mesaba flow up and down

[SplitBar]

You really need about 10 years to come out ahead financially. Here is a sampling of how it would work out for a 12 year XJ Captain to flow up. This is based upon current payscales and 90 hours credit per month. Over these 5 years the XJ pilot is going also get $36K in 401K match, (75% of 9% of total income). Not sure how much 401K match the new hire NWA pilot would get over his/her 1st 5 years?

2008 12 year XJ CRJ200 PIC = $85K vs 1st year NWA DC9 FO = $33K
2009 13 year XJ CRJ200 PIC = $88K vs 2nd year NWA DC9 FO = $62K
2010 14 year XJ CRJ900 PIC = $99K vs 3rd year NWA A320 FO = $84K
2011 15 year XJ CRJ900 PIC = $102K vs 4th year NWA A320 FO = $86K
2012 16 year XJ CRJ900 PIC = $105K vs 5th year NWA 757 FO = $91K

Grand total over 5 yeras.

XJ = $479K + 36K in 401k match
NWA = $356K + ?? in 401K match

 

[N2264J]

I'd Like to thank all the hard work done by our MEC and NWA ALPA MEC. Death to WHIPSAWING!!!

As long as Northwest and Mesaba are two different pilot groups, the whipsaw will continue. (Not to mention Pinnacle, Colgan, Big Sky or Compass)

What happens if Mesaba is sold or Northwest is bought?

What are the Mesaba pilots giving up for the promise of this flow-through?

Click on blue icon.

 

[Gator1999]

Have fun with your flow-thru. Forget how many Expressjet pilots were displaced by people who came down to their ranks and displaced the FO's. I for one am glad that we didn't have a flow-thru at XJ when I was there...I saw a lot of my buddies that were furloughed at XJT, the same guys that were bragging and gloating about never having to interview for another job and that one day they will be flying a CAL 777, were then interviewing with Colgan, Gulfstream, Chautauqua, and Mesa just to keep flying. I guess some people just never learn...good luck, you're gonna need it.

 

[PCL_128]

As long as Northwest and Mesaba are two different pilot groups, the whipsaw will continue. (Not to mention Pinnacle, Colgan, Big Sky or Compass)

Rome wasn't built in a day. This is a very positive step, and the NWA MEC (and Occam) should be commended for the work they did on this. The ultimate goal is a single list, but you reach goals by taking one step at a time. But I guess that doesn't fit your RJDC spin, huh?

What are the Mesaba pilots giving up for the promise of this flow-through?

Looks like nothing to me. The ones giving something up are the NWA pilots. The NWA MEC could have used this scope violation as leverage to recoup some concessions through a grievance settlement, but instead they took the first step in ending the whipsaw.

 

[N2264J]

Looks like nothing to me. The ones giving something up are the NWA pilots.

Baloney.

Remember, this is the MEC that got a $15 million bargaining credit for diverting growth from Mesaba and Pinnacle while standing up another alter ego carrier so that your flying may be sub contracted to the "preferred" airline staffed by Northwest furloughees.

Yeah, Mesaba is giving up something for this and probably something significant further reducing working conditions at the low end so that a few senior pilots might pass through to the promised land while Northwest is hiring off the street or drawing from Compass.

Read point 7 first:

http://www.rjdefense.com/2003/10_Things_About_Scope.pdf

 

[filejw]

PLC 128 .They did..get the full story before you post. Return to 100% DH pay. Cxl the zero open time system. And best of all return to of all block or better pay.

 

[PCL_128]

Yeah, Mesaba is giving up something for this and probably something significant further reducing working conditions at the low end so that a few senior pilots might pass through to the promised land while Northwest is hiring off the street or drawing from Compass.

Then what are they giving up, my N-numbered friend? Are you just making ass-umptions? I've seen no evidence that anything has been given up by the MSA MEC to make this happen.

Read point 7 first:

http://www.rjdefense.com/2003/10_Things_About_Scope.pdf

As usual, that piece of RJDC propaganda provides lots of assertions without backing up any of it with facts. It's all opinion, no hard data. "Flowthroughs are bad, mmmmkay?"

 

[PCL_128]

PLC 128 .They did..get the full story before you post. Return to 100% DH pay. Cxl the zero open time system. And best of all return to of all block or better pay.

You miss the point. The point is that the MEC could have achieved some rather significant gains on that POS contract had they given up on the idea of a flowthrough and just threw the MSA pilots under the bus. They didn't do that. Yes, a couple of items here or there were taken back, and that's good news, but you don't get a flowthrough deal without using some of your leverage. The MEC used that leverage to start towards an end to the red-tail whipsaw, and that's a good sign. I hope the other legacy MECs take note.

 

[N2264J]

Then what are they giving up, my N-numbered friend?

Maybe the Mesaba pilots will find out what they're giving up at the road shows or maybe they won't figure it out until after the TA is voted in but I predict they'll pay and pay dearly for it.

So what happens to the flow through if Mesaba is sold or Northwest is bought?

Does Mesaba flow first or Compass or new hires off the street or is it a combination thereof?

Has the Mesaba MEC been invited to the table to work this out or is all the details being negotiated by the Northwest MEC?

Why wasn't attrition nonexistent at Eagle and CoEx when they both had their flow through? At that time, those pilots were leaving for other airlines in greater numbers than from Comair. Why?

 

[PCL_128]

Maybe the Mesaba pilots will find out what they're giving up at the road shows or maybe they won't figure it out until after the TA is voted in but I predict they'll pay and pay dearly for it.

I predict you'll be wrong, as you usually are.

So what happens to the flow through if Mesaba is sold or Northwest is bought?

Don't know. Those details will come out when the final language is distributed to everyone. I doubt NWA will be bought, and I don't see XJ being sold for a while. NWA will probably sell Compass first in a couple of years and hold onto XJ for a while longer.

Does Mesaba flow first or Compass or new hires off the street or is it a combination thereof?

Sounds like a combination, but we'll have to see. What difference does it make? It's better than what they have now (which is nothing), and I doubt they're giving up anything to get it.

Has the Mesaba MEC been invited to the table to work this out or is all the details being negotiated by the Northwest MEC?

Captain Wychor and the MSA MEC have an excellent relationship with the NWA MEC. They are usually talking on a daily basis. I doubt Tom was in the dark on this at all. He probably had significant input, although I doubt whether he was actually at the table negotiating this. Maybe your MEC should consider building a good relationship with your mainline partner's MEC as Captain Wychor has done. Seems to produce much better dividends than silly lawsuits that are destined for failure.

Why wasn't attrition nonexistent at Eagle and CoEx when they both had their flow through? At that time, those pilots were leaving for other airlines in greater numbers than from Comair. Why?

Probably because not everyone in the world has a hard-on to work for CAL or AMR, just as you don't care one bit to work for mainline DAL. Had there been a flowthrough with NWA when I was at PCL, I probably would have bypassed and waited for a job at AAI, DAL, UPS, or AAA. A flowthrough isn't perfect for everyone, because everyone doesn't want to work at that specific carrier, but it's nice to have the option.

 

[XJohXJ]

The Mesaba MEC has been in negotiations with the NWA MEC for the last couple of months. They are definitely involved in this process. The details are still being worked out.

 

[xjhawk]

this deal will contain pros and cons, during the road shows we will be given the info and see how that pans out. What I have heard is that like compass if a pilot decides not to flow, he or she is locked in, and any flow downs go behind him on the list. Thats just rumor. i WILL WAIT TO SEE A ROAD SHOW TO PASS JUDGEMENT, BUT MY FIRST LOOK SEEMS TO BE POSITIVE

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Mesaba senior captains need not apply, however you 7-10 year saab FO's with NO PIC time you start next Friday.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Or, if you're a management tool like YourPilotFriend, expect to get fired when you can't complete the schedule this Summer.

The Dairy Queen in Eagan is hiring...so your "safety" job is a GO!

 

[N2264J]

The Mesaba MEC has been in negotiations with the NWA MEC for the last couple of months. They are definitely involved in this process. The details are still being worked out.

What I'm saying is - when this gets taken to management, will Mesaba have a seat at that table to represent their pilots or is the Northwest MEC going to negotiate the terms of this flow through with managment by themselves?

Since the NWA MEC unilaterally diverted growth from Mesaba for a $15 million dollar bargaining credit, do you think it's important for someone from Mesaba to be sitting in that room - you know, representing your interests?

 

[Monster Buck]

There will be NO flow through unless Mesaba MEC accepts it. They may not write it, only make requests but in the end, our MEC has the final say to go or no go. Like before, when our MEC rejected the flow through seven years ago. Our MEC didn't accept the final lang., therefore no flow. To those that are so skepticle, I know we are jaded, but relax. If you don't want to go you will be locked in senior, no one will flow back senior to you. You may not like our MEC but they could have benifited from the old flow offer but turned it down because it did not benifit the entire group, only the super senior. Our MEC hasn't done everything the way I would like it but in the end they have done preety well considering what we have faced(criminals). I am sure they are working on this for our benefit as hard as possible. Yes I know it is not in stone but like others have said, if you don't want to go, don't, I'm sure its no skin of NWA back. No one will come back above you.:beer:

 

[Hulk Hogan]

From what I understand, a third airlink was a long time comming. atleast with this arrangement ... NWA pilots have some control and we (the other links) avoid outside companies ... for now. It's easier to talk about falling on one own sword than actually doing.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

There will be NO flow through unless Mesaba MEC accepts it. They may not write it, only make requests but in the end, our MEC has the final say to go or no go. Like before, when our MEC rejected the flow through seven years ago. Our MEC didn't accept the final lang., therefore no flow. To those that are so skepticle, I know we are jaded, but relax. If you don't want to go you will be locked in senior, no one will flow back senior to you. You may not like our MEC but they could have benifited from the old flow offer but turned it down because it did not benifit the entire group, only the super senior. Our MEC hasn't done everything the way I would like it but in the end they have done preety well considering what we have faced(criminals). I am sure they are working on this for our benefit as hard as possible. Yes I know it is not in stone but like others have said, if you don't want to go, don't, I'm sure its no skin of NWA back. No one will come back above you.:beer:

The NWA MEC has allowed the mesaba MEC to participate in this deal to seek favorable terms for mesaba pilots. However, it will ultimately be the decision of NWA management and the NWA MEC on the terms of the deal. The Mesaba MEC will not have the ability to stop the deal from happening.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

The NWA MEC has allowed the mesaba MEC to participate in this deal to seek favorable terms for mesaba pilots. However, it will ultimately be the decision of NWA management and the NWA MEC on the terms of the deal. The Mesaba MEC will not have the ability to stop the deal from happening.

So, if I get what you're saying, My MEC cannot control whether or not pilots from another pilot list can flow down? That seems highly suspect. What do you base that statement on?

 

[YourPilotFriend]

So, if I get what you're saying, My MEC cannot control whether or not pilots from another pilot list can flow down? That seems highly suspect. What do you base that statement on?

Being owned by NWA means you fall under the terms of the 76 jet contract between NWA and NWAALPA. You can't operate the CRJ 900 unless it complies with the scope agreement set out in the NWA pilot contract.