ALPA Filed with NMB today to represent Colgan Pilots

[Thurman Merman]

It's not an argument, I like a lot of silent colgan pilots are on the fence and need some convincing one way or another. Do I think an in house team can do anything, no. Do I think ALPA has gone the way of most any group that has been in unequal power too long as ALPA has, yes.

It's a conundrum, ALPA is not what they were 20 years ago, now they are bloated, self serving, and egotistical. Yet it could be the lesser of two evils.

Can ALPA gaurentee us protection from being stapled in the event of a list merger. Let's ask US Airways pilots how they feel on that one.

Prior to the aquasition if you asked me did we need a union? I would have replied absolutely not. Now there are different variables involved.

I do not have a dog in this fight, I've been here almost 4 years and will probably be leaving in the next 6 month. I've been treated well and do not identify with most the horror stories that have circulated through the years. I do beleive it is my responsibility to set a course of action beneficial to current and future Colgan Pilots.

ALPA is not a cure all end all. I'm getting acqaunted with the pro's and con's on both sides and making an informed decision as I hope everybody else is. The people's opinions I appreciate the most are senoir captains like myself who have been here for a while. It's hard to take junoir FO's seriously, like the ones I've seen campaigning in our hubs. Especially at less than a year on line and 500 hours, not saying anybody in this discussion is.

I would like to see line pilots with ALPA carriers not in the ALPA propaganda machine state their opinion. That is the information I will hold in the highest regard. Lastly, I am a commuter pilot for a stepping stone airline I hold no pie in the sky aspirations for Colgan. I want to know what realitic goals can be attained and who can create the best oppurtunity for these goals.

 

[av8tor76]

well spoken j-man!!, i would have well expected your honest, weighed response..you're right..it's not a win-win, but i'm glad you're basing your thoughts on the future colgan guys...

 

[Visceral]

Lastly, I am a commuter pilot for a stepping stone airline I hold no pie in the sky aspirations for Colgan. I want to know what realitic goals can be attained and who can create the best oppurtunity for these goals.

I don't think decent work rules and fair pay are too much to ask. Even with a job offer, I still think you have a dog in the fight as long as you're at Colgan.

 

[Fred Rogers]

It's not an argument, I like a lot of silent colgan pilots are on the fence and need some convincing one way or another. Do I think an in house team can do anything, no. Do I think ALPA has gone the way of most any group that has been in unequal power too long as ALPA has, yes.

It's a conundrum, ALPA is not what they were 20 years ago, now they are bloated, self serving, and egotistical. Yet it could be the lesser of two evils.

Can ALPA gaurentee us protection from being stapled in the event of a list merger. Let's ask US Airways pilots how they feel on that one.

Prior to the aquasition if you asked me did we need a union? I would have replied absolutely not. Now there are different variables involved.

I do not have a dog in this fight, I've been here almost 4 years and will probably be leaving in the next 6 month. I've been treated well and do not identify with most the horror stories that have circulated through the years. I do beleive it is my responsibility to set a course of action beneficial to current and future Colgan Pilots.

ALPA is not a cure all end all. I'm getting acqaunted with the pro's and con's on both sides and making an informed decision as I hope everybody else is. The people's opinions I appreciate the most are senoir captains like myself who have been here for a while. It's hard to take junoir FO's seriously, like the ones I've seen campaigning in our hubs. Especially at less than a year on line and 500 hours, not saying anybody in this discussion is.

I would like to see line pilots with ALPA carriers not in the ALPA propaganda machine state their opinion. That is the information I will hold in the highest regard. Lastly, I am a commuter pilot for a stepping stone airline I hold no pie in the sky aspirations for Colgan. I want to know what realitic goals can be attained and who can create the best oppurtunity for these goals.

I think it is imperative that we all make informed decisions, and mine is based on the exact group you mentioned. Line ALPA pilots not in the propaganda machine. I commute, and talk to a lot of different groups of pilots. (ALPA and Non-ALPA). The unanamous response to the questions I have asked is: Colgan pilots need representation. ALPA may not be the most wonderful thing since sliced bread, but it's the best thing out there for us. We have a lot to loose and a lot to gain. All I ask for here is a good set of work rules, a commuting clause, and fair pay.

The people with the most to gain are the guys 5 years from now, yes. But you DO have a dog in the fight. 5 years from now the Colgan Pilots will thank us. It's the right thing to do.

As far as the US Air pilots go, (and maybe I'm totally off base here) but from what I have heard, they did not want to negotiate for anything other than date of hire, and the independant arbitrator said tough. I think you would be hard pressed to find a pilot group that has been merged where everyone was thrilled with the results.

 

[OnTheRocks]

wake up, girls! colgan has nothing! what do we have to lose? nothing! we need some help, and since the majority of colgan pilots are nancys,doesnt look like we can get it from within. do the math, boys ...1.95% of nothing is nothing!

 

[jtrain609]

Just to play devil's advocate, ALPA drives up the cost of operating, all Colgan's contracts get dropped for less expensive operators. Furlough insues, Prater's mustache gets bigger, Colgan pilots end up on the street. Again just devil's advocate.

What about FEDEX? They are ALPA no? I don't see them having a problem making money.

If the Colgans really have something going with the T-Props market, which they have said time and again that we do, the contracts won't be dropped. Our operating costs are dirt cheap, it would be nice as pilots to be protected while we are here.

 

[jtrain609]

It's not an argument, I like a lot of silent colgan pilots are on the fence and need some convincing one way or another. Do I think an in house team can do anything, no. Do I think ALPA has gone the way of most any group that has been in unequal power too long as ALPA has, yes.

It's a conundrum, ALPA is not what they were 20 years ago, now they are bloated, self serving, and egotistical. Yet it could be the lesser of two evils.

Can ALPA gaurentee us protection from being stapled in the event of a list merger. Let's ask US Airways pilots how they feel on that one.

Prior to the aquasition if you asked me did we need a union? I would have replied absolutely not. Now there are different variables involved.

I do not have a dog in this fight, I've been here almost 4 years and will probably be leaving in the next 6 month. I've been treated well and do not identify with most the horror stories that have circulated through the years. I do beleive it is my responsibility to set a course of action beneficial to current and future Colgan Pilots.

ALPA is not a cure all end all. I'm getting acqaunted with the pro's and con's on both sides and making an informed decision as I hope everybody else is. The people's opinions I appreciate the most are senoir captains like myself who have been here for a while. It's hard to take junoir FO's seriously, like the ones I've seen campaigning in our hubs. Especially at less than a year on line and 500 hours, not saying anybody in this discussion is.

I would like to see line pilots with ALPA carriers not in the ALPA propaganda machine state their opinion. That is the information I will hold in the highest regard. Lastly, I am a commuter pilot for a stepping stone airline I hold no pie in the sky aspirations for Colgan. I want to know what realitic goals can be attained and who can create the best oppurtunity for these goals.

First, we would have the opportunity to have fences put up so we don't have merged lists. We fly the props, Pinnacle flys the jets. Ask the America West Pilots how they feel. A smaller pilot group, like Colgan Pilots. Just saying there are two sides to everything

You say you don't have a dog if the fight, think about those brand new officers that ARE here. Do you think that it will be the old Colgan you were used to? Colgan didn't respond to the fact that we filed with the NMB for a vote. PINNACLE LAWYERS DID. Pinnacle is also taking over accounting for the Colgan side of operations.


Tells you who is running the show.


In the end, it is great that we as Colgan Pilots have the choice now. Keep your contact information updated, keep track of things, and make sure you vote and encourage EVERYONE else to.

 

[jtrain609]

As far as the US Air pilots go, (and maybe I'm totally off base here) but from what I have heard, they did not want to negotiate for anything other than date of hire, and the independant arbitrator said tough. I think you would be hard pressed to find a pilot group that has been merged where everyone was thrilled with the results.

You are 110% right here. It was an outside arbitrator that made that call.

 

[LanceAir]

Colgan USED to be a small, family owned, commuter airline...now we are owned by a corporation, soon we will be flying mainline sized aircraft for less than 50 seat pay, and a merger is a question of when, not if.

We have entered a new arena of stock holders, lawyers, union busting and management trained to squeeze as much "juice out of the fruit" as possible.

We need someone on OUR side, someone who has been there before...

vote yes for ALPA

 

[BirdCatcher]

Just to play devil's advocate, ALPA drives up the cost of operating, all Colgan's contracts get dropped for less expensive operators. Furlough insues, Prater's mustache gets bigger, Colgan pilots end up on the street. Again just devil's advocate.

If this was the case, why is it that Colgan didn't even investigate pilot pay scales for the Q400 until AFTER they contract was awarded to us? If the profit margin was so low on the Q400 deal then they would have known what they could pay ahead of time.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It's not an argument, I like a lot of silent colgan pilots are on the fence and need some convincing one way or another. Do I think an in house team can do anything, no. Do I think ALPA has gone the way of most any group that has been in unequal power too long as ALPA has, yes.

Silent pilots? You've got three choices: choose not to choose, ALPA or no ALPA. Why would you reject representing your rights?

It's a conundrum, ALPA is not what they were 20 years ago, now they are bloated, self serving, and egotistical. Yet it could be the lesser of two evils.

20 years ago? What are you talking about? 20 years ago ALPA was getting its lunch handed to it by Frank Lorenzo. Have you read flying the line? as the OC for a copy. Maybe you should know what you are getting into...and what you are are already into....

Can ALPA gaurentee us protection from being stapled in the event of a list merger. Let's ask US Airways pilots how they feel on that one.

ALPA is a resource..not your savior. A vote for ALPA is a vote to be a volunteer and control our job and future....

Prior to the aquasition if you asked me did we need a union? I would have replied absolutely not. Now there are different variables involved.

Yeah.... its called being able to pay the rent, look in the mirror knowing you aren't some tool box managers boy and being a part of a professional organazation that represnts pilots and safety on an INTERNATIONAL level.

Why is a small group of pilots like Bearskin Airlines ALPA?

Bearskin
Number of Crewmembers: 58
Operations: Offers nearly 200 scheduled departures daily to 37 destinations
Hub Cities: Sioux Lookout and Thunder Bay, Ontario
Corporate Headquarters: Sioux Lookout, Ontario
Equipment: 7 Fairchild Metroliners; 6 Beechcraft 99; 4 Beechcraft King Air A100; 4 Pilatus PC-12 aircraft
​

I do not have a dog in this fight, I've been here almost 4 years and will probably be leaving in the next 6 month. I've been treated well and do not identify with most the horror stories that have circulated through the years. I do beleive it is my responsibility to set a course of action beneficial to current and future Colgan Pilots.

We have awinner... so its a yes vote?

ALPA is not a cure all end all. I'm getting acqaunted with the pro's and con's on both sides and making an informed decision as I hope everybody else is. The people's opinions I appreciate the most are senoir captains like myself who have been here for a while. It's hard to take junoir FO's seriously, like the ones I've seen campaigning in our hubs. Especially at less than a year on line and 500 hours, not saying anybody in this discussion is.

What are the pro's and cons of representing you rights?

I would like to see line pilots with ALPA carriers not in the ALPA propaganda machine state their opinion. That is the information I will hold in the highest regard. Lastly, I am a commuter pilot for a stepping stone airline I hold no pie in the sky aspirations for Colgan. I want to know what realitic goals can be attained and who can create the best oppurtunity for these goals.

Where do you plan to go? Do they have a union?

 

[Thurman Merman]

When I say twenty years ago I'm referencing 70's early 80's. My Grandad was high up in ALPA and I went to many a formal function and rubbed shoulders with some of its best. It is not the same group as it used to be, my opinion.

I own his original copy of Flying The Line and yes, I have read it. Again that was ALPA, like avaition in the "Golden Age."

I have no problem with ALPA, I'm considering what's best for Colgan's circumstances. Which, if you read my post doesn't exclude representation. This is a huge decision and there is no turning back once it is made. I'm not going to blindly follow the pack and vote yes 'cause people like to brow beat on a nameless, faceless internet site. So when I vote, which ever way it goes, I'll have the satisfaction in knowing I made a thoughtful and earnest decision.

I probably will be at an ALPA carrier one day and respect that fact. I look at situations and the way I see it there are three types of airlines, commuters (Colgan), regional (take your pick), and mainline (again, take your pick). I'm old school in my thinking so getting my head around ALPA representing commuters is an unnatural thing. That's why I'm making an informed decision.

I have many friends from 70's, Beech 99 Colgan Days and have horror stories that would make current Colgan seem like Southwest. And it was a dream job to finally get right seat of a 99 after 10 years of flight instructing. ALPA would not touch them then. The fact that the regionals and commuters are growing exponentially manpower wise translates into dollar signs, is not lost on me.

Lastly, my mind is not made up so the folks that have contributed thoughtful post, I 'preciate.

 

[BirdCatcher]

I see it there are three types of airlines, commuters (Colgan), regional (take your pick), and mainline (again, take your pick).

When Colgan purchased the Q400 Colgan moved up into the commuter category. That and the purchase of Colgan by Pinnacle is what led to all this.

ALPA would not touch them then. The fact that the regionals and commuters are growing exponentially manpower wise translates into dollar signs, is not lost on me.

ALPA doesn't go to the pilots, pilots go to ALPA. Colgan pilots tried before, but the desire wasn't there like it is now.

 

[suupah]

First, we would have the opportunity to have fences put up so we don't have merged lists. We fly the props, Pinnacle flys the jets. Ask the America West Pilots how they feel. A smaller pilot group, like Colgan Pilots. Just saying there are two sides to everything

You say you don't have a dog if the fight, think about those brand new officers that ARE here. Do you think that it will be the old Colgan you were used to? Colgan didn't respond to the fact that we filed with the NMB for a vote. PINNACLE LAWYERS DID. Pinnacle is also taking over accounting for the Colgan side of operations.


Tells you who is running the show.


In the end, it is great that we as Colgan Pilots have the choice now. Keep your contact information updated, keep track of things, and make sure you vote and encourage EVERYONE else to.

What did the Pinnacle lawyers do in response?

 

[suupah]

I have noticed mostly brand new hires spouting off about ALPA can't do anything for us, ALPA is a waste of time, I don't care about ALPA i am just going to get my time and go...etc etc.

Where the HE!! are they getting these hair brained ideas and please tell me they won't be voting!

Crazy part is, they won't listen to those who have been here a while. it is like they are completely brainwashed or something.