Teamsters vs ALPA

[JoeMerchant]

Yeah, two RJDC drones thinking alike. Didn't see that coming.

Kinda like die-hard ALPA chest thumpers.....

"ALPA has great legal and aeromedical"
"ALPA has great resources"
"If you give more money to ALPA PAC, these problems will be solved"
"If we had a Democrat in the White House, these problems will be solved"
"The ASA/CMR/DAL PID was a seniority grab"

Wash, rinse, repeat......

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yes - although I think the consequences of mainline scope changes were intentional, as is documented by the "bargaining credits" recieved for flying being performed by another work group.

We agree. But given the choice of Teamsters and ALPA, Teamsters was more blatant in their self interest.

I agree Fins, but the unfortunate reality is this has now become an industry that is controlled by "self interest". While Teamsters was more blatant about it, ALPA is more secretive in it's self interest. ALPA can't even admit that it has an obvious conflict of interest. The teamsters on the other hand admits that it avoids this type of conflict of interest.

 

[PCL_128]

So it's not so much ALPA, rather it is the local leadership and the membership. NetJets, Horizon, UPS and SWA are the "crown jewels" right now. Not a single one is ALPA.

Actually, the best contract industry-wide right now is the FedEx agreement. An ALPA contract, by the way, that passed by over 90%.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Actually, the best contract industry-wide right now is the FedEx agreement. An ALPA contract, by the way, that passed by over 90%.

Agreed, but not because they are ALPA. They did quite well before they joined ALPA. There is much more that goes into it than being ALPA or not.

FedEx is making large amounts of money, which helps when you go to negotiate for a piece of the pie. This is why I think a pro-business govt. is better than an anti-business govt. In fact, one could argue that FedEx has benefited greatly from free trade and globalization.

 

[PCL_128]

Agreed, but not because they are ALPA. They did quite well before they joined ALPA.

Then why did they come back, John? The pilots at FedEx derisively refer to the FPA as the "student council." The FPA was largely a joke.

 

[DrewBlows]

Agreed, but not because they are ALPA. They did quite well before they joined ALPA. There is much more that goes into it than being ALPA or not.

FedEx is making large amounts of money, which helps when you go to negotiate for a piece of the pie. This is why I think a pro-business govt. is better than an anti-business govt. In fact, one could argue that FedEx has benefited greatly from free trade and globalization.

Come on, you can't have it both ways. When Delta, USAirways, and United get screwed it's ALPA's fault (and has nothing to do with bankruptcy), but when FedEx gets a good contract ALPA has nothing to do with it? It's hard to take your opinions seriously when you are so blatantly inconsistent.

 

[DX Rick]

Kinda like die-hard ALPA chest thumpers.....

"ALPA has great legal and aeromedical"
"ALPA has great resources"
"If you give more money to ALPA PAC, these problems will be solved"
"If we had a Democrat in the White House, these problems will be solved"
"The ASA/CMR/DAL PID was a seniority grab"

Wash, rinse, repeat......

Our dues go towards new excuses as to why nothing is being done. Thats all I have ever heard from a Union guy, excuses. JC has a nice lavish seat. He gets to drop all his line flying, for "Union Duties". Then picks up day off flying for time and a half.
Yeah, it's in the contract that he can do it. But to do it for 9 years, don't you think thats abuse of the system? Of course not, you're a die hard ALPA guy. Of course you'll make up some excuse as to why it's OK to do what he is doing.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Our dues go towards new excuses as to why nothing is being done. Thats all I have ever heard from a Union guy, excuses. JC has a nice lavish seat. He gets to drop all his line flying, for "Union Duties". Then picks up day off flying for time and a half.
Yeah, it's in the contract that he can do it. But to do it for 9 years, don't you think thats abuse of the system? Of course not, you're a die hard ALPA guy. Of course you'll make up some excuse as to why it's OK to do what he is doing.

Not me.... I agree with you. There was a time when JC "got it", then he became a politician... much like most people who stay involved with ALPA...

There is a difference between a leader and a politician...

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Agreed, but not because they are ALPA. They did quite well before they joined ALPA. There is much more that goes into it than being ALPA or not.

FedEx is making large amounts of money, which helps when you go to negotiate for a piece of the pie. This is why I think a pro-business govt. is better than an anti-business govt. In fact, one could argue that FedEx has benefited greatly from free trade and globalization.

That's funny...SkyWest is, and has been making "large amounts of money" for a long time and yet SAPA was unable to "negotiate" more than a 0% raise for EMB pilots and a sad 1%(for a 101/2 year time period) for the rest of us!!
By your own argument, it seems we would have done better being ALPA??!!!!

 

[DX Rick]

Not me.... I agree with you. There was a time when JC "got it", then he became a politician... much like most people who stay involved with ALPA...

There is a difference between a leader and a politician...

There should be a time frame where our MEC has to be cycled though every 2-3 years. Do your time, get out. More guys would probably be active within the union. Knowing that years after year, some guy like Andy Hughes and JC is sitting in office, doing nothing but collect a fat check, make bad decisions for the group, and golf outings with management.

I have heard CP's get slammed for being "company" guys, but it seems like our MEC is closer with management, than the CP's are.

 

[PCL_128]

Our dues go towards new excuses as to why nothing is being done. Thats all I have ever heard from a Union guy, excuses. JC has a nice lavish seat. He gets to drop all his line flying, for "Union Duties". Then picks up day off flying for time and a half.
Yeah, it's in the contract that he can do it. But to do it for 9 years, don't you think thats abuse of the system? Of course not, you're a die hard ALPA guy. Of course you'll make up some excuse as to why it's OK to do what he is doing.

If that was the case, then I would agree that that's unethical. However, I don't think that's an accurate assessment of how JC does things. Perhaps you can provide some proof that JC is receiving a full-time buy while still flying trips at premium pay? I know JC, and that doesn't sound like him.

 

[DX Rick]

If that was the case, then I would agree that that's unethical. However, I don't think that's an accurate assessment of how JC does things. Perhaps you can provide some proof that JC is receiving a full-time buy while still flying trips at premium pay? I know JC, and that doesn't sound like him.

Good God man, you're a sorry sack. According to you, ALPA MEC members, or office holders can do no wrong.

You're f'ing blind.

While you're trying to protect fellow pilots jobs, just remind them it's scum like you who paid for your first job, putting another pilot out of a job.

It's been a while since someone has pointed out that you paid to work at GIA.

 

[PCL_128]

Good God man, you're a sorry sack. According to you, ALPA MEC members, or office holders can do no wrong.

I just posted that any ALPA rep that did what you described would be in the wrong. I just doubt that JC is doing that. Where's your proof? Are we all just supposed to believe the raving lunatic on flightinfo?

 

[DX Rick]

I just posted that any ALPA rep that did what you described would be in the wrong. I just doubt that JC is doing that. Where's your proof? Are we all just supposed to believe the raving lunatic on flightinfo?

I'm not going to post the mans schedule on FI.com. So my next idea is that you ask any other CMR pilot.

 

[DrewBlows]

I'm not going to post the mans schedule on FI.com. So my next idea is that you ask any other CMR pilot.

You've already slandered him. You have accused him of impropriety and used his real name on an anonymous web board, yet have offered precisely zero proof. I'll help you out.

JC has not flown even once in the past month and hasn't picked up any trips this month either. I don't have access to any other months at this time, but I suspect he flies enough to stay current, or maybe not even that much.

Next time you slander someone here, at least lie about a specific time, it makes it more believable.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So it's not so much ALPA, rather it is the local leadership and the membership. NetJets, Horizon, UPS and SWA are the "crown jewels" right now. Not a single one is ALPA. In fact, American has done better than most of it's peers, again not ALPA.

If you include FedEx that would weaken your arguement...

Meanwhile, on the ALPA regional front, some very strong local leaderships have suffered tremendous losses. ALG, PDT, ACA, CMR, and MSA had very strong local groups. Without some "brand scope" protections, even the strongest local leadership and pilot group will be left hanging in the wind.....

Tell me more about failed ALPA at ACA......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Kinda like die-hard ALPA chest thumpers.....

"ALPA has great legal and aeromedical"
"ALPA has great resources"
"If you give more money to ALPA PAC, these problems will be solved"
"If we had a Democrat in the White House, these problems will be solved"
"The ASA/CMR/DAL PID was a seniority grab"

Wash, rinse, repeat......

No Joe.... These aren't wonder drugs... the are small efforts to help hold the line... MAYBE move the ball a few yards down the line.

Oh and one more thing that helps ... pilots who don't sue the very organization... I talked to the ASA MEC Chair the other day....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

On the otherside of the coin, when a teamster pilot group stikes, those same truck drivers stop making deliveries.... they don't cross picket lines PERIOD! ALPA groups will pick up stiking carriers passengers and aircraft as long is it doesn't meet some narrow definition of "stuck work" (ie CMR strike).

RLA John RLA!!


Besides when CMR struck the ACA pilots refused to do thier flying...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Agreed, but not because they are ALPA. They did quite well before they joined ALPA. There is much more that goes into it than being ALPA or not.

FedEx is making large amounts of money, which helps when you go to negotiate for a piece of the pie. This is why I think a pro-business govt. is better than an anti-business govt. In fact, one could argue that FedEx has benefited greatly from free trade and globalization.

And so has UPS John..... as you know the UPS contract is a managment contract and the FX contract a loabor contract... look at the ratification numbers... the UPS pilot feel chumped...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Our dues go towards new excuses as to why nothing is being done. Thats all I have ever heard from a Union guy, excuses. JC has a nice lavish seat. He gets to drop all his line flying, for "Union Duties". Then picks up day off flying for time and a half.
Yeah, it's in the contract that he can do it. But to do it for 9 years, don't you think thats abuse of the system? Of course not, you're a die hard ALPA guy. Of course you'll make up some excuse as to why it's OK to do what he is doing.

And yet he was voted in by your fellow pilots.. maybe you should take your angst to the source... the membership...

Please tell me you voted.....(for your status reps)