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bailey3083

bailey3083

I'm Not Hiding
Joined
Aug 30, 2006
Posts
489
This website is really trying to distort the truth about our flying. If you look at any of the real info we make up a fraction of what the Airliners make up but yet there is a movement to tax us heavier. Is it really our fault that ticket prices have fallen so the FAA is not taking in as much per ticket as before?

http://www.smartskies.org/
 
Come on, with the track record and great business practices the airlines have demonstrated in the last few years you don't want them to run the air traffic control system also?:rolleyes:

I would say they should stick to what they are good at, but I have no idea what that is.
 
The point is the airlines are pressing congress to enact legislation that would overhaul the FAA's revenue system by placing user fees on GA and us. If it goes through get ready to pony up to the FAA every time you get a medical, apply for a new type, apply for a new rating, land at a towered field, use an airway, get a vector, and fly an approach. These fees will have a HUGE impact on all of our companies.

I wish I had a link to the site that's fighting this. It would be appropriate here. I do suggest you call your congressmen as I have done.
 
$25 might not seem like a lot to the non-flying public, but when you figure how many frac flights per day there are, it boggles the mind. I'm looking for a website glasspilot...I'll post one if I find it. I know the NBAA, EAA and AOPA have info against this, but I'm looking for another grass routes type website.

I call BS only because it seems the big guys are just looking for someone else to help them out since the gov't obviously is over it. Hey, sorry Orbitz and every other site like it has cut so deep. I'm all for "cheap" tickets, but gimme a break.

EDIT: Check out this PDF file if you haven't all ready seen it. http://web.nbaa.org/public/news/200607eaa/GAUnitedAgainstUserFees.pdf
 
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You wanna play, you gotta pay.

If they tack on another $25/per flight our owners will just chuckle and say............

Here's $50, make mine a round trip! They could give a rats *ss about this.
 
wolfpackpilot said:
You wanna play, you gotta pay.

If they tack on another $25/per flight our owners will just chuckle and say............

Here's $50, make mine a round trip! They could give a rats *ss about this.
Click to expand...

That is what one member of congress wants to do. These people are pushing for user fees where when we get our clearance we pay..when we take off we pay..when we do anything we pay. This can add alot of money to a flight and then the airlines get to drop the taxes that they are charging so they can be that little bit cheaper.

Bailey
 
NEVER GIVE THE GOVERNMENT AN EXCUSE TO COLLECT $$$$ It will cost more to administer than it's bringing in probably.

Don't forget the govt's way of increasing these or any fees to suit the whim of the GREAT FAA mgmt
 
dalegribble said:
NEVER GIVE THE GOVERNMENT AN EXCUSE TO COLLECT $$$$ It will cost more to administer than it's bringing in probably.

Don't forget the govt's way of increasing these or any fees to suit the whim of the GREAT FAA mgmt
Click to expand...


That's actually a very good point. The government already concedes that it will cost much more to administer this program. (Picture some bean counter trying to figure out how many time each airway got used and by which aircraft.) They admit that it will not bring any more money into the system for this reason. However, once the program gets in then it's just a matter of raising the $40 medical fee to $75 and the $85 approach fee to $120.

The goal is to bring the system in, save the airlines a few dollars by shifting the load onto GA, and then raise the fees to make the same money. All in the name of "Making airfare cheaper for the flying public". We're talking pennies per ticket.

If it does go through then the flight instructor mills will have to raise their rates from the already staggering $60,000 to North of $100K for a Commercial Multi Instrument rating. Even a private license will be North of 10K. This will kill pilot start ups, take the "fun" out of private flying, and turn our open skies into the strict and tight corridors that make up the European airspace.

I encourage everyone to get involved. This is a major threat to the way we all view American aviation.
 
For those of you that think user fees will not impact our lives as corporate pilots, you need to pull your head out and look around. The airline lobbists are pushing for the user fees and the FAA is favor of it as well. Irregardless of the fact that the proposed system will yield less money. I encourage all of you to go to www.NBAA.org. In the upper right hand corner you can click "Contact Congress". There you will find form letters opposing user fees. Tell everyone.......our jobs may depend on it!
 
Hmmm ... so we can finance a two-billion-dollar-a-week foriegn misadventure in the Middle East, award hundreds of "no-bid" contracts to companies most of us have never heard of who do everything from serve hamburgers to G.I.'s to conduct dubious "reconstruction" projects in Bagdad, and yet there's just not enough money left to fund GA in the U.S?

WTF???!!!????
 
Dooker said:
Hmmm ... so we can finance a two-billion-dollar-a-week foriegn misadventure in the Middle East, award hundreds of "no-bid" contracts to companies most of us have never heard of who do everything from serve hamburgers to G.I.'s to conduct dubious "reconstruction" projects in Bagdad, and yet there's just not enough money left to fund GA in the U.S?

WTF???!!!????
Click to expand...


Exactly.

In 1983 there was a viable plan to send a manned expedition to Mars. Cost? $80 billion. 1/5 of what we've wasted in Iraq. Not to mention the countless Iraqi civilian and American lives. But hey, if the government needs more money, just ask the Federal Reserve and they create it out of thin air!! YAY!

This user fee system just has government mismanagement written all over it. I'd really prefer not to trust some staff in the FAA to keep track of how many approaches I shoot or towers I talk to and then invoice my company. No thanks.

Also I love how that website singles out three or four special events to claim that bizjets are taking over the skies. Take a look at O'Hare any day of the week and see how the numbers play out.
 
If the worst of the user fees comes to pass (and if they get the first ones through, more will follow), I've heard it would cost $1,000 to take a written exam. That's over 1500% more than it costs now. Somehow I doubt that the cost of administering a written exam has gone up 1500%.
 
Leave the GI's out of it milk

Look Man/Girl, (milk)

One of the decent things that some could count on in Iraq, and less could count on in Afghanistan (been to both) was the hamburgers your talking about. (some half way decent chow)

So you wanna jack food and ammo from the troops??? Eat Sh$t.

Troops are living in 8X8' hooches jack. (Those are the ones in the big town, not the ones out in the boonies (forward operating bases (FOB's)). (tents/mud/mortars)

Jeez man, I don't know you but I thnk I can speak for them all when I say enjoy your freedom of speech......

(Enjoyed a rainstorm and some beers with my wife, its good to be home, sorry about the "eat sh$t)
 
And Dooker too

Don't know you but I don't think youve been to any of the places your commenting on.

You may not be old enough to have been to them as an aviator.

(Unlike the teenagers through senior citizens (Thank you guard and reserves) that are serving)

I could preach all day and if you weren't there, ya just wouldn't get it.

Cherish your way of life while you can "amigos".

(I go for another beer shaking my head and feeling guilty for being home)

Sheesh......
 
gunfyter said:
...And if you like that plan ... just wait till the government takes over HealthCare! Cost of Iraq war will be like a drop in the bucket.
Click to expand...
As evidenced by Dubya's Medicare prescription drug plan. But hey, it helped him win reelection so who cares how much it costs?
 
Semore Butts said:
Look Man/Girl, (milk)

One of the decent things that some could count on in Iraq, and less could count on in Afghanistan (been to both) was the hamburgers your talking about. (some half way decent chow)

So you wanna jack food and ammo from the troops??? Eat Sh$t.

Troops are living in 8X8' hooches jack. (Those are the ones in the big town, not the ones out in the boonies (forward operating bases (FOB's)). (tents/mud/mortars)

Jeez man, I don't know you but I thnk I can speak for them all when I say enjoy your freedom of speech......

(Enjoyed a rainstorm and some beers with my wife, its good to be home, sorry about the "eat sh$t)
Click to expand...


I went back and re-read Milks post and I didn't see where he said he'd like to take anything from the troops. Food, ammo, anything.

Here's a little somthing right wing nutjobs never seem to get:

You can oppose an administration AND support the troops at the SAME time!

No really. It works like this...Bush is a tard and got us into a bad situation. The troops that he sent are hard working, patriotic kids that have zero say in what they are ordered to do. I want what is best for America and our troops.

By saying I want our soldiers out of Iraq is not saying anything bad about the troops. By saying the U.S. has "wasted BILLIONS of dollars" is not saying you want to take Jonny GI's food, ammo or mud tents away. It's saying Jonny should not be there. He should be here.

Before you start to aimlessly guess as to how I've never been there or served my Country let me stop you. I've spent 7 years active duty and did 3 tours to the Middle East. I was there for Desert Storm (remember that? in 91?) I'm all for the Military. I'm all for using them when its for National Security. I'm all for Bush going away in 08.
 
glasspilot said:
I went back and re-read Milks post and I didn't see where he said he'd like to take anything from the troops. Food, ammo, anything.

Here's a little somthing right wing nutjobs never seem to get:

You can oppose an administration AND support the troops at the SAME time!

No really. It works like this...Bush is a tard and got us into a bad situation. The troops that he sent are hard working, patriotic kids that have zero say in what they are ordered to do. I want what is best for America and our troops.

By saying I want our soldiers out of Iraq is not saying anything bad about the troops. By saying the U.S. has "wasted BILLIONS of dollars" is not saying you want to take Jonny GI's food, ammo or mud tents away. It's saying Jonny should not be there. He should be here.

Before you start to aimlessly guess as to how I've never been there or served my Country let me stop you. I've spent 7 years active duty and did 3 tours to the Middle East. I was there for Desert Storm (remember that? in 91?) I'm all for the Military. I'm all for using them when its for National Security. I'm all for Bush going away in 08.
Click to expand...

Well said my friend!
 
You aren't the only 2 waiting for 2008

I never questioned Glasses service.

In fact I pmed him about it.

I too am looking for 2008.

I don't agree with alot of what the Commander and Chief has done.

I haven't heard anything of substance coming out of the other side other then "get out now".

The nation is thwarting terrorist attempts on our soil as it is.

What do you think is gonna happen if we "cut and run".

I just don't think the "cumbuya lets be friends" approach is gonna work.

I guess we will see soon enough.

I certainly respect Glasses opinion, he has done 3 tours in the Mid East.

I have done 2 tours, 1 year in Iraq, 1 year in Afghanistan.

I did go back and re-read the thread. The guys weren't knocking the troops.

To Milk and Dooker I apoligise. (I should have paid more attention)

Whether you wanna admit it or not, there are a whole bunch of people in this world that are brainwashed to hate America from an early age.

Bush is out.

Its not a game. I just think the days of playing "nice nice" are gone.

There are alot of armchair quarterbacks, when you see the actual game it takes on a whole new light.

Sorry if I offended anybody, thats my opinion, I earned it, I would love to be proven wrong.
 
glasspilot said:
I was there for Desert Storm (remember that? in 91?) I'm all for the Military.
Click to expand...

Excellent post Glass! I support your comments 100%.


I was there too (3rd Armor Div out of Germany.... remember the Wolf Burgers??)
 
Well said, Glass.

I have never served in the military. With that said, I don't feel I am less patriotic nor less a citizen because I didn't serve. Serving in the military isn't the only way to protect my rights, to protect me from an unjust government, my freedom of speech, or from having illegal search and seizures without due process or warrants (although the last one is weaker now than a couple of years ago).

I supported our government's decision to go to Afganistan after 9/11 (as did most of the world) but believed we were wrong for going to Iraq in '02 (as did most of the world).

Trying to speak out against this administration's actions has been hard because we are labled "unpatriotic", "bleeding heart liberals", and the worst, "not supporting our troops while in harms way".

I support our troops by trying to hold our government accountable. That is my responsibility as a U.S. Citizen, something I am proud of every time I speak and vote.

Retired Generals say that they cannot, due to their military code, speak out against their Commander-in-Chief while in the military but who now speak out against the poor planning of the war in Iraq. So if the generals won't speak out, to prevent the military and its soldiers from being pushed into a conflict that is poorly planned or one that may not be in the best interest of the U.S., who can? Answer: a U.S. Citizen. That's me. And when I do speak, and its against your views, just agree to disagree. Do NOT call me UNPATRIOTIC. Because speaking up is the most PATRIOTIC thing anyone (including ACTIVE Generals) can do.

God Bless our Troops, God Bless all U.S. Citizens, and may God grant the next administration the wisdom to get us outta this mess.
 
Back towards the main topic, I'm very suspect about the user fee bill. Just look at how poorly the FAA has mis-managed so many of their recent technology upgrades. Simply throwing more money their way doesn't look likely to improve the technical side of ATC. Of course, what the airlines really want is less non-airline traffic anywhere near an airport they serve.

It's rather interesting that the airlines create so much congestion and then want someone else to pay the cost to clean up the mess that they, the airlines, created. It's sad that more people can't see that.
 
Guitar Guy said:
Back towards the main topic, I'm very suspect about the user fee bill. Just look at how poorly the FAA has mis-managed so many of their recent technology upgrades. Simply throwing more money their way doesn't look likely to improve the technical side of ATC. Of course, what the airlines really want is less non-airline traffic anywhere near an airport they serve.

It's rather interesting that the airlines create so much congestion and then want someone else to pay the cost to clean up the mess that they, the airlines, created. It's sad that more people can't see that.
Click to expand...

Well said!

Just look at how long the FAA was convinced that microwave navigation was the "wave of the future", and look at how much cash they dumped into that turd when it was obvious to even a casual observer that GPS was vastly superior, cheaper and simpler.

ATC and other required aviation services need to be funded mostly with fuel taxes. This will give people an incentive to save fuel and make gas-guzzlers obsolete more rapidly; all good. After all, you can't (yet) fly an airplane without fuel.

Airports and airport improvements can be paid for by all the taxpayers, same as roads, because everyone in the country benefits from aviation whether they fly or not.

I am developing a considerable amount of hatred for the airlines these days (management/lobbyists, not employees)...

C
 
User fees

Hi Guys,

Just go to the AOPA website to get the real deal. It's a fact that the airlines are trying to blame congestion on general aviation (when's the last time you saw a 172 in ATL). It's also a fact that the system we now have in place funds itself with a surplus every year. Call your congressman and tell him to vote against user fees NOW. Have a good one.
 

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