ASA No Flap Ldg in SBN

[cubflyr]

Beautiful no flap landing by ASA in SBN this afternoon. Very nice job folks. What's a typical landing weight, no-flap Ref speed in a CRJ?

 

[FmrFreightDog]

47,000 lb landing ref is 172 kts.

 

[DoinTime]

IMO the CRJ lands better without flaps.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

.....

 

[FmrFreightDog]

IMO the CRJ lands better without flaps.

Until you try to land it at 0 flap and forget to arm the GLDs (which I may have done once). That gets interesting. Think skipping a stone across a pond!

 

[DoinTime]

Until you try to land it at 0 flap and forget to arm the GLDs (which I may have done once). That gets interesting. Think skipping a stone across a pond!

Why would you have ever disarmed the GLD's?

 

[WMUSIGPI]

guess those flaps don't do a lot for the CRJ... The Avro would go from about 120 with to about 200 at flap 0. Anyone know what the 744 would be no flaps?

 

[goahead]

Why would you have ever disarmed the GLD's?

Yea no shi_t

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Until you try to land it at 0 flap and forget to arm the GLDs (which I may have done once). That gets interesting. Think skipping a stone across a pond!

Idiot. Why would you disarm them. Fcuk, now you know why mngmt thinks so little of you ASAholes.

 

[Avpilot]

I've done this in the ERJ with passengers and stuff. I think our final speed was around 163 or 165, I don't remember which. It wasn't a big deal...I think the ERJ generally has better slow speed characteristics than a lot of jets. That speed was actually a good 30 or 35 knots above stall, whereas on a normal landing we may be 15 or so knots from it.
Tim

 

[kingairpilot]

IMO the CRJ lands better without flaps.

ditto.

but it does really screw up your landing flow. There you are, all fat dumb and happy, checklist complete, trucks out...wondering why the beeeeeaaacccchhhh won't slow down on final...oh...Gear Down.

ka

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What are flaps?

 

[Edge540]

What are flaps?

Flaps




....

 

[Mongolikecandy]

Flaps




....

Quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever seen on FI.
BTW... Best landing I ever had in the RJ was at flaps 20.

 

[Sawmill]

Classic Edge540!

 

[Thermocouple]

I've done this in the ERJ with passengers and stuff. I think our final speed was around 163 or 165, I don't remember which. It wasn't a big deal...I think the ERJ generally has better slow speed characteristics than a lot of jets. That speed was actually a good 30 or 35 knots above stall, whereas on a normal landing we may be 15 or so knots from it.
Tim

Per part 25, the minimum ref speed for the certification of a transport category aircraft is 1.23 times VSO. That means if you have a 135kt ref and likely a min approach speed of 140, then you have a stall speed no higher than 110 kts, which is a 30 kt spread.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Idiot. Why would you disarm them. Fcuk, now you know why mngmt thinks so little of you ASAholes.

Actually, "I" didn't disarm them. They were disarmed somehow by the new guy I had with me, I assume during the after takeoff check when he was switching the reversers off. So, yes, it's my fault I didn't see the status message, especially after the flaps failed on approach. Then again, it was a CHA-ATL flight, so it's not like I flew around for 2 hours without noticing the message. Either way, I think "idiot" might be a bit harsh. Come to think of it, "ASAhole" might be a bit harsh also. Admittedly, I misspoke in my first post when I said "forgot to arm", so I understand the confusion. Then again, you might be just be a turd. Who knows?

 

[stooge]

Flaps




....

wow

just wow

 

[DoinTime]

...I think the ERJ generally has better slow speed characteristics than a lot of jets.

Thats because the ERJ is actually a turboprop.

 

[N813CA]

Max tire speed is 182. So hopefully it is lower than that.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Actually, "I" didn't disarm them. They were disarmed somehow by the new guy I had with me, I assume during the after takeoff check when he was switching the reversers off. So, yes, it's my fault I didn't see the status message, especially after the flaps failed on approach. Then again, it was a CHA-ATL flight, so it's not like I flew around for 2 hours without noticing the message. Either way, I think "idiot" might be a bit harsh. Come to think of it, "ASAhole" might be a bit harsh also. Admittedly, I misspoke in my first post when I said "forgot to arm", so I understand the confusion. Then again, you might be just be a turd. Who knows?

A turd that notices where the GLD sw. is at...

 

[Avpilot]

Per part 25, the minimum ref speed for the certification of a transport category aircraft is 1.23 times VSO. That means if you have a 135kt ref and likely a min approach speed of 140, then you have a stall speed no higher than 110 kts, which is a 30 kt spread.

I have a lot of approaches at lower weights after coming from Houston to Boise or somewhere far that are in the 1 teens..apprch speed of say 117 or 119. The 135's also have lots of cases where the speeds are low like that. That would be about 18 or 19 knots above Vso....sorry it isn't 15. It was a guess...a ballpark number. My bad. Forgive me please.

 

[fareview]

guess those flaps don't do a lot for the CRJ... The Avro would go from about 120 with to about 200 at flap 0. Anyone know what the 744 would be no flaps?

744 Max ldg wt, no flaps = 233

 

[TX_DFW]

This seems to be a fairly common occourence lately. I did one in 920 about a week ago.

 

[Papa Woody]

The CRJ has some serious flap issues.

In the past 2 years, there have been more diversions due to "FLAP FAIL" than there have been due to weather.

Inasmuch as we carry alternate fuel to satify the FAR 91 requirement in case of diversion, shouldn't we be also carrying extra fuel for the more likely contingency?

Proposed FAR amendment for CRJ operators:
FAR 91.xxx IFR fuel requirements "Fly to the planned destination, miss the approach, then fly to a VFR airport with at least a 10,000 ft runway in case of flap failure"

 

[180ToTheMarker]

What are flaps?

F.L.A.P.s. = F'ckin Light Airplane Pilots

 

[tuna pimp]

I was on an ASA flight a couple of months ago that did a no flapper into YYZ. Captain did an outstanding job explaining the situation to the passengers; what to expect (shallower approach, higher speed, agressive braking, fire engines etc). Flight attendant did an extra strict job securing the cabin.

Absolute professionalism on both sides of the cockpit door from this ASA crew.

Captain greased the landing too.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

A turd that notices where the GLD sw. is at...

touche.

 

[wmuflyguy]

I was on an ASA flight a couple of months ago that did a no flapper into YYZ. Captain did an outstanding job explaining the situation to the passengers; what to expect (shallower approach, higher speed, agressive braking, fire engines etc). Flight attendant did an extra strict job securing the cabin.

Absolute professionalism on both sides of the cockpit door from this ASA crew.

Captain greased the landing too.

How do you know the FO wasn't the one that landed?

 

[captainv]

Proposed FAR amendment for CRJ operators:
FAR 91.xxx IFR fuel requirements "Fly to the planned destination, miss the approach, then fly to a VFR airport with at least a 10,000 ft runway in case of flap failure"

where's the fun in that? a zero-flap to 31 in LGA at night, now that's a good time.

truth be told, the winds were 310 @ 30, so it felt just like a normal approach. Captain greased it too.