Turned down a CAL job offer today

[Heavy Set]

You look at first year pay, but have you considered 4th year pay as a captain at CAL? Or maybe you just want to sit on the 777 at $99 an hour at that point (if I remember right). It's not even a long shot, and since it appears your decision is monetarily based, you would have looked at this, no? It really negates the 1st year pay in the decision making process you used in your post.

If you're wanting to go to UAL, uh...you're going to start at low pay rates, too, and their contract is up in '09, merger talks are dying down but they are in a rough spot to come in as a newhire. By the time you were hired there, it is likely to be 6 months to a year from now anyway....time you could have been ticking off at CAL. That first year pay at all airlines is so similar....even F9 is in the 30/hr range. It isn't acceptable, but I can't see how it's a deciding factor. It is really more of a 'that's really going to suck' factor.

What if you don't want to be based in EWR? What if you want to live somewhere west of there? That 3 or 4 year upgrade to captain is only available in EWR I would bet, so if you want to live anywhere west of there that upgrade would not be there. How long until you can hold a widebody in IAH as an fo? Probably a lot longer than EWR. So, a lot of the Continental upgrading and moving up to widebody has to be done in EWR, which may not be for everyone. If you want to live in IAH or commute from somewhere on the West Coast, it looks like you will stay on the 737 for awhile in IAH. How senior is 777 FO or 757/767 FO in IAH?

 

[Powda5]

Since his decision seemed monetarily based, I assumed he would chase money, so I posted relative to EWR.

75-767 fo in IAH goes junior--to newhires, even. 777 fo in IAH is more senior than 737 ca.

737 ca in IAH is 5 years, if I figured right.

I live west and commute to IAH as well. I tried EWR...no fun commuting.

 

[MECH]

Since his decision seemed monetarily based, I assumed he would chase money, so I posted relative to EWR.

75-767 fo in IAH goes junior--to newhires, even. 777 fo in IAH is more senior than 737 ca.

737 ca in IAH is 5 years, if I figured right.

I live west and commute to IAH as well. I tried EWR...no fun commuting.

757 in IAH is not junior. There has not been a new hire going to the 757 in IAH for over a year now.

As for the amount of time it will take, to get your money back. I think it will less then 10 years. Yes the pay rates suck from year 1 to 5. But you can still make 65,000 to 75,000 year 2 on the 757. And by year 3 be at 85,000 plus. If you cost it out it takes about 5 years to get back what you lost the first year.

I think everyone is basing their numbers on being a reserve pilot. New hires are on reserve an average of 8 weeks. In EWR it is only 6 weeks of reserve.

There is also contract 08 coming up right away. With the new union leadership and all the new pilots, things good get alot better here!!

 

[Heavy Set]

Since his decision seemed monetarily based, I assumed he would chase money, so I posted relative to EWR.

75-767 fo in IAH goes junior--to newhires, even. 777 fo in IAH is more senior than 737 ca.

737 ca in IAH is 5 years, if I figured right.

I live west and commute to IAH as well. I tried EWR...no fun commuting.

So, I guess you won't be taking the early command in EWR since you want to live west. I think there are a lot of people who don't want to live close to EWR, and a commute there may be tough. That throws the early captain upgrades out for a lot of people who want to live somewhere else. If you live near EWR though, you have won the lottery. How big is the IAH 757/767 category? It seems like most of your widebody flying is out of EWR.

 

[ToThePain]

I never thought I would be turning down a job offer from a legacy airline, but I turned down a CAL job today to hold out for a better airline.

I've heard of too many people leaving there recently, and I cannot bring myself to take the massive pay-cut and no insurance for 6-months when I know that I can probably get an interview with SWA, UPS, FedEx, DAL, UAL, etc. in the near future.

I am making good money right now, so I would rather not settle for working under such a horrible contract. I agree that it will probably get better there, but probably not for a while.

Am I going to regret it?

This has to be flame bait but I'll reply anyway. Why did you go through the effort of getting hired at CAL, i.e the interview and sim work if you didn't want the job? With one thread search you could have discovered everything you needed to know about the insurance offered the first 6 months and that while not great would get you by. I'm not saying CAL is the only place to work or the best but you don't seem to have any plan.
How do you plan on getting an interview with SWA, UPS, FedEx, DAL, or UAL? Do you know people that can push your resume? SWA is a great company to work for but seem to only hire about 1/3 of their applicants and thats only if they call you for an interview. After that you need the type which will add on to the time it will take to get hired, unless you are willing to get a type now, but thats 5k-6k out the window with no promise of a job.
UPS and FED EX are great companies but are also very competitive to get on with. Unless you are negligent on updating your overall hours listed on this board you have little to no chance on getting called up for an interview. There are plenty of guys that have over 3k multi engine plane commander time that are waiting to get called, and then theres always that pesky "needing someone inside" to walk your package through.
UAL is struggling right now but will turn it around. There starting pay is the same as CAL but they still have 700 on furlough. Deltas starting pay is better but you HAVE to have someone walk your stuff through, I know this because a guy from my squadron just got hired there. American's pay is 35/hour starting and they still have 2500 furloughed. Northwest is $30/hour with 1500 on furlough.
All this time you are waiting and you will not get a seniority number, will not be a part of contract negotiations with any of these carriers. In the second year at CAL you could be making $72/hour as a B777 FO. Yes its possible because I just started year 2 and am finishing up training as we speak. They hired 8 new people into the 777 in January.
Just my opinion......

 

[lrn2fly]

Sorry for the small thread highjack... but will CAL hire without the 4 year college degree if you have quality flight time. I know its not required but I hear they will not hire you. It's my dream job and its discouraging even with 90 credits done because thats still several years away from being completed at part time status and Im already 38.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

They will, if you have an excellent letter or something way up and above. But right now they have over 28000 apps on file. (That's coming from my brothers wife's, sister, who is sleeping with the cabbie drivers sister(ya, it's cheating) who went to a party with the this guy who said he was a pilot to get her into the sack. Whatever. They do hire people without them, but you are fighting an uphill battle right now. Keep going. Don't stop, get the earliest degree you can. Don't try the 5 year full doctoral plan. Underwater basket weaving. Who cares, just keep trucking. Good Luck.

 

[turbinej]

You don't have to pay cobra, you get temp insurance and that cost my family 100 dollars a month. A lot of state have programs for the kids for full 100% coverage through Blue Cross Blue Shield. That was $5 a month for unlimited kids. Once the year is over life gets better. I though of the same process as you Pocono pilot, but went ahead and took the job and don't regret it either. Look at other legacy airlines their pay is not much better first year anyways except DAL and AA

 

[minrest]

I think that the fact that you are currently at XJT has a lot to do with your perception of life at CAL. XJT has probably 60 to 70 pilots that turned down the flow through to CAL a couple of years ago. Most of these pilots did so because of fear of the unknown. CAL was on the verge of bankruptsy and had just signed a concessionary contract. XJT was doing well financially and had an industry leading contract. I believe (actually I know in a few cases) that most of these pilots if they had the chance to do it again would go to CAL in a heartbeat.

Misery loves company. While probably unintentional, these guys are very persuasive at disseminating their opinions of the virtues of staying at Express vs. going to CAL. Many of them are Chief Pilots, check airmen, and management. They, along with the 3,000 other XJT pilots that feel slighted due to the loss of CPA simply take a lot of rumors and half-truths and blow them up.

As for the pilots that have gone to CAL. We tend not to tell those who remained at XJT how much we enjoy our jobs (by the way, I don't speak for everyone. Some people are unhappy and always will be). We have a lot of friends that stayed at XJT and feel that telling them possitive aspects of life at CAL is similar to telling your best friend how much you enjoy sleeping with the girl they could have had.

If it truly was your dream to work at CAL then why the heck wouldn't you go and check it out rather than listen to rumors?

Also, what do your friend(s) that sponsored you to get hired at CAL have to say?

-minrest

 

[bearcat]

So, I guess you won't be taking the early command in EWR since you want to live west. I think there are a lot of people who don't want to live close to EWR, and a commute there may be tough. That throws the early captain upgrades out for a lot of people who want to live somewhere else. If you live near EWR though, you have won the lottery. How big is the IAH 757/767 category? It seems like most of your widebody flying is out of EWR.

If you are going to commute what is the difference where you commute to? I can tell you from someone who has and had terrible/ not so terrible commutes that 5 hours in a J/S is just as bad as 2. You still have the anus pain of the commute.....you may as well commute to the junior domicile....within reason. The commute to the 737 ewr is terrible. Much better in IAH, but everything else is very commutable.

The bottom line with this thread is who would hold out?? What makes you think that when you hold out for someone else that they are going to extend a job offer to you?? If you are gung hu on SWA b/c you live in PHX...smart decision....they will re-interview you. If you live in LAX and you turned down the offer....I would say you aren't very smart, but that is me. In less than 2 years I am nearly 20% up the seniority list at CAL. Great company, great future (for now) and enourmous movement....regardless of age 65.

Good luck

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Guys, geez! I am not trying to badmouth CAL or anyone else.

The main reason is that I didn't want to take a massive paycut from my current job to go to CAL only to leave for another airline, if they call that is.

I can still make 70k or so while waiting for another airline to call, as opposed to waiting for another airline while flying at CAL for such a paycut.

Also, it concerns me that many new hires (from what I hear) are actually leaving CAL in the first few years to go elsewhere. Yes, that concerns me and it affects my decision. Why are they all leaving?

Finally, I have ALWAYS wanted to go to CAL, but now that many other airines are hiring, I am thinking that I might have a chance elsewhere. Maybe not, but maybe. And I won't have to live with no insurance and a big paycut while I figure it all out.

Sorry if I offended, but it was a big decision, and I sincerely hope that I don't regret it.

I wish you would have talked to me before you turned down the job. I have a lot info and have flown with many ex exjet pilots who are very happy. You could always leave for something else. I have heard some of pilots who were in the Schindlers list (113) that turned down CAL because of the same reasons you did regret it today when they see how fast there peers have moved up in such a short time.

As far as the contract look at Fedex that is what we are going for. Will we be successful only time will tell but I wouldn't be dedicating significant time to a union position if I didn't believe it was attainable. We are looking for a contract by early 09 company wants by 12 or 13 will see if our pilots are ready to poke the company in the eye and for once fight for a real contract.

Good luck.

 

[samballs]

Guys, geez! I am not trying to badmouth CAL or anyone else.

The main reason is that I didn't want to take a massive paycut from my current job to go to CAL only to leave for another airline, if they call that is.

I can still make 70k or so while waiting for another airline to call, as opposed to waiting for another airline while flying at CAL for such a paycut.

Also, it concerns me that many new hires (from what I hear) are actually leaving CAL in the first few years to go elsewhere. Yes, that concerns me and it affects my decision. Why are they all leaving?

Finally, I have ALWAYS wanted to go to CAL, but now that many other airines are hiring, I am thinking that I might have a chance elsewhere. Maybe not, but maybe. And I won't have to live with no insurance and a big paycut while I figure it all out.

Sorry if I offended, but it was a big decision, and I sincerely hope that I don't regret it.

What are your plans if no other airline calls? XJT may be good now but look how things have changed for you in the last year, if that flying doesn't work then your company will be in trouble and things won't be so rosy at XJT. I'd say it was a bad choice since you seem to think you can get a job anywhere..

 

[ferlo]

Make sure you tell them why. I wonder if they even care?

You can stop your wondering, they don't give a rat's azz.

 

[Lear70]

The guy hasn't posted again since the first day.

It's flame bait, guys... let it go.

 

[Captain X]

I cannot bring myself to take the massive pay-cut and no insurance for 6-months when I know that I can probably get an interview with SWA, UPS, FedEx, DAL, UAL, etc. in the near future.

I am making good money right now, so I would rather not settle for working under such a horrible contract. I agree that it will probably get better there, but probably not for a while.

Am I going to regret it?

Assuming you really were asking -- but skeptically thinking you weren't...

Never look a gift horse in the mouth.

If you really wanna go to a major, I imagine that the longer you wait the larger of a paycut you will take regardless of where you go.

Plus, a guy who has turbine PIC + time flying a Boeing or a Bus at a major carrier is most likely gonna get called for an interview at another before the guy that has turbine PIC and only time in a 145/CRJ. Just my opinion of course but based on what I've seen....

 

[Malter1]

I never thought I would be turning down a job offer from a legacy airline, but I turned down a CAL job today to hold out for a better airline.

I've heard of too many people leaving there recently, and I cannot bring myself to take the massive pay-cut and no insurance for 6-months when I know that I can probably get an interview with SWA, UPS, FedEx, DAL, UAL, etc. in the near future.

You're like, full of crap...........Ma'an.