PNCL MEC Chairman resigns..

[Casper]

DoinTime,
I am not about to argue about this one but maybe if you look a little closer you will see that we still have no FN CONTRACT signed, crapy work rules, negative enviroment and the list goes on are you starting to see the picture? I am not saying that he has control over any of it however when you take a position that you can try and make a difference you can either fight for the people that you represent or you can conform to a managment kiss ass.
In the end you make the choice.

 

[WildBlue]

DoinTime,
I am not about to argue about this one but maybe if you look a little closer you will see that we still have no FN CONTRACT signed, crapy work rules, negative enviroment and the list goes on are you starting to see the picture? I am not saying that he has control over any of it however when you take a position that you can try and make a difference you can either fight for the people that you represent or you can conform to a managment kiss ass.
In the end you make the choice.

Wow, Casper. You really need to take a good, long look at what you just wrote. Negative environment? No FN contract signed? Then you go on to say that the he doesn't have any control over any of that. Then, your a management kss ass because he couldn't get any of that to change? What an inflated idea of what the MEC Chairman is capable of accomplishing. I guess all the MEC Chairmen at Mesa, ASA, Comair, Northwest, Delta and every other carrier out there is also a management kiss ass because they have all the same problems.

You sound like someone who is pissed off at life, pissed off with your career and generally pissed off, so you need to find someone to blame. The guy put in over 8 years of service, was elected multiple times and you blame him for the state of the world. Have a couple of pops and try to re-orient yourself. Or better yet, get off your duff, run for office and make the changes yourself. But that wouldn't be as much fun as running another guy down.

 

[Speedtape]

DoinTime,
I am not about to argue about this one but maybe if you look a little closer you will see that we still have no FN CONTRACT signed, crapy work rules, negative enviroment and the list goes on are you starting to see the picture? I am not saying that he has control over any of it however when you take a position that you can try and make a difference you can either fight for the people that you represent or you can conform to a managment kiss ass.
In the end you make the choice.[/quote

He is only one man. The only power he has, is the power given to him by your pilot group. Power is dependent upon the degree of UNITY that exists in your pilot group. If your pilot group has UNITY and your pilot group empowers him to be the one voice of your pilot group, then it is more likely that the goals of your pilot group can be achieved. That does not mean that achievement of those goals will be easy. It means that with UNITY, it will be more likely.

The MEC Chairman is not a King or Dictator. Ideally, he is the single voice of your Unified pilot group. Conversely, if your pilot group is divided or not Unified, then your MEC Chairman has little power. He will be viewed as a token leader by your Management and your pilots.

You will only have the signed contract that you want when your pilot group has UNITY. Work rules will only improve when your pilot group has UNITY. The environment will improve when you have accomplished both of the above, through Unity. Your MEC Chair only has control of the above things when your pilot group has Unity and you empower him to be the singular voice of that pilot group. His leverage is totally dependent upon the degree of Unity within your pilot group.

Wake took the position. He has worked hard for your pilot group. He is not a kiss ass. He doesn't have to work another day in his life! Wake is one man. He is a capable leader given the power of a Unified pilot group. Wake has not failed.

Do you need to look in the mirror?

 

[DoinTime]

DoinTime,
I am not about to argue about this one but maybe if you look a little closer you will see that we still have no FN CONTRACT signed, crapy work rules, negative enviroment and the list goes on are you starting to see the picture? I am not saying that he has control over any of it however when you take a position that you can try and make a difference you can either fight for the people that you represent or you can conform to a managment kiss ass.
In the end you make the choice.

Its doubtful that people like you will ever recognize the work that your Union volunteers will ever do. You don't understand the process, you are not willing to learn, and you blame everyone else for this career not being to your expectations.

Guess what???? You're a typical pilot. Thats why we continue to lose against ruthless management groups. Guys like you make it all to easy.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Its doubtful that people like you will ever recognize the work that your Union volunteers will ever do. You don't understand the process, you are not willing to learn, and you blame everyone else for this career not being to your expectations.

Guess what???? You're a typical pilot. Thats why we continue to lose against ruthless management groups. Guys like you make it all to easy.

and again

Its doubtful that people like you will ever recognize the work that your Union volunteers will ever do. You don't understand the process, you are not willing to learn, and you blame everyone else for this career not being to your expectations.

Guess what???? You're a typical pilot. Thats why we continue to lose against ruthless management groups. Guys like you make it all to easy.

and again

Its doubtful that people like you will ever recognize the work that your Union volunteers will ever do. You don't understand the process, you are not willing to learn, and you blame everyone else for this career not being to your expectations.

Guess what???? You're a typical pilot. Thats why we continue to lose against ruthless management groups. Guys like you make it all to easy.

and again

Its doubtful that people like you will ever recognize the work that your Union volunteers will ever do. You don't understand the process, you are not willing to learn, and you blame everyone else for this career not being to your expectations.

Guess what???? You're a typical pilot. Thats why we continue to lose against ruthless management groups. Guys like you make it all to easy.

and again

Its doubtful that people like you will ever recognize the work that your Union volunteers will ever do. You don't understand the process, you are not willing to learn, and you blame everyone else for this career not being to your expectations.

Guess what???? You're a typical pilot. Thats why we continue to lose against ruthless management groups. Guys like you make it all to easy.

and again

Its doubtful that people like you will ever recognize the work that your Union volunteers will ever do. You don't understand the process, you are not willing to learn, and you blame everyone else for this career not being to your expectations.

Guess what???? You're a typical pilot. Thats why we continue to lose against ruthless management groups. Guys like you make it all to easy.

and again

Its doubtful that people like you will ever recognize the work that your Union volunteers will ever do. You don't understand the process, you are not willing to learn, and you blame everyone else for this career not being to your expectations.

Guess what???? You're a typical pilot. Thats why we continue to lose against ruthless management groups. Guys like you make it all to easy.

 

[Ridgeback]

I personally am out of patience. Many of our pilots agree. Someone needs to take action.

Just not you right?

I elect you to be the first to refuse to fly because you are "out of patience."

 

[Occam's Razor]

No job is too difficult for somebody who doesn't have to do it themself.

 

[swordfish]

wake is going to jetblue with his bubby Dario from transsates

 

[TurboAWD]

DoinTime,
I am not about to argue about this one but maybe if you look a little closer you will see that we still have no FN CONTRACT signed, crapy work rules, negative enviroment and the list goes on are you starting to see the picture? I am not saying that he has control over any of it however when you take a position that you can try and make a difference you can either fight for the people that you represent or you can conform to a managment kiss ass.
In the end you make the choice.

Oh, I see. Well, I am sure that you attended all of the picketing events last year, are a P2P rep, on at least one commitee, and give money to ALPA-PAC so that hopefully we can get some input in Washington/the NMB...

No?
Then STFU.

Turbo

 

[Freight Dog]

You guys want a contract? NMB won't release you? Summer of Love baby!

Junior-manned on your day off at home? Oh no... you already cracked that beer at 7am.

Junior-manned in the jetway? Oh no... fatigue is a bitch and not exactly safe or legal!!

On-time performance? Well, sure... but comes secondary to making sure that the checklists are all done and verifying that the numbers on the manifest are indeed correct.

Fuel savings? What fuel savings? Maximum safety comes first along with what it says in the training manual! Fully configured on a nice stabilized 12-mile final approach.

Overtime? Sorry, but bass fishing season is coming into full swing and some contests have a purse that's worth quite a bit of cash. Gotta practice! If they say you're being junior-manned, fishing and drinking beer is called enjoying your life to the max - unfortunately you're not legal to fly.

NMB won't release you. The Company is laughing their asses off at you and your offer. This is like communicating with someone who only understands getting kicked in the balls. Maybe it's time to kick'em in the balls.

 

[Casper]

Wildblue,
Wow.. You seem to be the one who is pissed off here.
You have no idea what I do outside of flying here but to give you a little taste I have been involved with ALPA before I started flying for the airlines in a few different capacities of which I am not at liberty to say but I can asure you I have worked long and hard trying to make changes throught out a system that needs some vast improvement not just with PCL but all carriers and the industry as a whole. It sounds like you are very fond of Mr.Gordon and I am not saying that should not be, on personal level he seems to be a nice guy but as an MEC Chairman to me this is questionable. I have approached him at various occasions to discuss specific issues of importance that not only myself but my peers thought needed to be addressed only to be put aside for another convienient time and then in the end never revisiting them at all. Listen without going into a whole lot of detail the bottom line is when you are elected to a position that you must strive to carry out the role in the best interest for all that are involved and be objective and open to ideas that might just benefit everyone without passion or predjudice. If you can't and you thoughts are about how you can benefit from the process.
Simply put don't take the job.
And by the way I have attended every picketing event we have had since I have been here.
Have you ?

 

[DoinTime]

I'd like to see the man who can carry the individual problems of 1200+ pilots on their back alone. The scope of the MEC Chairman's job is not to investigate misdoings or address concerns of individuals. For a chairman to bog himself down with such (to put it bluntly) trivial pursuits would be foolish.

Many of our pilots brought personal disciplinary issues (or the like) to WG and got unintentionally snubbed. Now they think he is a bad Chairman. In reality bringing your personal issues to the chairman of your MEC at an airline this size is like telling George Bush you think your property taxes are to high.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You guys want a contract? NMB won't release you? Summer of Love baby!

Junior-manned on your day off at home? Oh no... you already cracked that beer at 7am.

Junior-manned in the jetway? Oh no... fatigue is a bitch and not exactly safe or legal!!

On-time performance? Well, sure... but comes secondary to making sure that the checklists are all done and verifying that the numbers on the manifest are indeed correct.

Fuel savings? What fuel savings? Maximum safety comes first along with what it says in the training manual! Fully configured on a nice stabilized 12-mile final approach.

Overtime? Sorry, but bass fishing season is coming into full swing and some contests have a purse that's worth quite a bit of cash. Gotta practice! If they say you're being junior-manned, fishing and drinking beer is called enjoying your life to the max - unfortunately you're not legal to fly.

NMB won't release you. The Company is laughing their asses off at you and your offer. This is like communicating with someone who only understands getting kicked in the balls. Maybe it's time to kick'em in the balls.

Easier said than done.. some are trying to keep their PRIA and employment record clean so they can move on...

 

[Casper]

Doin Time,
Once again I am not saying that he has done anything wrong but I am Just curious.
What has he done period ?

 

[DoinTime]

Doin Time,
Once again I am not saying that he has done anything wrong but I am Just curious.
What has he done period ?

I'll counter that question with a question. What didn't he do?

 

[Freight Dog]

Easier said than done.. some are trying to keep their PRIA and employment record clean so they can move on...

Wow Rez... talk about a lack of spine. This has been the problem with ALPA that ultimately led to the demise of our profession. How do you expect to restore it? By being "pragmatic?" That's cute...

Until you kick them in the nuts, you can expect to be treated like sh*t. If you can realistically hurt the company where it matters to them, and show them that you will, that's when you'll have their attention. Until that happens, you'll continue to be a wet noodle not worth their attention.

If they fire you for telling them you're fatigued.... can you say LAWSUIT? Not to mention FAA penalties...

If they fire you or bust you for following regs to the letter i.e. brisk walk taxi, flying the sim-like profiles (configuring early), taking your time in doing the checklists correctly, what exactly can they hit you up on on your PRIA/employment record?

You know what they say... no guts, no glory.

 

[ifly34]

Easier said than done.. some are trying to keep their PRIA and employment record clean so they can move on...

So one of the big selling points for ALPA is they can help you if you have been wrongfully terminated. But, they can't do a thing if your record is wrongfully smudged? Sounds like a contradiction to me!

 

[redflyer65]

I agree with Doin Time. Wake did so many things behind the scenes and actually prevented this management group from making this place even worst.The biggest victory I remember is when the company wanted us to fly the 44 seaters at a lower rate. Wake waited until the first one was sitting in the hanger then said "No thanks". That was the shortest conversation in avaition history! Slam dunk for the union.And the same is true when Phil wanted to slash our payscale after 9/11. He says everyone else is cutting rates or is in bankruptcy. Wake says "Fine, open your books and we'll talk". The second shortest conversation. Phil turned around and never came back. Gives you the idea that Phil really doesn't want the pilot group to know how well things are going.Wake's worst problem? Communication in general with the pilot group. I still say thanks for the service Wake. He's done more here than a lot of people that just like to blow wind.

 

[John Pennekamp]

He is only one man. The only power he has, is the power given to him by your pilot group. Power is dependent upon the degree of UNITY that exists in your pilot group. If your pilot group has UNITY and your pilot group empowers him to be the one voice of your pilot group, then it is more likely that the goals of your pilot group can be achieved. That does not mean that achievement of those goals will be easy. It means that with UNITY, it will be more likely.

The MEC Chairman is not a King or Dictator. Ideally, he is the single voice of your Unified pilot group. Conversely, if your pilot group is divided or not Unified, then your MEC Chairman has little power. He will be viewed as a token leader by your Management and your pilots.

You will only have the signed contract that you want when your pilot group has UNITY. Work rules will only improve when your pilot group has UNITY. The environment will improve when you have accomplished both of the above, through Unity. Your MEC Chair only has control of the above things when your pilot group has Unity and you empower him to be the singular voice of that pilot group. His leverage is totally dependent upon the degree of Unity within your pilot group.

Wake took the position. He has worked hard for your pilot group. He is not a kiss ass. He doesn't have to work another day in his life! Wake is one man. He is a capable leader given the power of a Unified pilot group. Wake has not failed.

Do you need to look in the mirror?

And that, in a nutshell, is why we're 4.5 years with no contract at ASA. Chest thumpers supporting ALPA on message boards, but no real unity, no real power. Too many pilots that talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Just not you right?

I elect you to be the first to refuse to fly because you are "out of patience."

That was a totally asinine statement. Clearly, you're the only one on here who doesn't know who I am.

 

[WildBlue]

I agree with Doin Time and Redflyer: A lot of what you can measure an MEC Chairman on are the things that did NOT happen. Let's go through the list, some are repeats:

Preferential bidding is STILL not on our property. Company has been trying for years and the union has done very well in dodging this turkey.

44 seat LOA. Huge victory.

NW goes into bankruptcy and the MEC stares down a very real threat. Does anyone think that happened because the status reps were so smart.

Contract down to scope, pay and benefits. Looks like something the NMB can deal with.

Comp day LOA and Extension LOA that dramatically improved our QOL.

That is just some of the items. True, he could have communicated better, but as far that goes he probably could have used some help.

All in all, he kept the company at bay for a long time. Let's see how the new batch of super-stars does. If they do half as well, we will be in pretty good shape. Oh, by the way, I do like the guy. I think he worked very, very hard for us and deserves thanks for doing it as long as he has.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Easier said than done.. some are trying to keep their PRIA and employment record clean so they can move on...

Rez,

This is exactly why nothing will change. We have created our own problem. We have created a "master/apprentice" system that is dependent on pilots moving on. To move on, you have to keep your nose clean.

In 1998, the ASA group achieved what it did because of a "work to rule campaign". The percentage of "lifers" was higher, and they didn't care, therefor they did what they needed to do. The Democratic NMB, with a former AFA MEC Chairwoman, had "parked" us (isn't just those "evil" Republicans)....

Now that ALPA and APA have allowed half of the legacy flying to become "stepping stone" jobs, you cheerleaders have your work cut out for you....

 

[John Pennekamp]

Rez,

This is exactly why nothing will change. We have created our own problem. We have created a "master/apprentice" system that is dependent on pilots moving on. To move on, you have to keep your nose clean.

In 1998, the ASA group achieved what it did because of a "work to rule campaign". The percentage of "lifers" was higher, and they didn't care, therefor they did what they needed to do. The Democratic NMB, with a former AFA MEC Chairwoman, had "parked" us (isn't just those "evil" Republicans)....

Now that ALPA and APA have allowed half of the legacy flying to become "stepping stone" jobs, you cheerleaders have your work cut out for you....

That's true. Ever notice that official union communications always label us as "Regional" or "Small Jet" or "Express" pilots. You never see a mainline pilot refered to as a "Mainline" or "Legacy" pilot, you see them named by their company; a "Delta" pilot or a "US Airways" pilot.

They want to make sure we remember we're slaves on the plantation, kept alive by the scraps they throw us. And if we're real good and kiss up enough, and keep our noses clean, then MAYBE by their grace we can move up and become real pilots one day.

 

[timmay]

What about the time WG signed a side letter allowing the company to stop paying pilots per diem 24-7 during moving days??? As I recall we nothing out of that little agreement. Although it cost me a lot of money not being able to base hop.

 

[Smarta$$]

What about the time WG signed a side letter allowing the company to stop paying pilots per diem 24-7 during moving days??? As I recall we nothing out of that little agreement. Although it cost me a lot of money not being able to base hop.

Wa Wa Wa. You sport bidders are an abuse of the system and should be limited to twice a year anyway. Hopefully it will be limited in any new agreement. My biggest gripe is how it affects people that can't get back to there home base after they upgrade because of people sport bidding.

Bidding a new base EVERY month or two was not the intent of the agreement.

 

[timmay]

Wa Wa Wa. You sport bidders are an abuse of the system and should be limited to twice a year anyway. Hopefully it will be limited in any new agreement. My biggest gripe is how it affects people that can't get back to there home base after they upgrade because of people sport bidding.

Bidding a new base EVERY month or two was not the intent of the agreement.

Who cares what the intent was it worked for the pilots and management wanted it changed. Never give anything up for free because management sure doesn't.

 

[DoinTime]

What about the time WG signed a side letter allowing the company to stop paying pilots per diem 24-7 during moving days??? As I recall we nothing out of that little agreement. Although it cost me a lot of money not being able to base hop.

Received nothing out of that agreement? The entire section of that LOA about new hires was new. Its pretty sad that you are willing to throw every new pilot that comes through the door here at PCL under the bus so you can make an extra five days of per diem while you pretend to "move" on the 6-12 base transfers you do a year. That is just pathetic.

 

[WildBlue]

Received nothing out of that agreement? The entire section of that LOA about new hires was new. Its pretty sad that you are willing to throw every new pilot that comes through the door here at PCL under the bus so you can make an extra five days of per diem while you pretend to "move" on the 6-12 base transfers you do a year. That is just pathetic.

Hip, hip, hooray! DoinTime is right on target. That LOA cost PCL a tremendous amount of money. It gained for our new hires a benefit that did not exist at the cost of a couple of sport bidders. That is just the kind of deals that need to made. The greatest number of people were served by that one and the greatest amount of money was extracted from the company. Good job, MEC!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Wow Rez... talk about a lack of spine. This has been the problem with ALPA that ultimately led to the demise of our profession. How do you expect to restore it? By being "pragmatic?" That's cute...

No spine? BS... But the reality is I can push the issue and get fired only to get my job back... is that guranteed. Do I want to explian a 6 month laspe is flying at an interview.. You are a real gem.. full of mouth...

Until you kick them in the nuts, you can expect to be treated like sh*t. If you can realistically hurt the company where it matters to them, and show them that you will, that's when you'll have their attention. Until that happens, you'll continue to be a wet noodle not worth their attention.

Blah blah blah... you sound like a radical islamic cleric rally the idiots for the next suicide attack.....

If they fire you for telling them you're fatigued.... can you say LAWSUIT? Not to mention FAA penalties...

Ok.. ahhnold...

If they fire you or bust you for following regs to the letter i.e. brisk walk taxi, flying the sim-like profiles (configuring early), taking your time in doing the checklists correctly, what exactly can they hit you up on on your PRIA/employment record?

That is not the arguement... if you want to play super hero with the RLA go for it...

You know what they say... no guts, no glory.

You are making me horny stud muffin! I think I am going to watch Rambo I, II and III..

 

[Freight Dog]

Heh Rez... for an ALPA cheerleader, I think you really lack some historical perspective. You've been brainwashed by the post 9/11 ALPA which has no balls, and no clue how to protect the profession.

If being pragmatic doesn't work, what are your alternatives?

Option 1 (preferred by today's ALPA), suck it up and live to surrender again another day.

Option 2 (old school ways), kick'em in their proverbial nuts i.e. finances if asking nicely doesn't work. Realize that the company, investors and shareholders, banks have way more to lose than you and other employees. Obviously, you've made your choice...

Option 1 presents today's ALPA with lack of unity, and a bunch of spineless cowards who are afraid to stand their ground if it means pissing someone off.

Option 2 presents a result of strong leadership truly "takin' it back."

You made a choice. You reap what you sow.

As for your attempts to insult me, I expected more from you. I thought you were an educated class act capable of rational arguments. Guess I was wrong.