ALPA votes 18 to 1 to throw out AAA/AWA award!

[vtwin]

-Total stagnation came after the merger to the titanic. We were hiring 20-30 a month before.
-Yes, 80%, read the thing
-Oh so you guys want to negotiate now after the fact. Sorry sonny it doesn't work that way. We could care less if you rot out East. Don't think that you'll be safe either. Like I said we'll sit back and watch you guys keep hurting yourselves. What are you masochists.

No, there will be no negotiating, just demands made and ultimatums now.
"Sonny?" Real cute, considering I am an old geezer out east.

If we rot out east, so will you, remember where the revenue comes from.
We can't get hurt any worse than we are already by this lopsided award and we intend to fix it. Maybe we will get hurt maybe not, kinda keeps you up
at night huh? What a dancing partner you have.

 

[vtwin]

The stagnation came when airplane deliveries stopped after the merger announcement.

I know, you guys use stupid arguments why can't we?

 

[xanderman]

Umm... You need to read the actual merger policy...

By the way, we expected him to follow the loosely scripted merger policy of no windfalls for either group and, to preserve career expectations also.

While I can understand you are upset you need to realize that the merger policy very clearly states that "no windfalls for either group at the expense of the other." Now if you cannot realize or simply refuse to acknowledge that your company was very near a charbroiled status then this argument will fall on deaf ears. What I mean is this. How can you argue we stole your retirements when your company was not going to provide them anyhow? Career expectations?!? What were they specifically. About what you are doing now right? Not one pilot can say they are going to be in X seat flying X equipment in 10 years let alone 1. Specifically we see that Nicolau saw it this way as well. Windfall? Okay I'll let you call it that. But frankly there was no windfall especially at the expense of your pilot group. You guys were done. Face it. The reality is that all of us are in the same position we were in before the merger was consummated. Narrowbody CPT's are still narrowbody CPT's etc. So I guess you will continue to argue that you had all those retirements coming and that was going to get eveybody back on property and your F/O's were all going to upgrade. Well last time I checked nothing has gone to plan in this career. If you guys can't admit that you were hanging on by a very fine thread then to he!! with you all. I could not care less when it comes to you or your bloated egos...

 

[vtwin]

While I can understand you are upset you need to realize that the merger policy very clearly states that "no windfalls for either group at the expense of the other." Now if you cannot realize or simply refuse to acknowledge that your company was very near a charbroiled status then this argument will fall on deaf ears. What I mean is this. How can you argue we stole your retirements when your company was not going to provide them anyhow? Career expectations?!? What were they specifically. About what you are doing now right? Not one pilot can say they are going to be in X seat flying X equipment in 10 years let alone 1. Specifically we see that Nicolau saw it this way as well. Windfall? Okay I'll let you call it that. But frankly there was no windfall especially at the expense of your pilot group. You guys were done. Face it. The reality is that all of us are in the same position we were in before the merger was consummated. Narrowbody CPT's are still narrowbody CPT's etc. So I guess you will continue to argue that you had all those retirements coming and that was going to get eveybody back on property and your F/O's were all going to upgrade. Well last time I checked nothing has gone to plan in this career. If you guys can't admit that you were hanging on by a very fine thread then to he!! with you all. I could not care less when it comes to you or your bloated egos...

You really believe your garbage don't you? Wrong on every point. Your not benefiting from east retirements in this so called award? Really? Who is paying the price for those? I submit east pilots stapled below you. Your own CEO never undergirded your delusion that you saved us, never. Now your rabid with entitlement. You got lucky with some lunatic who ratified your
greed inside a framework that should work for everybody and a whole lot of
pilots out east are really p-ssed. Apparently 14-1(awa) national ilk know
that their flight pay loss might be in jeopardy if they don't right this wrong.

This list will NEVER stand and is not worth the paper it is printed on, so like I said before, don't go buying that captains house. Take S_itsall to the park
and throw frisbee with him or something else.

For arguements sake even if you saved us and you did not, do we owe you?
You wanna get paid. You where hanging on to a thread also, a training camp for Southwest, and a scab operation down under, so the hell with you also.

 

[Guppiedriver]

The ALPA Executive Board votes 18-1 to throw out the arbitration award. Details to follow........

Tell the truth now. This is actually what happened: The ALPA Executive Council, made up of the ten ALPA Executive Vice Presidents and the four National officers, voted 13 to 1 on Thursday night to order the two parties to meet and discuss the Nicolau award, reporting back to the EC by June 30th.

The arbitration will stand, time to move on.

 

[vtwin]

As long as we don't back down. Letting these sleaze bags push us around would be like capitulating to terrorists. It's not right.

You break into a guys house and protest that he is a sleaze bag pushing you around? Gimme a break

 

[vtwin]

This from a US Air pilot to an HP pilot?? Pot meet Kettle.

No, see the quotation marks? See them?

 

[vtwin]

Tell the truth now. This is actually what happened: The ALPA Executive Council, made up of the ten ALPA Executive Vice Presidents and the four National officers, voted 13 to 1 on Thursday night to order the two parties to meet and discuss the Nicolau award, reporting back to the EC by June 30th.

The arbitration will stand, time to move on.

Maybe it will stand but it will never be implemented. "Time to move on"?
Ummm, don't think that is happening is it? 500 pilots showing up at Herndon the other day, not looking good for just moving on. Pretty representative of some east resolve I would say.

 

[Hpilot]

No, there will be no negotiating, just demands made and ultimatums now.
"Sonny?" Real cute, considering I am an old geezer out east.

If we rot out east, so will you, remember where the revenue comes from.
We can't get hurt any worse than we are already by this lopsided award and we intend to fix it. Maybe we will get hurt maybe not, kinda keeps you up
at night huh? What a dancing partner you have.

The "sonny" was in reference to your obvious mental capacity. Why you can't grasp the word "binding", I don't know.

 

[Hpilot]

You break into a guys house and protest that he is a sleaze bag pushing you around? Gimme a break

What on the earth are you talking about? Unless you're one buff geezer I think you'd have trouble pushing around a 6'3" 220lb young dude. Me thinks you need some serious mental help.

 

[vtwin]

The "sonny" was in reference to your obvious mental capacity. Why you can't grasp the word "binding", I don't know.

Bound by a reasonable approach to seniority integration where both "ALPA" groups share the pain, not just one. Come on Hpilot, you don't think you hit the lottery on this award? You where probably 8 when I hired on
in 1988 and you think I owe you? Would you want 17 years thrown away just because some arbitrator botches an integration award. Bound my ass, all I want is a crummy east coast base and our east retirements to progress, I don't owe you s_it even if you saved us and you did not, just ask Doug.

This list may stand, but we will find a way around it, it will never be implemented. I hear UPS is hiring by the way. I don't envy you guys either.

 

[vtwin]

What on the earth are you talking about? Unless you're one buff geezer I think you'd have trouble pushing around a 6'3" 220lb young dude. Me thinks you need some serious mental help.

Ummm, a figure a speech there, "young dude". An analogy, a word picture. I guess your generation did not need that BS degree to get that job at Mesa did it? Of course I need mental help, everybody who disagrees with you is crazy right? Wow 6'3" 220 and a temper, overcompensating for something? Maybe you need a bigger watch, works for some I hear, don't go the gun route though, please.

 

[vtwin]

[The AWA delusion continues. Play fair? You stole our retirements from us, Nicolau should have utilized conditions and restrictions to prevent that from happening.

14-1(awa) saw a reason to look further into this award, I guess they are not playing fair.]


What a fuxing moron. WhhAAAAAAAAAAA........ You stole ours....... WWWHHHAAAAAAAAA Play Fair? Whhaaaaaaaaaaaa You, Mr. Tool, are an idiot. It was 18-1 to delay the inevitable for you numbnutz to back down. Delusional? Denial? Anger? Hostile? Bitter? You name it. It is Not AWA.

Hey S_itsall how is it going? Coming rapidly unglued again? No backing down,
sorry, not his time. Tough luck. How is the mister? Cheers.

 

[xanderman]

This list will NEVER stand and is not worth the paper it is printed on, so like I said before, don't go buying that captains house. Take S_itsall to the park
and throw frisbee with him or something else.

For arguements sake even if you saved us and you did not, do we owe you?
You wanna get paid. You where hanging on to a thread also, a training camp for Southwest, and a scab operation down under, so the hell with you also.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume you are furloughed. I can see that you believe you are entitled to something. What is it exactly? Is it that you should make an AWA pilot pay for all the wrongs you suffered during your bankruptcies. I mean c'mon. What you really want is for an East furloughed pilot to be slotted in above active AWA pilots. Why? Did I or any of my cronies here push your company to the brink of extinction and cause you to be furloughed? Tell me, if U had not merged with AWA then do you really believe that you would be looking forward to coming back to work? Thin ice to make that arguement on! Maybe you guys (read "furloughed pilots") will push to have ALPA kicked off the property but in the end it will fail. Your senior pilots have eaten your young before and they will do it again.

And for the record I do not believe we saved anybody.

Andy

P.S. If in fact you are furloughed, did you apply anywhere else? Are you working now? If so where?

 

[vtwin]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume you are furloughed. I can see that you believe you are entitled to something. What is it exactly? Is it that you should make an AWA pilot pay for all the wrongs you suffered during your bankruptcies. I mean c'mon. What you really want is for an East furloughed pilot to be slotted in above active AWA pilots. Why? Did I or any of my cronies here push your company to the brink of extinction and cause you to be furloughed? Tell me, if U had not merged with AWA then do you really believe that you would be looking forward to coming back to work? Thin ice to make that arguement on! Maybe you guys (read "furloughed pilots") will push to have ALPA kicked off the property but in the end it will fail. Your senior pilots have eaten your young before and they will do it again.

And for the record I do not believe we saved anybody.

Andy

P.S. If in fact you are furloughed, did you apply anywhere else? Are you working now? If so where?

Entitled to our east retirements. We brought that to this party.
You don't believe you saved us yet you intimate in your post we would not have the chance to come back unless AWA got involved. East furloughed should benefit from east retirements out east. Conditions and restrictions, fences. My personal business is just that personal. Yes I am furloughed, and yes I have bypassed recall. Probably will never come back, but have my convictions and principles and am quite bored at the moment on a long dull layover.

By the way, get a real scoot, ride a Harley.

 

[PositiveRate]

vtwin,

What in the world is your problem? Somebody piss in your Cheerios this morning? I'm not going to fight or stoop to your level...I just want to point out some basic and very important items.

1) The list is going to stand. I don't say that because I'm proud, happy, or wish any of you ill will...it just is what it is. I think both side wish this merger had never happened, but we weren't consulted and our opinions would have been ignored if we had been.

2) The only way to greener pastures for either side is to fight together for a better contract. We are not adversaries - as much as you want someone to blame, it's not us.

3) The chants of union decertification, stall tactics and the list never being implemented....that may make you feel powerful, but the reality is we're all f'd if this continues much longer.

We will not get raises, our work rules will continue to be abused and we will be whipsawed against each other ad nuaseam.

Management will dance on our backs over and over again on their way to the bank while we argue about who is providing them more revenue because we're still working for $hit wages as a result of choosing to fight a losing batter against each other.

This scenario will happen if we continue down this road - with the East now withdrawn from JNC talks, all of our fates may be sealed.

In my wildest dreams I can't imagine why you'd want to hurt your side in order to keep the list from being implimented. You're fooling yourself if you think you can have it both ways...

 

[Heavy Set]

The East guys are a bunch of babies. An Arbitrator, which was agreed upon by both groups, ruled the award. That's it. End of story. Quit crying you spolied brats. Too bad so sad.

 

[PositiveRate]

$hit...you're furloughed?? That makes more sense now...I think there is a reason we don't see these kind of posts from active East guys. The most flaming mad stuff has come from furloughed, retired or family of retired.

"You where probably 8 when I hired on in 1988 and you think I owe you? Would you want 17 years thrown away just because some arbitrator botches an integration award. "

You've got it all wrong. You're 17 yrs unfortunately brought nothing to the table in May, 2005. Your time in service had depreciated to zero worth and that does suck and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy - BUT, that was the reality. You got put in a fair place on the list. You did not deserve to go in front of even one active pilot.

Like I said before...the only way forward is a unified fight for a new contract.

 

[Heavy Set]

You will never be able to make the East guys happy.

 

[xanderman]

By the way, get a real scoot, ride a Harley.

Hey now you are gonna piss me off!!! Just kidding... Triumph provides the quality and price that is right for me. Not a big fan of the Japanese stuff. Not that it is bad but it seems eveyone has one. Harley makes you survive some kind of ritualistic beating before you are allowed to purchase one. I'm no fighter... BTW how come you harley pukes never wave? Are you too good or something?