises to new hire pilots. Management stated they are having difficulty attracting qualified applicants to ASA.
After consultation with the voting members, MEC Chairman responded to managements request by stating quite simply, “If management wants to attract quality pilots to ASA – settling the remaining open issues of our entire contract will both attract new pilots and stabilize the current pilot groups’ frustrations with management.”
While the MEC is all for working together for win-win situations, we are not interested in carving out special treatment for one segment of the group (new hires) while the remainder of the pilot group have been waiting almost 5 years for pay raises and much needed work rule changes.
One additional point; previous statements by management like, “zero-net-gain contract,” and “we need to be the second lowest paid pilots or we’ll shrink-and-die,” do not help attract quality pilots either.
Your MEC is committed to achieving the goals set out by the ASA pilots; to conclude these negotiations with a fair and equitable contract. At the same time we recognize the value of building a working relationship with management to address our common goals and interests. It is this MEC’s position that the quickest and most successful way to attract quality and experienced pilots to ASA is to conclude these negotiations quickly and acknowledge the hard work and dedication of the ASA pilots as a whole.

 

[John Pennekamp]

So the company and the MEC take the newhires hostage. It was bound to happen sometime.

While I agree it's unfair to the rest of the pilots to only give a raise to newhires, and I also agree that it's counterproductive to give the company what it wants without quid-pro-quo, it's still sad that the lowest paid pilots at the company are going to have to carry our water.

It seems the gamesmanship on both sides continues...

 

[buscap]

And how about some sort of post-IOE-Hazard pay for the Captains who have to fly with the inexperienced low timers we are managing to hire!!!!

 

[Tim47SIP]

Pilot loss numbers

I know the company is losing numerous pilots as I moved over 80 numbers and I am in the mid 600's out of 1700 plus on the seniority list. I cant imagine the total number that have left in the last six months. It has to be close to 200. I wonder when the company is going to wake up? Is Skywest having the same problems with attrition and new hires?? If not, I bet the writing is on the wall on how Skywest will fix the shortages at ASA.

 

[shamrock]

So the company and the MEC take the newhires hostage. It was bound to happen sometime.

While I agree it's unfair to the rest of the pilots to only give a raise to newhires, and I also agree that it's counterproductive to give the company what it wants without quid-pro-quo, it's still sad that the lowest paid pilots at the company are going to have to carry our water.

It seems the gamesmanship on both sides continues...

How are new hires being "taken hostage"? The "lowest paid pilots" have always "carried out water". The new hires you speak of are not being punished or held hostage if the Union doesn't agree to this because they haven't even been hired yet.

I'm all for raising new hire pay, but not as a selective, "band-aid" solution to the Company's actions. Maybe they should treat the problem, not the symptom.

 

[frapper]

The MEC is doing what is best for all of us! This is called leverage -- I say milk it dry!!!

As for the newbies being forced to carry our water: First of all, we were all there AT LEAST once. Secondly, when we came here we were actually qualified to take the job! So IMHO, these people are VERY lucky! And finally, we're talking about the company not being able to hire new people fast enough! So you're sympathizing with people that are not qualified to be here, and people that DON'T EVEN WORK HERE YET!!!

It's been a long road, but we're finally reaching the end! It's time we stand united and support our MEC instead of secong-guessing every decision they make! Believe me, they are much MUCH more in the know than you or I, so lets just give them the benefit of the doubt!

 

[rightseatjocky]

I was in Flight Safety on Monday and the new hire class started with 11 in it. They were supposed to have 24. The things that make you go hmmmmm.

 

[John Pennekamp]

How are new hires being "taken hostage"? The "lowest paid pilots" have always "carried out water". The new hires you speak of are not being punished or held hostage if the Union doesn't agree to this because they haven't even been hired yet.

I'm all for raising new hire pay, but not as a selective, "band-aid" solution to the Company's actions. Maybe they should treat the problem, not the symptom.

Before you alpaistas have a knee jerk reaction to flame me note that I blame both sides.

The new hires need relief. They are among the lowest paid new hires in the industry at $19 per hour. Yes, they knew what they were getting when they signed up, but getting them some more money would be nice. We've already discussed an increase in new hire pay. If memory serves, it's around $21 an hour.


How are they being taken hostage? They are now the latest bargaining chip in this contract battle.

The company wants to raise their pay immediately, because they "can't attract new pilots" and because it makes the union look bad to say no. Now Scott and Bryan can go to the new hire classes and say "Alpa won't let us give you a raise". This right before they sign their union cards.

For the union, if they say yes, they sell out the voting members for a benefit to the non-voting members. That's not smart. It would probably also drag out the contract because we are lacking incentives for the company to settle. On the other hand, they make themselves look bad by saying no to the most impoverished pilots. It's a catch-22 for the union and smart politics for the company.

Regardless, both the offer by the company, and the response by the union were very predictable.

 

[USCtrojan]

ASA flight operations management today sought relief in the Status Quo of our current contract to give raises to new hire pilots. Management stated they are having difficulty attracting qualified applicants to ASA.
After consultation with the voting members, MEC Chairman responded to managements request by stating quite simply, “If management wants to attract quality pilots to ASA – settling the remaining open issues of our entire contract will both attract new pilots and stabilize the current pilot groups’ frustrations with management.”
While the MEC is all for working together for win-win situations, we are not interested in carving out special treatment for one segment of the group (new hires) while the remainder of the pilot group have been waiting almost 5 years for pay raises and much needed work rule changes.
One additional point; previous statements by management like, “zero-net-gain contract,” and “we need to be the second lowest paid pilots or we’ll shrink-and-die,” do not help attract quality pilots either.
Your MEC is committed to achieving the goals set out by the ASA pilots; to conclude these negotiations with a fair and equitable contract. At the same time we recognize the value of building a working relationship with management to address our common goals and interests. It is this MEC’s position that the quickest and most successful way to attract quality and experienced pilots to ASA is to conclude these negotiations quickly and acknowledge the hard work and dedication of the ASA pilots as a whole.

This is one where I agree wholeheartedly with the Unions viewpoint. My respect for our mgmt. team has actually gotten lower if that's possible. If they use this now in New Hire classes to pit New Hires against our Union it will be even lower. We need to move forward, not backwards.

And didn't Scott Hall just come out with a memo stating our staffing is fine? I recall his memo stating we are all caught up, etc. etc.

Trojan

 

[amcnd]

IIs Skywest having the same problems with attrition and new hires?? If not, I bet the writing is on the wall on how Skywest will fix the shortages at ASA.

YES!! Skywest is lossing 25-30 a month. And falling short on filling newhire classes.

 

[spudskier]

Look I don't normally post here in fear of my britches catching on fire as a thread is flamed into a useless pile of charred embers, but this is a hot button topic for me.

I am a new hire. I recently passed my checkride (been on the property a bit over 2 months and gained many many numbers on the new list).

First off, Bull honkey! I am 100% qualified to be here. Admittedly there are some 250hr new hires which drive me nuts but I'm not one of them. Sorry about your luck that when you got here times were... more selective. Argument that people under 2000hrs or whatever don't deserve it is total idiocy and you know it.

*whew* that being said, the new hires like myself are stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of our loyalties. On the one hand, our first year pay blows harder than Katrina. Other hand I'm glad they rejected the raises because it's all or none, not just new hires. I want to see the entire pilot group as a whole do better and I know ALPA is doing what they're supposed to do by rejecting the offer. Then on the other hand I want to see the company do well, hire enough pilots so I might have a few days off and be financially successful so i have a job in a year or two from now.

In our new hire classes we're taught to hate the company because they won't budge on the "few remaining issues", were taught to be pissed at the MEC because it looks from the outside to a new guy that they're asking for the moon and then some. Were taught to dread the crusty disgruntled captains we're going to be flying with. Oh yeah, and there's always the threat looming over our heads that this might result in a strike (which might ACTUALLY be a good thing from what we're told) but would take away those hefty 3-digit paychecks we're getting. (Disclaimer: This is NOT being taught by the people who actually are paid to teach us things, don't want anyone in trouble here)

So why did I choose to work here again? Oh yeah, damn good training dept, decent airplanes, lotta good people to work with, quick upgrade time livable pay the 2nd year (not to say it shouldn't be higher), really good people to work with (did I mention that already?)

So keep things in check... things could be a LOT better, but could be a LOT worse. Us newbies want whats good for the company as well as ourselves and the pilot group as a whole.

 

[USCtrojan]

Look I don't normally post here in fear of my britches catching on fire as a thread is flamed into a useless pile of charred embers, but this is a hot button topic for me.

I am a new hire. I recently passed my checkride (been on the property a bit over 2 months and gained many many numbers on the new list).

First off, Bull honkey! I am 100% qualified to be here. Admittedly there are some 250hr new hires which drive me nuts but I'm not one of them. Sorry about your luck that when you got here times were... more selective. Argument that people under 2000hrs or whatever don't deserve it is total idiocy and you know it.

*whew* that being said, the new hires like myself are stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of our loyalties. On the one hand, our first year pay blows harder than Katrina. Other hand I'm glad they rejected the raises because it's all or none, not just new hires. I want to see the entire pilot group as a whole do better and I know ALPA is doing what they're supposed to do by rejecting the offer. Then on the other hand I want to see the company do well, hire enough pilots so I might have a few days off and be financially successful so i have a job in a year or two from now.

In our new hire classes we're taught to hate the company because they won't budge on the "few remaining issues", were taught to be pissed at the MEC because it looks from the outside to a new guy that they're asking for the moon and then some. Were taught to dread the crusty disgruntled captains we're going to be flying with. Oh yeah, and there's always the threat looming over our heads that this might result in a strike (which might ACTUALLY be a good thing from what we're told) but would take away those hefty 3-digit paychecks we're getting. (Disclaimer: This is NOT being taught by the people who actually are paid to teach us things, don't want anyone in trouble here)

So why did I choose to work here again? Oh yeah, damn good training dept, decent airplanes, lotta good people to work with, quick upgrade time livable pay the 2nd year (not to say it shouldn't be higher), really good people to work with (did I mention that already?)

So keep things in check... things could be a LOT better, but could be a LOT worse. Us newbies want whats good for the company as well as ourselves and the pilot group as a whole.

Great post, I think you're preaching to the choir here, brother.

Trojan

 

[ualdriver]

ASA flight operations management today sought relief in the Status Quo of our current contract to give raises to new hire pilots. Management stated they are having difficulty attracting qualified applicants to ASA.
After consultation with the voting members, MEC Chairman responded to managements request by stating quite simply, “If management wants to attract quality pilots to ASA – settling the remaining open issues of our entire contract will both attract new pilots and stabilize the current pilot groups’ frustrations with management.”
While the MEC is all for working together for win-win situations, we are not interested in carving out special treatment for one segment of the group (new hires) while the remainder of the pilot group have been waiting almost 5 years for pay raises and much needed work rule changes.
One additional point; previous statements by management like, “zero-net-gain contract,” and “we need to be the second lowest paid pilots or we’ll shrink-and-die,” do not help attract quality pilots either.
Your MEC is committed to achieving the goals set out by the ASA pilots; to conclude these negotiations with a fair and equitable contract. At the same time we recognize the value of building a working relationship with management to address our common goals and interests. It is this MEC’s position that the quickest and most successful way to attract quality and experienced pilots to ASA is to conclude these negotiations quickly and acknowledge the hard work and dedication of the ASA pilots as a whole.

I don't have a dog in your fight (other than I want to see you guys kick ASA management A$$), but I 100% agree with your MEC's position. You have to use every bit of leverage possible, and this is a nice little lever.

 

[ERJDRVR]

They could bypass this all by simply saying, "hey newhires, we will give you 10K bonus once you complete training".

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but this does not violate any CBA's.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Don't get me wrong. I agree that the union did the right thing. They had no choice. It's just too bad it has to come to this. Really, the newhires should blame the company for being so petty.

 

[www.]

Regardless, both the offer by the company, and the response by the union were very predictable.

I support and I would expect no less from the MEC on this issue. Business is business.

 

[www.]

Great post, I think you're preaching to the choir here, brother.

Trojan

I got your brother right here...You back in ATL or commute?

 

[www.]

They could bypass this all by simply saying, "hey newhires, we will give you 10K bonus once you complete training".

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but this does not violate any CBA's.

A change in pay.

 

[jstyle13]

If they wanna get new hires in here, they can raise the pay with a new rate in the new contract that they seem to be in no hurry to wrap up. Aside from that, they are wasting their time blowing that crap up the unions/pilot groups a$$.

 

[FishandFly]

So the company and the MEC take the newhires hostage. It was bound to happen sometime.

While I agree it's unfair to the rest of the pilots to only give a raise to newhires, and I also agree that it's counterproductive to give the company what it wants without quid-pro-quo, it's still sad that the lowest paid pilots at the company are going to have to carry our water.

It seems the gamesmanship on both sides continues...

Alpa reacted correctly. It is ASA mgmt's operating philosophy to screw everyone they can until they pay a numerical price. Other than minute issues where individuals in mgmt have gone out of there way to be good (or normal) people instead of maintaining the ASA mgmt status quo, this company insists on putting employees last.

And although new hires do need a significant raise, asa mgmt's attempt to bandage up there utterly inept company philosophy should not be accepted.