landing separation

[BGSM]

whats the min separation when landing, tower had me go around when I was on short final over the approach lights due to a Gulfstream landing long.. used all 9,000 feet and turned off at the end... just curious been in the landing flare at the same airport and heard tower clear a plane to cross the runway i was landing on didn't get a warm and fuzzy on that one

 

[Say Again Over]

What were you flying?

 

[BGSM]

A Cessna 208

 

[atl pilot]

Because the preceding arriving aicraft was a jet, the runway must be clear, regardless of runway length, at the time you crossed the landing threshold. Had it been another single engine, 3000 feet would have been adequet; had it been a non-jet twin, 4500 feet would have been okay; had it been a jet departure 6000 feet and airborne would have worked. All these rules are available for free on the FAA's website....look up FAA Order 7110.65, and look in chapter 3.
As for the crossing traffic, you're mixing apples and oranges. The rules are totally different. Its completely legal for a controller to cross the runway you're landing on at any point that it behind you. In addition, the controller (if so approved at that specific airport) can use LAHSO with aircraft landing or departing an intersecting runway, and here in ATL, we use it to cross aircraft taxiing at the extreme deprture end of the runway while you're landing, by asking you to hold short of that taxiway. All completely legal under specific circumstances.

 

[BGSM]

Thanks for the detailed reply and where to look up further info. I appreciate it!!

 

[atcloser]

That is not totally correct, for arrivals, one aircraft at a time on the runway. The preceding aircraft has to be clear of the runway. The 3000 ft, 4500 ft, and 6000 ft rule is for launching departures only at a VFR tower. It has nothing to do with landing traffic.

 

[Daveman]

crusty pilot once said "a go-around is the best maneuver".

keeps us on our toes!

 

[GIVDrvr]

atl pilot has it pretty close except the multiple arrival spacing he mentions only applies sunrise to sunset and not all cat III a/c are jets.
7110.65R ...
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/orders_notices/air_traffic_orders/media/7110.65R.pdf

 

[Seadogrun]

That is not totally correct, for arrivals, one aircraft at a time on the runway. The preceding aircraft has to be clear of the runway. The 3000 ft, 4500 ft, and 6000 ft rule is for launching departures only at a VFR tower. It has nothing to do with landing traffic.

I have been cleared to land behind landing traffic not yet clear of the runway. This was many years ago. At that time I believe the controller mentioned something about 3000ft.

 

[atl pilot]

Landing Separation

Actually, the catagory 3 you're speaking of is not the same as what you think. There's another definition depicted in the Glossary of the 7110.65 for the purposes of ATC separation. Two different sets of rules and catagories for different purposes (controler vs. pilot applications). Plus there a dozen variables that I could elaborate on about the rules, however I thought he just wanted to understand why he went around in this partular scenario. By trade, ATL Pilot is really a controller at ATL Airport.

 

[GIVDrvr]

I am very familiar with SRS categories. At least I oughta be after 20 years in the biz.:beer:

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

That is not totally correct, for arrivals, one aircraft at a time on the runway. The preceding aircraft has to be clear of the runway. The 3000 ft, 4500 ft, and 6000 ft rule is for launching departures only at a VFR tower. It has nothing to do with landing traffic.

I disagree, i have at least two planes on my runway at a time daily. Use the rules above, if a cessna is 3000ft down the runway and another single crosses the threshold, its legal, if its a twin behind the single, i need 4500. If there is a jet involved he has to be clear. Jets and Small +'s.

 

[Say Again Over]

MK, do you work at a small VFR tower?

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

only for a few more months. Im moving on!

 

[atcloser]

I disagree, i have at least two planes on my runway at a time daily. Use the rules above, if a cessna is 3000ft down the runway and another single crosses the threshold, its legal, if its a twin behind the single, i need 4500. If there is a jet involved he has to be clear. Jets and Small +'s.

well then, i knew i should have stayed awake for this part of the 7110.65 review in OKC! i could never understand why i had to get tower training in OKC when i was hired at a TRACON. i guess i'll just go back to sleep now...

oops.