Traffic Pattern Entry

[mocaman]

I was talking to a CFI the other day and we started talking about traffic patterns. This particular CFI teaches to overfly the airport AT pattern altitude, then basically do a teardrop entry to enter downwind. I have read the FAR's and AIM and according to them this practice is wrong. It says to overfly the airport above TPA, then descend to TPA well clear of the pattern. I am just wondering what the common practice is with people here...Thanks!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I always taught my students to fly 1000' feet above TPA, then descend to TPA before entering the pattern. Overflying at TPA is not smart for obvious reasons.

It's been 6 years since I instructed, so hopefuuly my memory serves right.

 

[vectorvictor]

I would never overfly at pattern altitude! I would over fly well above traffic pattern altitude (1,000ft), find out which way you want to land and enter 45 to the downwind of that runway. I would go a good four or five miles from the field before I turned to enter the downwind. In non-peak times or at night (especially in a single) I would stay closer to the field and might make a crosswind entry or overfly and go directly into the downwind but that would only be if there was no one else on the CTAF and no other traffic was observed. Most jet and turbo prop traffic is going to fly a patter at 1500 ft agl so keep that in mind. Best advice is to keep your eyes open, and make lots of radio calls.

 

[VW Pilot]

RE: Stiffler's mom....But what if your airport is within the lateral boundaries of class B airspace or under???? For a good example of what I mean...take a look at skyvector.com(online sectional charts) Type in KTPA and look for KVDF......what do you do then??? up to but not including........?????

 

[DrewBlows]

RE: Stiffler's mom....But what if your airport is within the lateral boundaries of class B airspace or under???? For a good example of what I mean...take a look at skyvector.com(online sectional charts) Type in KTPA and look for KVDF......what do you do then??? up to but not including........?????

Circumnavigate the airport at an altitude which allows you to remain below the TPA class B. For runway 36 you would have to maneuver to the northwest in order to set up for a 45 degree entry to the downwind.

 

[avbug]

If you're going to overfly the airport above the traffic pattern altitude, have the common sense to fly away from the airport before descending. Too many pilots descend into the traffic pattern, which is far worse than overflying the airport at traffic pattern altitude.

In fact, overflying the airport at TPA isn't a bad thing...descending into the pattern is.

 

[SmokeyAir]

I teach my students Page 9 in the AOPA/ASF "Operations at Non Towered Airports". The teardrop method is the preferred pattern entry and the "over the airport directly into downwind" is the alternate method.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I teach my students Page 9 in the AOPA/ASF "Operations at Non Towered Airports". The teardrop method is the preferred pattern entry and the "over the airport directly into downwind" is the alternate method.

Now in this case as you have described (I don't have a copy of the AOPA/ASF pub) I presume you are describing a teardrop turn to the right to enter on the 45. But wouldn't that be contrary to FAR 91.126 (b)(1) that says when approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower each pilot of any airplane must make all turns to the left. (Except to right traffic runways)

Therefore isn't a teardrop turn to the right for the 45 degree entry a violation of the FAR's?

 

[VNugget]

Therefore isn't a teardrop turn to the right for the 45 degree entry a violation of the FAR's?

The 45 degree entry itself is a violation of the FAR's.:laugh: What now?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The 45 degree entry itself is a violation of the FAR's.:laugh: What now?

At least the 45 degree right turn is discribed in the AIM and AC90-66A so I have no problem with that. It's the right teardrop that is clearly contrary to FAR.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

The objective of all of this is to "see and avoid". All above info is good...but it does depend upon the weather, traffic already in the pattern, airport, etc...

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The objective of all of this is to "see and avoid". All above info is good...but it does depend upon the weather, traffic already in the pattern, airport, etc...

Yes this is all true.

What do you folks think of straight in approaches at non-towered airports? Or entering on base or crosswind?

 

[VNugget]

At least the 45 degree right turn is discribed in the AIM and AC90-66A

You could argue that the right teardrop is not in the vicinity of the airport, as it could (and should) be done a few miles away. (Not that "vicinity" has been defined anywhere)

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

You could argue that the right teardrop is not in the vicinity of the airport, as it could (and should) be done a few miles away. (Not that "vicinity" has been defined anywhere)

There is really nothing about in the vicinity of the airport. It just says, "when approaching an airport for landing, make all turns to the left." So that says a right teardrop is in violation of the FAR. It implies that a straight in is OK, is says that anything but a right turn is OK, but not a big right turn like a teardrop to the right to enter on the 45. If you want to come across the field and into traffic, a left 135 degree turn from a crosswind to a 45 degree entry is OK to, and there is really nothing wrong with simply flying from crosswind to a downwind leg either.

 

[Mooneymite]

VFR pattern entry!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH

Hoo, boy.

I've been aviating for awhile now and this subject is one of those where fifteen pilots will give you thirty-five different opinions...all valid and backed up by lots of quotations!

Seems like each airport has it's own "local expert/public service instructor" who is a real authority until he goes to another airport.

Since most of the info is advisory in nature, there is a reason they call them "uncontrolled airports".

Y'all look out of the cockpit a lot and be real careful.

"HaHaHa....uh, oh, here comes another one....look out! What's he doing?!!!

Is this right traffic, or.....wrong traffic? Wait til I get on the ground!"