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Hawaii in a X...

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NW Flyer

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Posts
141
So, our flight department is considering a Citation X. One typical mission would be from Seattle to Hawaii.

Can any of you seasoned "ten" guys (or gals) give me some insight on this trip?
---Are we going to run into a wet footprint?
---Will we have to run down to Cali for a fuel stop?
---Should we be looking for something else?
 
You should ask the guys at NetJets. They fly over there all the time but have very strict rules of when they can or cannot. I can guarentee that no one there will fly with a wet footprint.
 
X

Flew to Hawaii with out any problem from Sacramento, just crew, flew back with 3 pax, normal bags, landed in SFO, and upon touch down, the guy in the back advises us in a bit of a panic that he wanted to go to San Jose. Taxed back out did a tower to tower after the tower had closed in San Jose, landed with 1800 lbs, so I think it would work well for you, but there is always the occasion when winds will :eek: :rolleyes: stop your crossing. This would not be a very high percentage on that route though. By the way ,the paper work said SFO, so we did make the mistake in not confirming it with the passenger.
 
X man said:
...landed in SFO, and upon touch down, the guy in the back advises us in a bit of a panic that he wanted to go to San Jose.
Click to expand...
As the knucklehead sat there for 4 hours with the airshow staring him in the face saying "ETA in San Fransisco: X:XX" :smash:
 
Thanks Xman for your input.

G100, sorry, Falcon is not an option (don't ask...).

Any more words of wisdom out there? I hope so!
 
Aw, common I love a great story!

Lemme guess, he hates the French or he "thinks" 3 engines cost to much to support? :)
 
Honestly, I don't know the whole story. Suffice it to say, we are not shopping for a French airplane.

Hey, it's HIS money, right?
 
We had a fleet of 5 X's at my last outfit which I flew on, and we never did Hawaii because it was simply too risky.. Our Falcon 2000, and EMB Legacies however did them frequently.
 
Too risky? I have flown to Hawaii in the X a few times from KSJC. No risk at all, and no wet footprint either. KBFI is a bit further away, but I would think you could do it most days with no wet footprint.
 
152SIC said:
Too risky? I have flown to Hawaii in the X a few times from KSJC. No risk at all, and no wet footprint either. KBFI is a bit further away, but I would think you could do it most days with no wet footprint.
Click to expand...

don't know what their logic was, but that was what the DO and CP more or less said.. we didn't do NAT or PAC on the X..
 
Exactly the conversation I was looking for. Keep it coming!

G100, thanks again, but not sure the 300 is in our budget. (Nor do we believe it would make a good investment...)
 
Still looking for someone (that doesn't work for Cessna) to help me believe Seattle to Hawaii will not produce a wet footprint...
 
junkjockey said:
Pardon my ignorance but what is a wet footprint?
Click to expand...

An engine failure or loss of pressurization at your halfway point will force you lower, slow you down and increase your fuel burn. If this means you have to swim the last 100 miles, then you have a wet footprint.

Simplified explanation, but you get the drift.
 
Last edited:
NW Flyer said:
Still looking for someone (that doesn't work for Cessna) to help me believe Seattle to Hawaii will not produce a wet footprint...
Click to expand...

NW, have the usual flight planning outfits burn you some summary flight plans with ETP's and such. They can use currents winds, Boeing winds, etc...

That'll tell you what you're up against.
 
G100, thanks again, but not sure the 300 is in our budget. (Nor do we believe it would make a good investment...)

A Challenger 300 is less than the cost of a new X. Space, range, DOC, and reliability are just a few attributes that the 300 has over the X. You may want to fly in one before you make a decision.

good luck.
 
That's the first post i've seen with a price restriction on it..makes sense now. I still think you'll realize the investment even if it takes two years to get a 300.
 
This was just in my "IN" box. This might help going from BFI-PHKO. I know it talks about high-hot, but it seems that winglets are mainly used to increase range.

Cessna To Offer Winglets on Citation X
Cessna announced today that it is partnering with Winglet Technology of Wichita to offer the company’s patented elliptical winglets as a retrofit later this year for in-service Citation Xs. Though flight testing won’t begin until later this summer, Winglet Technology president Bob Kiser told AIN the design has been shown to “significantly improve performance” on hot days at higher elevations. Cessna is unable to offer specific performance figures or a price at this time, although the company said it is also looking at incorporating the winglets on the Citation X production line in the future. This is the first contract for Winglet Technology. According to Kiser, the company’s winglet forms a continuous curving shape in the form of an ellipse. A Cessna spokeswoman said the company is not concerned about working with such an unproven design and that it evaluated other, better-known designs.[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]
 
if you get someone to run some flight plans for you, make sure they plan some using winter jet stream patterns. sometimes they come low enough and strong enough to make some lesser ranged planes have to stop in the bay area for fuel.
 
Avalanche said:
Will a Lr-60 make the trip from LAX?
Click to expand...

From what little I know of the 60, that would be a bad idea in my view..

remember, there is nothing between the west coast of the US and HI.. not a sigle rock.
 
V70T5 said:
We had a fleet of 5 X's at my last outfit which I flew on, and we never did Hawaii because it was simply too risky.. Our Falcon 2000, and EMB Legacies however did them frequently.
Click to expand...


Sorry Sam, but I gotta bust your Ba!!s. I did HI four times over there, twice it was a turn....now those trips were killers. Hope you're enjoying your new gig. Lets talk about the middle east issue, thats a fun topic...LOL!
 

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