Skywest..ALPA?

[CFIT]

Anybody know the timeline for the actual vote, or is ALPA looking to garner more support before a vote is announced?

 

[John Pennekamp]

Anybody know the timeline for the actual vote, or is ALPA looking to garner more support before a vote is announced?

Vote expected late summer to early fall. Alpa is waiting to get 70%+ of the cards back.

 

[Brazilgun]

Any of the "other airlines" ALPA pilots here, tell me something:
Why does ALPA care so much for SKYW? Why do they want ALPA here? Is it because we need a better contract? Is it because we need better quality of life?
Somebody posted that PBS is giving you 6 on 2 off? Show me how many lines are 6 on 2 off. Plus, what are you bidding? If they are bidding for "max flight/block hours" they are getting what they are asking for. I came from MESA( an ALPA carrier for those that don't know). 10 year captains could hold a line at the most junior base (IAD), but only 6 on 2 off. That's 10 years a ALPA carrier. What has ALPA done for them? NOTHING!
Don't give me that crap that ALPA is trying to come over here because they care for our quality of life.
I said it once and I will say it again. If they care that much, spend their time and efforts on those airlines that they already represent and THEN come talk to us.
Is because they want us to be "part of the brotherhood"? To be united together? How come I don't see an ALPA drive @ UPS? @ SWA? Are they not good enough to be part of the "brotherhood"?:angryfire

 

[ERJFO]

Any of the "other airlines" ALPA pilots here, tell me something:
Why does ALPA care so much for SKYW? Why do they want ALPA here? Is it because we need a better contract? Is it because we need better quality of life?
Somebody posted that PBS is giving you 6 on 2 off? Show me how many lines are 6 on 2 off. Plus, what are you bidding? If they are bidding for "max flight/block hours" they are getting what they are asking for. I came from MESA( an ALPA carrier for those that don't know). 10 year captains could hold a line at the most junior base (IAD), but only 6 on 2 off. That's 10 years a ALPA carrier. What has ALPA done for them? NOTHING!
Don't give me that crap that ALPA is trying to come over here because they care for our quality of life.
I said it once and I will say it again. If they care that much, spend their time and efforts on those airlines that they already represent and THEN come talk to us.
Is because they want us to be "part of the brotherhood"? To be united together? How come I don't see an ALPA drive @ UPS? @ SWA? Are they not good enough to be part of the "brotherhood"?:angryfire

Other ALPA pilots believe that your non-union airline is more competitive when it comes to reciving CPA's and view your ALPA drive as self survival for them more than yourselfs.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Hey Brazilgun, one airline at a time man. Big differences, JA is far from being JO. I truly suspect JO is gonna reap what he has sown` in his next round of negotiations. I dont think he's gonna like it either. Skywest pilots can remain on good terms with Mgmt and still have a union if they want.

As far as Hellonewman goes- I hear Go-Jet is hiring. Why don't you go over there and get YOUR quick upgrade. Then YOU can try to move on to a major where YOU will gladly join ALPA and be come one of their biggest advocates. YOU know YOU'LL do it. It's really easy to see your kind coming man- It's all about YOU isn't it?

 

[VeeOne]

Any of the "other airlines" ALPA pilots here, tell me something:
Why does ALPA care so much for SKYW? Why do they want ALPA here? Is it because we need a better contract? Is it because we need better quality of life?
Somebody posted that PBS is giving you 6 on 2 off? Show me how many lines are 6 on 2 off. Plus, what are you bidding? If they are bidding for "max flight/block hours" they are getting what they are asking for. I came from MESA( an ALPA carrier for those that don't know). 10 year captains could hold a line at the most junior base (IAD), but only 6 on 2 off. That's 10 years a ALPA carrier. What has ALPA done for them? NOTHING!
Don't give me that crap that ALPA is trying to come over here because they care for our quality of life.
I said it once and I will say it again. If they care that much, spend their time and efforts on those airlines that they already represent and THEN come talk to us.
Is because they want us to be "part of the brotherhood"? To be united together? How come I don't see an ALPA drive @ UPS? @ SWA? Are they not good enough to be part of the "brotherhood"?:angryfire

Here's one for ya- ALPA contributes greatly to US policy in regards to air travel and politics- as do many of the other unions at SWA, UPS, AA....... If it weren't for ALPA, Aeromexico would be bouncing around inside the US, undercutting every American airfare, and paying it's pilots pennies.....

How about we all stand togeather to get things done across the board, at ALL carriers. For some reason you are thinking ALPA is a menacing enemy that is there to rape and pillage- simply not true. Honestly, I highly recommend reading "Flying the Line", it should clue you in to what your bretheren have fought hard for over the past years, and what we can expect in years to come.

 

[Ski Bum]

All I hear is “what has ALPA done for me” / “what has ALPA done for other airlines”…instead, to echo an often quoted President… “what can I do for ALPA?” ALPA is a professional organization that promotes the airline pilots’ viewpoint to airline managements, to the general public and to our elected officials in DC. It is an organization made up of primarily volunteers dedicated to safety, raising the standards of OUR lives, and pay industry-wide. ALPA is involved in lawmaking, aeromedical issues, development of aircraft, and in each of our lives to a certain extent whether we are ALPA or not.
As a pilot who has been furloughed from strong union carrier and now finds themselves at a non-union shop, I can say that I hope ALPA succeeds in their goals of unifying the PROFESSION and not caving in to the “what has ALPA done for me” selfishness.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Well said skibum- I've used JFk's quote in this argument before as well.

 

[ifly34]

[quote from fins]

The SkyWest pilots have not seen the local benefits of ALPA and just because you are ALPA doesn't mean it is a hostile work environment. JetExpress seems to have a good relationship with management and they are working together to do some interesting things. It seems FedEx guys are pretty happy and even the most militant arm of ALPA, Delta pilots, are happy(ier) these days.

You are right. Just because you have ALPA doesn't mean there is a hostile working environment. But, the original reason unions exist (including ALPA) was to combat hostile working environments. That is why you got a union. Not hostile, no need for union.

Yes ExressJet has a good relationship, but from what I understand it wasn't always that way.

Please don't compare anything (good or bad) between any mainline/major and the regionals. It is an apples to oranges comparison and I think the problem at hand. I don't think ALPA can or has fairly represented the regional airlines. It is too often that the regional is pitted against the mainline. It is like going to court using the same attorney the other side has.

In the history of our profession there have always been pilots like Hello Newman. The Air Mail pilots used to suffer a mortality rate which once reached 80%. When 10 other more experienced pilots determined a flight was too risky - there was a Hello Newman willing to launch. Today there is always a Hello Newman who is eager to run over and try to undercut a pilot who has negotiated a raise, or better working conditions. Hello Newman is simply out for himself.

Always has been and always will be. ALPA hasn't been able to anything about it. What is your point?

To want to belong to ALPA is to want something more for your profession. To want to work with other professionals to raise the standards in your industry.

Then why is everyone selling ALPA by saying it can take care of you if you have an accident, get fired, lose your medical, fail a PC, etc. Those all seem to be very me, me, me. Make up your minds. Is ALPA here to help the profession or the individual?

Today we face a crisis in the United States. US airlines are understaffed and working conditions at airlines in China, India and the Arabian desert are better jobs than flying in the nation that invented powered flight. This is a crisis brought about by alter ego replacement flying which now makes up as much as 49% of some major carrier's block hours. The only way to face this problem and make for a more stable future is to come together in such a way that a pilot's concessionary pay is not the factor which decides which airlines prosper and which airlines fail.

Yes, understaffed. Meaning supply and demand will take care of a lot of pay and QOL issues at airlines. And I'm sure ALPA will be happy to say it was only because of them.

And the pilots at the majors have found a way to control what happens at the airlines that fly the 49%. Through ALPA national. It doesn't matter what deal/agreement/contract that your local MEC makes (even if 100% of the pilots and management agree to it), if it is not signed by national, it won't go into effect.

We can not afford to leave part of this profession behind. With 49% of the mainline flying having been put out to bid there are fewer mainline jobs for us to "escape" to. With no brand, our leased airplanes can be transferred as fast as new, cheap, replacement labor can be trained.

Leaving the regionals behind at the expense of the majors is what using the same union for representation is what this is all about.

ALPA is the only effective way to coordinate a response amongst pilot groups.

My opinion, ALPA has not been that effective with this.

Is ALPA perfect, no. But is there a better solution to the Hello Newman factor? The way I see it, ALPA is the only way to work together to raise our profession.

ALPA has been around for a long time. We still have these issues. What does that say about ALPAs effectiveness?

 

[Brazilgun]

Skywest pilots can remain on good terms with Mgmt and still have a union if they want.

I hope you're correct. I don't think that will be the case though. As soon as we put a UNION here I believe mgmt will change the way they deal with the pilot group.

 

[Brazilgun]

How about we all stand togeather to get things done across the board, at ALL carriers. For some reason you are thinking ALPA is a menacing enemy that is there to rape and pillage- simply not true.

I agree with you 100%. We should stand together as a big group. But why do we HAVE to be ALPA to stand together? It sounds to me that everybody thinks skwy pilots are worthless unless they have ALPA.

 

[Brazilgun]

Other ALPA pilots believe that your non-union airline is more competitive when it comes to reciving CPA's and view your ALPA drive as self survival for them more than yourselfs.

ERJFO, You have a good point. I understand that it is a fear many pilots have. I just don't think it is all true. Mesa just got awarded 14 CRJ's for Delta. Mesa also had bid for the midwest flying. They were cheaper than SKYW. The reason SKYW got that contract is because of a superior service, not because we were non-union. CHQ, SKYW, MESA bid for the continental flying, but CHQ got it. They are Union.
I just don't find the facts to back up the theory that our non-union airline is hurting other airlines strictly because we are non-union.

 

[CFIT]

Has anybody thought about how bad it will be at SkyWest if we get ALPA voted until the time we have our first contract?

And judging by the blazing pace at ASA, let optimistically say 4 years. The now Policy Manual becomes the defacto contract until a new is negotiated and voted in.

So how do all you ALPA advocates expect to get another job somewhere else when you've been fired from SkyWest? Because I can tell you that for some of you on the OC, that's just what is going to happen.

Good Luck-

 

[Shrek]

Any of the "other airlines" ALPA pilots here, tell me something:
Why does ALPA care so much for SKYW? Why do they want ALPA here? Is it because we need a better contract? Is it because we need better quality of life?
Somebody posted that PBS is giving you 6 on 2 off? Show me how many lines are 6 on 2 off. Plus, what are you bidding? If they are bidding for "max flight/block hours" they are getting what they are asking for. I came from MESA( an ALPA carrier for those that don't know). 10 year captains could hold a line at the most junior base (IAD), but only 6 on 2 off. That's 10 years a ALPA carrier. What has ALPA done for them? NOTHING!
Don't give me that crap that ALPA is trying to come over here because they care for our quality of life.
I said it once and I will say it again. If they care that much, spend their time and efforts on those airlines that they already represent and THEN come talk to us.
Is because they want us to be "part of the brotherhood"? To be united together? How come I don't see an ALPA drive @ UPS? @ SWA? Are they not good enough to be part of the "brotherhood"?:angryfire

THAT was the cost of killing Freedom's seperate list. But you KNEW that and try to blame ALPA for it.......

BLAME JO.

OR you can BLAME RAMOS..........everybody at TSA does

 

[JoeMerchant]

THAT was the cost of killing Freedom's seperate list. But you KNEW that and try to blame ALPA for it.......

BLAME JO.

OR you can BLAME RAMOS..........everybody at TSA does

Freedom wouldn't have been created if the USAir scope clause hadn't restricted Mesa from operating the 900s for America West.... but then you KNEW that and try to cover for ALPA's failed scope policies. Sure JO took advantage of the situation, but that should have been anticipated.... something ALPA is very poor at........

 

[Positive Rate]

Any of the "other airlines" ALPA pilots here, tell me something:
Why does ALPA care so much for SKYW? Why do they want ALPA here?

2% of over 2500 pilots pay checks....is a good start.

 

[SSDD]

Has anybody thought about how bad it will be at SkyWest if we get ALPA voted until the time we have our first contract?

And judging by the blazing pace at ASA, let optimistically say 4 years. The now Policy Manual becomes the defacto contract until a new is negotiated and voted in.

So how do all you ALPA advocates expect to get another job somewhere else when you've been fired from SkyWest? Because I can tell you that for some of you on the OC, that's just what is going to happen.

Good Luck-

CFIT,

Do you want to reconsider your post? First of all, the people on the OC are the only ones who have any protection from being fired at Skywest. The company can not fire you for your organizing efforts. They could try, but that's ground for wrongfull termination. Secondly, what is this phobia about the company not being able to change the policy manual until a contract is settled? I see that as a good thing. In the last few years have you seen the manual changed for the better? I haven't. Every single change has taken away some benefit, or reduced our QOL.

I'm not at all in love with ALPA at the regionals, but I had to reply to your post.

 

[CFIT]

SSDD,
I would be very worried if I was someone on the OC, everybody makes mistakes and management can look at things differently depending on their feelings about your conduct.

The policy manual is written very open to interpretation, and thus will be taken to the companies benefit.

I honestly fear what this place will be like if ALPA gets voted in and the 3-4 years it takes to get a contract. I have been told by someone in upper management that they can easily stretch out contract negotiations for 4 years, during which the company would greatly benefit.

 

[JoeMerchant]

It would be easy for management to drag out negotiations for over 4 years. Here at ASA, we have been negotiating for almost 5 years, and that isn't for a new contract. Starting from scratch could easily take longer. In addition, the first contracts at regionals don't look very good. He!!, sometimes the second and third don't look as good as you guys currently have it.....

 

[SSDD]

I don't know if you were here during the last union drive, or was it the one before? But anyways AC was on the OC and the company fired him for some BS excuse over security screening in BTM. It took a while, but he got a pretty good $$$ settlement.

Just food for thought.

 

[SkyNation]

and then after 5 or so years when we get that first POS contract, Unionistas will say 'hey, don't complain. these things take time, this is just our first contract. We'll do much better on the next one.'

then, after another number of years................

wash, rinse, repeat

but hey, at least we'd be in the club, right?

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Your first contract would be the rules and wages you CURRENTLY work under, this is as per the RLA. The only way you would end up with less is if your NC wasn't doing its job. If they are doing their job, they will use the contracts at carriers like XJet and AWAC, as well as your own manual, to base a your new CONTRACT on. Also, you would have a vote on any new TA before it becomes effective.

Yes, after a few years of negotiation you might have to do info picketing or possibly strike, but a strike would not be in the companies' best interest. None of the arguements against ALPA that I see posted here on this subject are based in any fact whatsoever.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[skyhogg]

These guys are simply outrageous. This letter certainly sets the tone that if ALPA comes in it will automatically turn into a hostile work environment. News flash OC members you don't speak for us yet so until then please stop pretending to speak on behalf of all SkyWest pilots. If we go union you also give the company less flexibility, spend 2% of your check every year, hostile pilot/management negotiations, no guarantee of QOL/Wage increases at all.

You are an unbelievable hypocrite!!

 

[CFIT]

Your first contract would be the rules and wages you CURRENTLY work under, this is as per the RLA. The only way you would end up with less is if your NC wasn't doing its job. If they are doing their job, they will use the contracts at carriers like XJet and AWAC, as well as your own manual, to base a your new CONTRACT on. Also, you would have a vote on any new TA before it becomes effective.

Yes, after a few years of negotiation you might have to do info picketing or possibly strike, but a strike would not be in the companies' best interest. None of the arguements against ALPA that I see posted here on this subject are based in any fact whatsoever.

Peace.

Rekks

Neither are any of the arguements for ALPA either.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Quote from CFIT-I honestly fear what this place will be like if ALPA gets voted in and the 3-4 years it takes to get a contract.

How long did it take for us to get our last one? (which btw, had 0 QOL issues in it)

Quote-The policy manual is written very open to interpretation, and thus will be taken to the companies benefit.

As any company does anyway. Mesa's J.O. is proof of this. However if our current policy manual IS a contract as seen in the context of the RLA, would'nt said policy manual be subject to grievance?

quote-I have been told by someone in upper management that they can easily stretch out contract negotiations for 4 years, during which the company would greatly benefit.

I probably wouldn't dispute you there. However as I've said before- I don't think JA's a bad guy. Alot can change in this industry in 4 yrs. If a more "labor friendly" govt. comes to power, all bets are off. Besides would the Co. really fire the first hostile shot? A well educated and professional MEC is what keeps it on good terms.

I don't think anyone supporting this drive wants to make SKW any less competitive than it is now. Together we could find ways to improve some of our QOL, pay, and other issues.

 

[XPOO]

Look, if its not broke, don't fix it. Stop trying to stick your square peg in the round hole. If ALPA made sense at SkyWest it would be here already. Take your numerous defeats and walk off the field a man and not a sore loser. ALPA is not David, they are not Rocky, they aren't even Rudy. ALPA can't tackle JO, so what makes anyone think they can tackle JA? All this talk about how SkyWest's sky is going to fall and ALPA can save us is hysterical. Carry on.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Look, y'all either vote the union in or don't. But stop rehashing nthe same arguments about it over and over! You're not going to change each other's minds!

All of the information is out there. Just make up your mind, vote your conscience, and stop telling each other how to vote!

 

[XPOO]

Look, y'all either vote the union in or don't. But stop rehashing nthe same arguments about it over and over! You're not going to change each other's minds!

All of the information is out there. Just make up your mind, vote your conscience, and stop telling each other how to vote!

You're a tad annoying, but I like the way you think! LOL!

 

[SkyNation]

Look, y'all either vote the union in or don't. But stop rehashing nthe same arguments about it over and over! You're not going to change each other's minds!

All of the information is out there. Just make up your mind, vote your conscience, and stop telling each other how to vote!

hear! hear!

the sooner we move beyond this silliness, the better! they only have 55% of cards in, which includes plenty of people who just sent it in to 'just see what happens.' the actual number that would actually vote for ALPA in an election (if they ever get around to it) will be less, or MUCH less, than that percentage.

let's have the vote now and get on with life.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The SkyWest pilots have not seen the local benefits of ALPA and just because you are ALPA doesn't mean it is a hostile work environment. JetExpress seems to have a good relationship with management and they are working together to do some interesting things. It seems FedEx guys are pretty happy and even the most militant arm of ALPA, Delta pilots, are happy(ier) these days.

In the history of our profession there have always been pilots like Hello Newman. The Air Mail pilots used to suffer a mortality rate which once reached 80%. When 10 other more experienced pilots determined a flight was too risky - there was a Hello Newman willing to launch. Today there is always a Hello Newman who is eager to run over and try to undercut a pilot who has negotiated a raise, or better working conditions. Hello Newman is simply out for himself.

To want to belong to ALPA is to want something more for your profession. To want to work with other professionals to raise the standards in your industry.

Today we face a crisis in the United States. US airlines are understaffed and working conditions at airlines in China, India and the Arabian desert are better jobs than flying in the nation that invented powered flight. This is a crisis brought about by alter ego replacement flying which now makes up as much as 49% of some major carrier's block hours. The only way to face this problem and make for a more stable future is to come together in such a way that a pilot's concessionary pay is not the factor which decides which airlines prosper and which airlines fail.

We can not afford to leave part of this profession behind. With 49% of the mainline flying having been put out to bid there are fewer mainline jobs for us to "escape" to. With no brand, our leased airplanes can be transferred as fast as new, cheap, replacement labor can be trained.

ALPA is the only effective way to coordinate a response amongst pilot groups.

Is ALPA perfect, no. But is there a better solution to the Hello Newman factor? The way I see it, ALPA is the only way to work together to raise our profession.

With Globalization/Liberization of the airline industry, those who control this industry (and that is NOT pilots) want to simply lower the standards of US pilots to the rest of the world.

The US Air Line Industry is the envy of the world, except the cost. It can go two ways... The US industry can be brought down to the rest of the world or the world can be brought up....

ALPA has an INTERNATIONAL presence........

Are you going to help ALPA help the Air Line Pilots?

Specifically for the Skywest, Colgan, AirTran, jB etc.. pilots... simply put you are not engaged on the international scene. Yet the international scene is where your next 10-20 years will be defined.