Fact or fiction, Delta hiring ASA F/O's?

[Sinca3]

With the sick policy at DAL. You sign a release for your former employer to release that info. It is a big deal... It is one of six criteria that they grade you on.

Is this true? I haven´t had heard this from any of my friends that have been hired so far. I was thinking the only thing a previous employer could say was if they would rehire you or not....or something to that effect.
I have heard that an interviewee was denied employement b/c of his occurences at ASA. I would think there are plenty of pilots at ALL airlines that call in sick, only ASA has an occurence policy that bites you in the ass if you try and go elsewhere. Which seems odd b/c the word is ASA management is telling reccurent classes that they don´t want anyone here with more than 6 yrs senority. Kindof a "catch 22" on there part it seems......but then again we are talking about ASA and our great leaders!

 

[FUZZO]

If there are any negative items in your file at ASA they will be released to whoever you interview with. In the case of sick calls, you don't have anything to worry about if everything is legitimate. Delta seems to be looking for guys who abuse the ability to call in sick. There are guys who have been hired on here who have had lots of sick calls, but they filed for FMLA when it occured or included doctor's notes when they came for the interview. Remember, ASA is right across the street from Delta, the facts will be checked. Good luck.

 

[John Pennekamp]

If there are any negative items in your file at ASA they will be released to whoever you interview with. In the case of sick calls, you don't have anything to worry about if everything is legitimate. Delta seems to be looking for guys who abuse the ability to call in sick. There are guys who have been hired on here who have had lots of sick calls, but they filed for FMLA when it occured or included doctor's notes when they came for the interview. Remember, ASA is right across the street from Delta, the facts will be checked. Good luck.

That's not entirely true.

The "occurance file" is kept in the chief pilot's secretary's office and is not part of your "personnel file" which is at the GO. This is the file that is sent, not the CP file. The PRIA stipulates that certain records, such as training, drug testing, and discipline record must be released. If too many occurances results in discipline (ie a suspension) then it's sent to the GO. Otherwise, ASA does not pass these records on.

Furthermore, just because ASA is "across the street", it doesn't relieve ASA's liability should you be turned down for a job because they provided information not required by the PRIA. Pilots have every right to sue is this occured, and would probably own ASA.

A possible way around it is if Delta requires applicants to sign a waiver compelling ASA to provide the records, which is occurring. This could be construed as a contract signed under duress. Someone who isn't hired and told it's due to a poor attendance record provided by ASA should challenge this in court.

 

[Tomct]

That's not entirely true.

The "occurance file" is kept in the chief pilot's secretary's office and is not part of your "personnel file" which is at the GO. This is the file that is sent, not the CP file. The PRIA stipulates that certain records, such as training, drug testing, and discipline record must be released. If too many occurances results in discipline (ie a suspension) then it's sent to the GO. Otherwise, ASA does not pass these records on.

Furthermore, just because ASA is "across the street", it doesn't relieve ASA's liability should you be turned down for a job because they provided information not required by the PRIA. Pilots have every right to sue is this occured, and would probably own ASA.

A possible way around it is if Delta requires applicants to sign a waiver compelling ASA to provide the records, which is occurring. This could be construed as a contract signed under duress. Someone who isn't hired and told it's due to a poor attendance record provided by ASA should challenge this in court.

Yeah, good luck on Delta "...telling you that you did not make it due to your attendance..." They have attorneys as well!

 

[CFI2766]

So not one male w/o pic time has been hired/interviewed?... Anyone know of one?....

Even if the above statement is true, it is irrelevant. I suspect it would be an extremely difficult discrimination case to win. Probably more importantly, if you really want to work for Delta, being the guy to openly question why your lack of estrogen placed you in a different category of applicants that happened to require significantly more experience and qualifications would not be a positive influence in the hiring process.

As a white, educated male, you are now the most discriminated against demographic group in the country.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I had to sign a waiver in the interview to release all attendance files. I'm not sure what Pinnacle sent. I had about 1 sick call a year from my time at Pinnacle- all of which I brough excuses for.

 

[Cardenal]

Even if the above statement is true, it is irrelevant. I suspect it would be an extremely difficult discrimination case to win. Probably more importantly, if you really want to work for Delta, being the guy to openly question why your lack of estrogen placed you in a different category of applicants that happened to require significantly more experience and qualifications would not be a positive influence in the hiring process.

As a white, educated male, you are now the most discriminated against demographic group in the country.

"As a white, educated male, you are now the most discriminated against demographic group in the country."

Good grief man....you sound just like those college kids on the RV in "Borat".

 

[FUZZO]

That's not entirely true.

The "occurance file" is kept in the chief pilot's secretary's office and is not part of your "personnel file" which is at the GO. This is the file that is sent, not the CP file. The PRIA stipulates that certain records, such as training, drug testing, and discipline record must be released. If too many occurances results in discipline (ie a suspension) then it's sent to the GO. Otherwise, ASA does not pass these records on.

Furthermore, just because ASA is "across the street", it doesn't relieve ASA's liability should you be turned down for a job because they provided information not required by the PRIA. Pilots have every right to sue is this occured, and would probably own ASA.

A possible way around it is if Delta requires applicants to sign a waiver compelling ASA to provide the records, which is occurring. This could be construed as a contract signed under duress. Someone who isn't hired and told it's due to a poor attendance record provided by ASA should challenge this in court.

john,

that is why they do the testing--its a legal way out.

 

[CFI2766]

"As a white, educated male, you are now the most discriminated against demographic group in the country."

Good grief man....you sound just like those college kids on the RV in "Borat".

Haven't seen the movie. (In fact, haven't been able to do a whole lot of anything recreational lately. Not a lot of slack for a recreational budget as a first year FO. [Yup, I knew this going in.])

Do not misunderstand me: I'm not making excuses for my place in the aviation career or bemoaning this aforementioned incontrovertible fact. It simply is.

There are a lot of organizations and movements out there to 'right' some wrong of the past, perceived or not. It's my opinion that you can not retroactively correct an injustice without creating another one. Devils advocate time: If I'm someday responsible for making hiring decisions for an organization, how will the preferential treatment given over me to (women, minorities, possessors of non-standard sexual orientation, etc.) influence my hiring practices? [If I am indeed ever placed in that position, I personally would select applicants that are the best for the job, based solely on merit.]

 

[Cardenal]

Haven't seen the movie. (In fact, haven't been able to do a whole lot of anything recreational lately. Not a lot of slack for a recreational budget as a first year FO. [Yup, I knew this going in.])

Do not misunderstand me: I'm not making excuses for my place in the aviation career or bemoaning this aforementioned incontrovertible fact. It simply is.

There are a lot of organizations and movements out there to 'right' some wrong of the past, perceived or not. It's my opinion that you can not retroactively correct an injustice without creating another one. Devils advocate time: If I'm someday responsible for making hiring decisions for an organization, how will the preferential treatment given over me to (women, minorities, possessors of non-standard sexual orientation, etc.) influence my hiring practices? [If I am indeed ever placed in that position, I personally would select applicants that are the best for the job, based solely on merit.]

very thoughtful post. thank you.

the movie, by the way, is brilliant...check it out when you get a chance. brilliant but retarded. all at once. i know it sounds weird but it is funny.

 

[John Pennekamp]

john,

that is why they do the testing--its a legal way out.

Testing?

 

[FUZZO]

they do a cognitive test, a technical test, a medical exam, a psych eval, an interview.

 

[John Pennekamp]

they do a cognitive test, a technical test, a medical exam, a psych eval, an interview.

Got it. So they say you failed the test when it's actually your attendance record. Yes, no jury would ever see through that.

 

[John Pennekamp]

And by the way, I can't resist. "FUZZO"? How long have you been at ASA? If you've been here a while, you'd know that there's only 1 Fuzzo. And I doubt you're him.

 

[FUZZO]

Regardless there John, if you get a letter due to your absences sent over to the GO it is going to be found out in your background. So you mention it in your interview--you better have a good reason for it at least.

If you don't put yourself in that situation you shouldn't have a problem. The best thing to do is not look for the "loophole" but how do you make yourself stand out from the next guy or girl. none of the airlines hiring right now owe you a job regardless of who you know. the knowing part gets you there, you have to do the rest.

 

[FUZZO]

John,

I am sure you and I both have a few EMB caps that say "Fuzzo was here". i couldn't resist the name you know. i am happy that i am not the real Fuzzo. I do agree with you that you can't lose the job simply on your sick calls alone, that would be wrong, but it is just another mark against you.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Regardless there John, if you get a letter due to your absences sent over to the GO it is going to be found out in your background. So you mention it in your interview--you better have a good reason for it at least.

A good reason for calling in sick? How about FAR 91.65?!!

If you don't put yourself in that situation you shouldn't have a problem. The best thing to do is not look for the "loophole" but how do you make yourself stand out from the next guy or girl. none of the airlines hiring right now owe you a job regardless of who you know. the knowing part gets you there, you have to do the rest.

Why would you want to leave ASA and go work for a company that treats you just as poorly? When you're sick, you're sick. End of story.

No airline should be selecting or eliminating candidates on the basis of whether they call in sick or not. If I were an interviewer, I'd want the pilot who calls in sick, not the one who comes to work sick, possibly violating the FARs, and possibly making other employees sick, thus lowering prductivity. Everybody gets sick. You either call in, or you go to work.

Your sick record only proves whether you follow the rules (and stay home), or will break any rule to help the company out. And Delta's choosing employees who do the latter. Think about that.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

JP, look at it like this, no airline will base its hiring decision on one criteria alone. Look at this from a business pt of view. If you look at an applicants work history and see that he/she always uses up all of the alloted sick time and then some. An employer will come to one of two conclusions. Either this person abuses sick leave or has serious medical issues. Either way that applicant would not be a good candidate.

 

[FUZZO]

john,

i wouldn't go out that far and say that the people they are hiring would break rules out on line. your making a big assumption about people who quite frankly know you and fly with you or have flown with you. that being said do you break or bend the rules out on line? sure you do. no matter how small or trite you may see it we all have done something that benefits ourselves or someone else out on the line.

i agree call in sick if you are sick. however, this in regards to interviewing at another company, if you call in sick 5 times at ASA in one year, if you don't take the initiative to get some of those covered under FMLA or get your self a doctor's note, it MAY bite you in the butt down the road. ASA is tough on all of us in regards to the sick call. Most guys that are new i fly with are down right petrified to do so. they should have called in sick.

It is your right to call in sick if you are sick regardless of company policy or FARs. However, the company has a right to ensure it's productivity and make sure that the sick policy is not abused. the policy is there to make you accountable. it would not need to be there if people understood what accountablity meant. i am not saying you are someone who needs to understand that, but we do have those who need to be held accountable.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The truly ironic thing is that the Delta pilots enjoy one of the most liberal sick policies in the industry. So I still fail to see why Delta is making such a big deal of it.

So what if you call in sick 5 times a year and FMLA it? Ever heard of chronic conditions, like sinus or allergies? That does not make someone a bad employee. It should not be a criteria to select or deselect pilots.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

It may not be the best hiring criteria, but if you have 2 applicants in front of you both w/ excellent qualifications but one has chronic sick leave, which would you hire?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fuzzzo has three zzz's. He used to make a point of it and even had it on his name tag. What a nut he was - funny though. B J is a lousy replacement for the airline's #1 (insert sarcastic, obscene, or term of endearment).

 

[wickedpilot]

I'm applying to ASA. I just tried to call the number on the jobs page of their website to try and find a name etc. of who I could address a cover letter to. No luck, the number's voicemail box was full and I couldn't get through. Could someone PM me a name of who is in charge of hiring right now? Thanks.

I'm suprised ppl still want to apply here. Hopefully you've done your research and for whatever reason, there are no options for you other than ASA.

As far as applying goes, don't waste your time with a cover letter. The hiring dept. is very desperate for F.O.'s they have reduce the hiring minimums about 3 times in the past several months. Submitting a resume means you have a pulse and a pilots license, they'll hire you based on that criteria.

 

[rumrnr78]

I loved bouncing back and forth between oral and written warning (as the occurences rolled off and back on!).

 

[737 Pylt]

Regardless there John, if you get a letter due to your absences sent over to the GO it is going to be found out in your background. So you mention it in your interview--you better have a good reason for it at least.

If you don't put yourself in that situation you shouldn't have a problem. The best thing to do is not look for the "loophole" but how do you make yourself stand out from the next guy or girl. none of the airlines hiring right now owe you a job regardless of who you know. the knowing part gets you there, you have to do the rest.

Fuzzo:
Well put! If someone gets you an interview they've done their part, now show that you can sell yourself the job!

737

 

[mcjohn]

Thanks for the PMs. Got it. My 31 hours of multi didn't cut it but I was at least logged into the computer by DR thanks to a recommendation. I read here often about ASA and know plenty about what to expect. I'm looking to get some great training and to work with some great people and to be conviently located for commutes etc. Kind of want to bat for the home team so to say. I grew up in GA (AGS) and now live in NC (AVL) equal distant from ATL, CLT, TYS, and GSP. PSA is the other interest but my low multi time is holding me back there as well even with an internal recommendation. Again, thanks for the contact name.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Fuzzzo has three zzz's. He used to make a point of it and even had it on his name tag. What a nut he was - funny though. B J is a lousy replacement for the airline's #1 (insert sarcastic, obscene, or term of endearment).

BJ? Did you mean JB? PM me with your nomination. I'm curious to hear who the Fuzzzo replacement is.

 

[John Pennekamp]

It may not be the best hiring criteria, but if you have 2 applicants in front of you both w/ excellent qualifications but one has chronic sick leave, which would you hire?

The one who interviews better and wants the job most. Have you ever done interviewing? There's always a difference between applicants to select on.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Actually yes, and the question that I pose puts both applicants on a level playing field w/ the exception of attendance. Employers look for patterns of abuse/illness not just a few months worth. Pt. being that while I agree that using sick leave may not be the best criteria for employment, fact being it is and will be for a very long time.

 

[FDJ2]

The truly ironic thing is that the Delta pilots enjoy one of the most liberal sick policies in the industry. So I still fail to see why Delta is making such a big deal of it.

Because it's a good sick leave policy it can easily be abused. Something the company is very weary of.