DAL April 30 it is.....

[General Lee]

Why would Delta merge them at all? Delta did not merge ASA even though we had much more operational integration, the same union and had been running 105 seat jets.

I'm just throwing that out there. When ASA was bought most of my senior friends at Delta thought we would be stapled and were surprised by the eventual turn of events.

Don't get me wrong, I would want a merger, but the precedent at Delta is actually not to merge. Particularly when you consider the JetBlue fleet has more in common with Chautauqua than Delta.

I think our contract has something in there about owning another airline with planes that have seats more than 76 seats. But, since they are not ALPA, if we did buy them they would have very little protection. Your BAe146s with 105 seats were grandfathered in. And, you know we have decreased the number of different planes in our fleet from 13 to 7 in the past few years.(remember the MD11, L1011, 767-200, 727, 737-300, 737-200?) I am sure we could add two more, the A320 and E190. You never know. Bastian wants to be number 1 in NYC, so we have to do some things before we get there. We have to fight CAL, AA, and Jetblue.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Curious why you think JetBlue should be merged and ASA and Comair should not have been? Really curious given that 49% of Delta's block and probably a majority of domestic hours are now flown by non seniority list pilots as a result of this position. (Not to mention a completely unneccesary furlough)

Again, I think all Delta flying should be done by Delta pilots - always have. But I'm befuddled as to why Delta pilots think JetBlue pilots are "worthy" when a jihad was waged on ALPA members who had been performing Delta flying for years.

An arbitrary 76 seats doesn't hold much water while I sit here and watch a 90 seater taxi past the window and park where the 105 seater used to park under the same connection banner.

And ASA's 105 seat limit was negotiated down to 50 seats with a limited number of grandfathered 70's. Why not just do the same to JetBlue and flippin take their airplanes?

Guess I need to hurry up and get over things that happened 8 years ago, but darn, the Delta seniority list did not HAVE to shrink by more than a third and it would not have have been the end of the world if I ended up at the same place on the list that I will now, if hired.

 

[Ben Johnson]

Not sure if anyone said it but in the eyes of Dalpa JB is a non union shop. There is nothing that needs to be done other how well the Delta guys want to sleep at night. JB also has been one of Delta's LCC thorns. I hope I dont see this but all of JB personel do not have any of the protection provided by a union unless something was written in the purchess agreement of the airline. Now reality is with all those airplanes pilots do need to fly them. But at what pay rate. First year pay is alot better than any other in the eyes of managment. But then you have all the problems associated with dapla FO ousting JB captains and the training mess it would cause. Again JB pilots have no protection from getting the boot other than logistical common sence and some sort of morals. I am sure the delta pilots are running around thinking they can't wait to blast some poor JB crew out of there seats. If the plane are purchessed they need crews and fast. If fences are throne up and and JB personal are stapled... maybe... all the flamers can run around screaming murder or yippidy do da and look into there crystal ball for that one.

 

[elag777]

Easter Bunny

B6 has a market cap of a little under 3 billion, not to mention the stock owned by employees. What would make anyone think that the B6 board would consider an offer from DAL or even take it seriously? I think the DAL creditors would want to see that kind of money being returned to them rather than on frivalent spending? DAL said no to LCC. Midwest said no to Airtran, I think the same would happen with this wonderful idea.
I do wish all the DAL folks the best in "coming out" on the 30th though.

 

[General Lee]

Not sure if anyone said it but in the eyes of Dalpa JB is a non union shop. There is nothing that needs to be done other how well the Delta guys want to sleep at night. JB also has been one of Delta's LCC thorns. I hope I dont see this but all of JB personel do not have any of the protection provided by a union unless something was written in the purchess agreement of the airline. Now reality is with all those airplanes pilots do need to fly them. But at what pay rate. First year pay is alot better than any other in the eyes of managment. But then you have all the problems associated with dapla FO ousting JB captains and the training mess it would cause. Again JB pilots have no protection from getting the boot other than logistical common sence and some sort of morals. I am sure the delta pilots are running around thinking they can't wait to blast some poor JB crew out of there seats. If the plane are purchessed they need crews and fast. If fences are throne up and and JB personal are stapled... maybe... all the flamers can run around screaming murder or yippidy do da and look into there crystal ball for that one.

Ben,

I was just joking. I am sure IF IT HAPPENED AT ALL, there would be huge fences and nobody would be displaced, for awhile. But if we were in expansion mode I am sure some JB pilots could bid DL 767ER INTL FO and move to the INTL side too eventually. It would probably all work out, if it happened. Long term though, it may take awhile to upgrade if you haven't already, with 3000 Delta FO's in front of you. It is all speculation until something happens, and that isn't for sure yet, although you may want to read my other thread about reinvesting in NYC (according to our CFO). It is interesting, and puzzling.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

B6 has a market cap of a little under 3 billion, not to mention the stock owned by employees. What would make anyone think that the B6 board would consider an offer from DAL or even take it seriously? I think the DAL creditors would want to see that kind of money being returned to them rather than on frivalent spending? DAL said no to LCC. Midwest said no to Airtran, I think the same would happen with this wonderful idea.
I do wish all the DAL folks the best in "coming out" on the 30th though.

Here are a few statements (in random order from a couple different articles) that you can maybe piece together. Nobody really knows what the plans are, but it seems like they want to build up JFK, and be the big fish in NYC. You never know....


Mr. Bastian said Delta has completed plans for a long-term strategy at JFK International airport in New York City, but the airline "needs to be looking at alternatives" to its current facilities there, as competition heats up from other airlines. Delta's goal is to generate sustained profitability in the New York market, while holding the biggest market share at JFK and LaGuardia airports combined.



Also, Delta said it has positioned itself to reinvest roughly $6 billion into its business. The company said it's generating strong cash flow from operations, while strengthening its balance sheet.





When mergers do occur, Mr. Grinstein said he expects Delta to be an acquirer.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PowerRanger]

Why would Delta want to add the A320 to it's fleet type? Rumor has it that they have wanted EMB190's and of course 787's and maybe 748's for some Australian flying.

But the A320's for B6 are leased, I believe. Why not just return them?

 

[General Lee]

Why would Delta want to add the A320 to it's fleet type? Rumor has it that they have wanted EMB190's and of course 787's and maybe 748's for some Australian flying.

But the A320's for B6 are leased, I believe. Why not just return them?

I guess they could do that, if it happened at all. Not all at once, I would bet. The A320s provide better feed than Comair RJs.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[michael707767]

Ben,

I was just joking. I am sure IF IT HAPPENED AT ALL, there would be huge fences and nobody would be displaced, for awhile.

for the record, I want to say that I believe no matter what the integration methon in any merger, no one gets displaced. You keep your seat. If that means some FOs at Delta are senior to some guys flying captain at JB (for example) then so be it. Same thing when USAir/AWA come out with thier list

 

[michael707767]

Why would Delta want to add the A320 to it's fleet type? Rumor has it that they have wanted EMB190's and of course 787's and maybe 748's for some Australian flying.

You will never see a 747 at Delta unless they come in a merger. And even then they would only be around until Delta could unload them.

 

[elag777]

Two reasons this will not take flight is the PBGC and the SEC. The horse is out of the barn on the hill. Pensions will have to be restored before companies can go shopping.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Why would Delta want to add the A320 to it's fleet type? Rumor has it that they have wanted EMB190's and of course 787's and maybe 748's for some Australian flying.

But the A320's for B6 are leased, I believe. Why not just return them?

747-8 will never happen at DL, and why would they want them; as they would get better 'range and CASM' numbers out of the 777s. Don't work for DL, but trust me, won't happen, simply because it doesn't make any sense.

Also, don't work for JB, but I believe that some of their A320s are leased and some are 'owned' (financed by bond debt, but still considered as owned).

All of this is still nothing but rumors, but much of it would make sense for DL; newer terminal (much quicker then re-do of their own), eliminating a competitor at JFK, and improving market share and 'feed' there. And, if it did happen; DL could consider using the 320s as a longterm replacement for the MD-88s. Even though the lease payments on these a/c were greatly reduced in bk, longterm the 'fuel savings' could pay-off (think $70-80/barrel), might make sense. But, who the heck knows.

just my $0.02

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Two reasons this will not take flight is the PBGC and the SEC. The horse is out of the barn on the hill. Pensions will have to be restored before companies can go shopping.

I'm sorry, did I miss a 'law' that was passed on this issue?? Or are you talking about the "chest beating and Hot Air" for elected reps during the whole DL/LCC thing?? Would be nice if you were right, but "$$$money talks and....." well you know the rest. The fight and process to 'restore and fully fund' the terminated pensions would probably be much much longer than the process (time) it took them to $hit can them. Just my guess.

Just don't think this would stand in the way of a 'plan to build a bigger, better airline' lol. More of a problem for a DL/JB thing would be the NY senators/congressmen, as JB is/has been their 'favored stepchild' and would surely talk a lot of "B.S." unless it was something that JB really wanted. However, elected reps spouting "B.S" jee like that would be something new.

 

[SkiFishFly]

- Don't you need to have money or a decent credit rating to buy stuff?

- Would Oberstar really allow a competitor to be swallowed up like that? Didn't one or two of the Delta guys talk about the savior Oberstar wanting to protect consumers?

 

[General Lee]

- Don't you need to have money or a decent credit rating to buy stuff?

- Would Oberstar really allow a competitor to be swallowed up like that? Didn't one or two of the Delta guys talk about the savior Oberstar wanting to protect consumers?

Maybe you missed these quotes: (remember, the company thinks it will be worth about $10 billion on emergence from BK---there is some cash)



Mr. Bastian said Delta has completed plans for a long-term strategy at JFK International airport in New York City, but the airline "needs to be looking at alternatives" to its current facilities there, as competition heats up from other airlines. Delta's goal is to generate sustained profitability in the New York market, while holding the biggest market share at JFK and LaGuardia airports combined.



Also, Delta said it has positioned itself to reinvest roughly $6 billion into its business. The company said it's generating strong cash flow from operations, while strengthening its balance sheet.





When mergers do occur, Mr. Grinstein said he expects Delta to be an acquirer.





Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

747-8 will never happen at DL, and why would they want them; as they would get better 'range and CASM' numbers out of the 777s. Don't work for DL, but trust me, won't happen, simply because it doesn't make any sense.

Also, don't work for JB, but I believe that some of their A320s are leased and some are 'owned' (financed by bond debt, but still considered as owned).

All of this is still nothing but rumors, but much of it would make sense for DL; newer terminal (much quicker then re-do of their own), eliminating a competitor at JFK, and improving market share and 'feed' there. And, if it did happen; DL could consider using the 320s as a longterm replacement for the MD-88s. Even though the lease payments on these a/c were greatly reduced in bk, longterm the 'fuel savings' could pay-off (think $70-80/barrel), might make sense. But, who the heck knows.

just my $0.02

We don't need 748s and would probably use 777-200ERs or LRs. Air New Zeland is slowly replacing a lot of its trans pacifc flying with 777s also. They fly nonstop from Aukland to SFO, LAX, and soon YVR using 777s. (one of them goes onto LHR from LAX, and they still have a 744 doing one of the two flights a day from AUK to LAX) But, Qantas will be using the A380, so who knows....?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PowerRanger]

Well, I know two Delta pilots who told me that DL was *considering* the 748 for some possible new Australian flights. But, yea they told me that it was just a "check airman rumor" as they were told by a check airman.

So I forgot to originally say take it with a grain of salt. Now, I wouldn't mind seeing the 777-300ER in Delta colors!

 

[General Lee]

Well, I know two Delta pilots who told me that DL was *considering* the 748 for some possible new Australian flights. But, yea they told me that it was just a "check airman rumor" as they were told by a check airman.

So I forgot to originally say take it with a grain of salt. Now, I wouldn't mind seeing the 777-300ER in Delta colors!

There will be a new revised paint scheme when we come out of BK, and the widget is back on the tail too. I think most of our 777 options or orders will be changed to the 777LRs, that can make the nonstop flights.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Nindiri]

dang. You guys go through more paint schemes. What is this now, like the 4th change in less than ten years, not even counting Song?

 

[General Lee]

dang. You guys go through more paint schemes. What is this now, like the 4th change in less than ten years, not even counting Song?

Thong had (or has still) a funky paint scheme, but the widget always has been our symbol. If the planes have to get repainted every couple years, then a new paint scheme with the widget back on it would be appropriate now.


Bye Bye--General Lee