Colgan Letters swaying your thoughts about ALPA?

[PCL_128]

I just can't get past these union dues. How can you take so much of the little money I have. That is my big gripe.

You think 1.95% is a lot of money? Remember, the only reason that you just got that payraise is because the Colgans are scared of ALPA. Just imagine what ALPA will be able to do once a new contract is negotiated.

unless I am a loser I will not need any of the ALPA services.

So, only "losers" end up with a medical problem and lose their medical? Only "losers" are falsely accused of sexual harassment? Only "losers" are concerned about seniority rights? Only "losers" get fatigued after a 16-hour duty day when the company still wants you to fly a part-91 ferry? I'm beginning to think that Bushhatesyou is right: you probably are management.

 

[suupah]

Everyone just calm down. People want immediate results from their 2% dues. The sad reality is, some people get stuck here for 6 years. It might not be a bad idea to improve things here for the long haul

 

[vectorvictor]

Not as stupid as you, with your kick azz grammar and all.. Seriously though, you are either managment or just plain ignorant.

Agreed.

 

[vectorvictor]

I just can't get past these union dues. How can you take so much of the little money I have. That is my big gripe. The magazine sucks and unless I am a loser I will not need any of the ALPA services. ALPA protects the weak. Someone inform me why I have to pay so much in dues?

If you drive a car you probably pay car insurance even though you plan not to crash your car. You probably shell out the money here for the health insurance nut you're not planning on getting sick. If you have a family you probably are betting some company you are going to die and paying them for life insurance. What happens if you loose your medical for 6 months? What happens if you lose it forever? As good as you are, what happens if your FO locks up the brakes and takes you off a runway somewhere? What happens if an injured passenger sues YOU for negligence? That 2% could be the best money you EVER spent. It could mean the difference between a really bad time in your life and ruining you financially and legally for the REST of your life.

You now work for a publically traded company. You no longer have the "family" protection when it comes to this type of stuff. Probably never really had it in the first place but we were all too ignorant to worry about it.

If you can convince us that the in house committee will bring this all to the table, you might sway some votes. Truth is I don't think that you can. I'm not in favor of a union for a pay raise. I'm not in favor of a union to stop from doing the Colgan every once in a while. I'm in favor of a union to protect my livelyhood and ultimately protect my family from the tremendous liability and risk in my profession.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The company pays your paycheck.....unions fill in the amount....


Hows that for a nice working relationship...

 

[Dr King]

That is right....

The expenses are reported as income. So an ALPA officer might get a living allowance to have an apt. in Wash DC. The allowance is reported as income.

Same with pilots. What is the company came to you and said "your living allowance each night in the hotel while you are on a trip costs us $50. We are adding that $50 in the formula in addition to your wages and benefits. So we will report that entire sum to the IRS."

Now you are paying taxes on $100K a year instead of $45k a year to fly a saab.

unionfacts. is a union busting website... do a search on this webboard for more info...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=53627

The mis-leading numbers posted by this anti-Labor group are intended for the gullible. Please don't think that just because it's posted on the internet, it's all true.​

The totals for all of those employees reflects money spent in their name...but not included in their compensation. For example, these nitwits are including unemployment insurance payments, medical insurance premiums, dental insurance premiums, pension contributions, per diem, money spent on airline tickets, and other items that are assigned a "value" under the DeLay-initiated LM-2 reporting requirements passed a couple of years ago.​

A few years ago my company sent me a statement that showed the "total compensation" and "value" of my job. According to their calculations I was receiving compensation of over $300,000 a year! They included the value of the non-rev travel benefits I had, and all of the stuff listed above. Since my actual compensation was less than half of their interpretation, their propaganda became joke fodder at my house and in the crew room.​

Add up all the cost you represent to your company (using their perspective) and it's easy to see that pilots are paid waaaaay too much! Naturally, the management toads who've led many of us to Red Ink Land aren't compensated nearly enough. Want proof? Go to unionfacts.com...where the truth lives!​

Info on bergman ​

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1021148&highlight=unionfacts#post1021148​

Your wron. Money recieved for housing is not considered part of your salarfy. These are tax free exemptions given to you by a company for living expenses--you dont have to report it, just like perdiem

 

[Dr King]

I urge all of our pilots to educate themselves. When they understand the facts, they will undoubtedly decide ALPA is best for all of us. The Organizing Committee at Colgan volunteered to do this with their own time and after looking at all the options decided to explore a relationship with ALPA. None of them are looking for credit, just to do what is right for Colgan pilots as a whole. Ask questions. Look for unbiased answers. Once you do that, you will understand why ALPA will represent us the best. We need represntation from a long standing professional pilot union. A legally binding contract with a grievance procedure.


www.alpa.org/colgan

1-877-GOT ALPA

Dont you think that the people organizing the pilot committee are doing the same thing. I just called then and joined their team. Its not just the two guys running it, they have alot of support from the pilots.

 

[PCL_128]

Your wron. Money recieved for housing is not considered part of your salarfy. These are tax free exemptions given to you by a company for living expenses--you dont have to report it, just like perdiem

The DOL requires unions to include that money in what they report. Remember, ALPA and other unions have different reporting requirements than corporations (due to anti-labor politicians).

 

[PCL_128]

Its not just the two guys running it, they have alot of support from the pilots.

Then why won't these pilots put their names out there for everyone to see? The organizing committee has put out a letter with all of their names and email addresses on it. Why does the "pilot committee" not include any names except the two management-picked leaders?

 

[Dr King]

You think 1.95% is a lot of money? Remember, the only reason that you just got that payraise is because the Colgans are scared of ALPA. Just imagine what ALPA will be able to do once a new contract is negotiated.



So, only "losers" end up with a medical problem and lose their medical? Only "losers" are falsely accused of sexual harassment? Only "losers" are concerned about seniority rights? Only "losers" get fatigued after a 16-hour duty day when the company still wants you to fly a part-91 ferry? I'm beginning to think that Bushhatesyou is right: you probably are management.

Im not going to be here in foru years when a contract comes through and we get a two dollar raise. We need something to change now so we can all benefit. Also, the chance of getting us a raise is very slim. Everyone in the airline industry has lost the ability to strike, especially with the recent court rullings agaisnt Northwest and Comair. Without the ability to strike the union will roll over and take it, their negotiating power severelyh decreased.

"16 hour days, sexual harrasment, failed PC", that is all I here from you ALPA guys. You sound like Bob Dole when he ran for president.You keep screaming these injustices that have nothing to do with what MOST of the pilots want. I dont want to pay money out of my pocket to protect somebody who should fail his PC. Trust me, Ive been through many PC and the guy on the right sucked, but they passes him without a problem. IRock is correct, the union protects the weak.

 

[Dr King]

Then why won't these pilots put their names out there for everyone to see? The organizing committee has put out a letter with all of their names and email addresses on it. Why does the "pilot committee" not include any names except the two management-picked leaders?

Talking to them they said they will. You have to remeber they were organizing the ALPA committee for months, they only started this a couple of weeks.

 

[suupah]

Dr.,

Why do you believe a committee will move the Colgan's to make improvements to our work rules, QOL, Q400 pay that will cost them more money and hurt their books when reviewed by the people on wall street?

I don't think they would be inclined to do so.

 

[Chamo]

In a moment of neutrality...This is going to get bad...regardless what happens dont forget the guy flying next to you (your right or left) is getting screwed with just as much as u, along with the 3rd crew member in the back...when it comes to ALPA or Pilot Comitte they mean nothing in the air.

 

[I ROCK]

3rd crewmember in the back lol.

 

[dingo222]

I thought it was a soda machine in the back, lol

 

[YMICFI]

Alpa

In a moment of neutrality...This is going to get bad...regardless what happens dont forget the guy flying next to you (your right or left) is getting screwed with just as much as u, along with the 3rd crew member in the back...when it comes to ALPA or Pilot Comitte they mean nothing in the air.

ALPA does mean everything in the air. We will have their backing and support at all times. ALPA has done so much for our industry and how our jobs are done in the air. Safety, fatigue, FAR'S, etc. They have worked with the government for decades to make our jobs safer and more regulated.

 

[Chamo]

ALPA does mean everything in the air. We will have their backing and support at all times. ALPA has done so much for our industry and how our jobs are done in the air. Safety, fatigue, FAR'S, etc. They have worked with the government for decades to make our jobs safer and more regulated.

Come on u know that what im saying is as far CONTROL OF THE AIRCRAFT and its operation

 

[suupah]

Word on the street from most colganeers is that the letters from Mike are percieved as condescending, demeaning and completely false. I get the feeling that a lot of pilots are being swayed more toward a yes vote because of them.

 

[CA1900]

This whole "let's form an in-house organization" movement is straight out of the union-busting toolbox. It was used successfully to divide the pilot group at CommutAir, causing its union vote to fall short. Almost immediately after the union vote failed, medical insurance premiums increased by over $100 a month (about 10% of an FO's income). Profit sharing is basically nonexistent, the on-time bonus is gone, and here's the fun part:

The payscale at CommutAir hasn't gone up in seven years, while inflation has gone up over 20%. First year 1900 captain pay hasn't changed in seventeen years. That payraise in 2000 for second-year-and-up was only 20 cents an hour. That's what you get when you have no union, and no legal power to bargain collectively.

Im not going to be here in foru years when a contract comes through...

You never know when the industry's going to crash, and you get stuck at a place longer than you planned. Pilots treating the job like a stepping stone--a rite of passage to be suffered--is why its pay and working conditions are so bad.

Don't make the mistake CommutAir's pilot group did and fall for the "in-house pilot association" BS. It started exactly the same way: one of management's golden boys "came up with" this idea for a "mutual interest committee" to act as a liaison between the pilot group and management. Enough pilots believed "in-house" was a better way to go than the big, bad national union telling them what to do, and the group fell 7% short of voting ALPA in.

Meanwhile, despite the hard work by line pilots who had joined the committee, nothing substantial was ever gained by the pilot group. And since the union vote had already failed, there was no reason to cave to anything the committee tried to do. It had no power. This was all as management intended, under the advice of its law firm, Ford & Harrison.

Don't buy it, guys. If it's not a proper union, then you have no power to negotiate anything. You can ask, and they'll say no, just as they always have.

Bargaining under the Railway Labor Act is messy, yes. But it's the only real avenue you have under the law to better your working conditions. Use it!

 

[DoinTime]

Do tell the story of CCair and put in on a thread here so that Colganeers can read and understand. Heck even better if you belonged to CCair at some point.

Here are some news clips from back then. Those who are interested can find about anything they need via google.

Latest News from ALPA on Mesa IssueWednesday, July 03 2002 @ 02:00 AM GMT
Email Story | Print Story
WASHINGTON, D.C.— Captain Duane Woerth, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA) today issued the following statement regarding the National Mediation Board’s (NMB) determination that Mesa Airlines, Inc., Air Midwest, Inc. and CCAir, Inc. constitute a single transportation system:


“ALPA is extremely pleased that the NMB upheld the Association’s assertion that these Mesa Air Group, Inc. subsidiaries are in fact a single carrier for collective bargaining purposes. The NMB ruling validates what our pilots have long known – that labor relations for all Mesa Air Group carriers are controlled by Mesa Air Group President Jonathan Ornstein.

“The decision by the NMB puts Mr. Ornstein on notice that his corporate shell game of threatening to shift jobs and airplanes from one carrier to another in order to decimate wages and working conditions for all Mesa Air Group pilots and undermine the pilots’ rights to representation is being closely scrutinized. Ever since Mesa Air Group purchased CCAir in 1999, Ornstein’s strategy has been to divide and conquer, attempting to pit the pilots of CCAir and Mesa against each other within his corporate empire. He has systematically dismantled CCAir, stripping it to a core of only one airplane and two spares, simply to maintain a legal operating certificate.
“Under the threat of shutting down the company, CCAir management has placed unwarranted pressure on its pilots to replace their current contract with greatly concessionary working conditions in the absence of any demonstrated economic justification. Pilots should not have to choose between keeping their jobs, working under ridiculously poor conditions, or having their work transferred to an upstart non-union carrier – yet Ornstein has subjected the pilots of CCAir to exactly this fate in hopes of pressuring Mesa pilots to accept substandard provisions in their new contract. “ALPA has pledged its full support to battle Jonathan Ornstein’s scorched earth management tactics so reminiscent of Frank Lorenzo. With the proposed start up of Freedom Air, a new non-union subsidiary of the Mesa Air Group, Jonathan Ornstein intends to transfer Mesa Airlines assets, jobs, and work opportunities to a non-union carrier to the detriment all Mesa Air Group employees, much in the way that Frank Lorenzo did under the umbrella of the Texas Air Corporation.”

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Release #02.77
August 30, 2002

​

Court Upholds ALPA’s Rejection Of Concessionary Contract in CCAir Suit
CHARLOTTE, N.C.---A federal district court judge yesterday rejected efforts by Mesa Air Group to judicially impose a concessionary collective bargaining proposal for pilots at its CCAir subsidiary.

The suit was initially brought by a CCAir pilot and then joined by management after the president of the Air Line Pilots Association indicated he would not sign the proposed concessionary contract amendment. Although the proposal had been accepted by CCAir local union leaders and members, ALPA’s Constitution and By-laws requires that its president review and approve each collective bargaining agreement before it can be effective.

ALPA President Duane Woerth declined to approve the extremely concessionary proposal, which came in the context of an unbroken campaign of threats and intimidation by CCAir and Mesa Air Group to shut down the carrier if the pilots did not give up their existing agreement. President Woerth refused to approve the proposed agreement because it unjustifiably degraded pilot working conditions and offered no job security for CCAir pilots in return for the concessions. President Woerth also determined that the carrier’s management never demonstrated the need for the requested concessions and failed to show how the concessions would help save the carrier or the pilots’ jobs.

In denying a motion for a preliminary injunction which sought to order President Woerth to approve the concessionary proposal, Chief U.S. District Judge Graham C. Mullen agreed with ALPA that the requirement that its president review and approve collective bargaining agreements was well known to CCAir representatives and that there could be no collective bargaining agreement without that approval. Judge Mullen also noted that the rejected proposed agreement would likely make no immediate difference to the status of CCAir and its pilots, observing that their fate rests in the decisions of the carrier’s sole customer, US Airways, as to the flying it will permit CCAir to perform on its behalf.

"We are gratified that the court’s decision upholds the integrity of the bargaining process and recognizes the right of ALPA to safeguard pilot working conditions from unjustified attacks by management. At this point, we are hoping that we can take this out of the courtroom and back to the bargaining table, where it belongs, so that we can work together to try to save CCAir pilots’ jobs," Woerth said.[/FONT]