New rules from TSA

[737 Pylt]

737 Pylt,
Sorry, got to disagree with you on this. I don't know how long you have been in this business, but you've probably been here long enough to see how far things have deteriorated in this "profession" along with all the nonsense we put up with. It just keeps getting worse. I can really see it in the frustration of many of the Ca's I fly with. I guess many just get fed up enough to quit. Frankly I'm close to that point. The only people left will be those willing to work for less than a typical sanitation worker. Maybe that's the kind of person this "profession" deserves. Until we collectively as a group do something to stop this nonsense, it will only get worse. Sorry for the rant.

Its ok to disagree....But to act like a complete ass in public is just wrong.
Just ask to speak w/ a supervisor. Johnny P is good at making an ass out of himself on this board. No need to do it in public.
Has anyone seen the latest publications from ALPA? The TSA did not even consult with them before putting these BS procedures in place. I know that our union is working right now to rectify this!

737

 

[SWA GUY]

Just comply, and waste as much time at the checkpoint as possible. Don't take anything off. Fumble with your cellphone. Make them search you and wand you. The more we jam up the checkpoints, the faster this stupid rule will be changed!

It's time we pilots grow a set, and practice a little CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE at the checkpoint!!!!

Jam up the checkpoints, piss off the pax(who pay our salaries), and end up with less travelling public. That's a good idea?

How about this: Call your union and get a grass roots effort going to get them involved with the TSA descision making process. Tell your union that you/we are not going to let the TSA run roughshod over us and make rediculous rules everytime they get a knee-jerk reaction. I just talked to my Union/Association Prez about this very thing.

Currently SWAPA and APA are working on a biometric solution for the crews, and it seems to be getting traction. ALPA is working on the National ID thing which seems to be stalled. We need to all get together on this thing, one way or another.

I hope everyone calls their Union leadership and their Congressman and raises h*ll about this. The alternative is to complain on message boards, and we know where that'll get us.

Good luck!

 

[Occam's Razor]

Currently SWAPA and APA are working on a biometric solution for the crews, and it seems to be getting traction. ALPA is working on the National ID thing which seems to be stalled. We need to all get together on this thing, one way or another.

The biometric TWIC was approved by both the FAA and the GAO years ago! ALPA (Duane Woerth) shepherded it though both agencies. DHS and TSA shot it down because it wasn't their project, and they wanted to do their own "study" on the issue.

On the backside, the airlines opposed the approved TWIC plan because it required them to pay for the cards and the readers/monitors at the airports.

 

[CVG72]

Currently SWAPA and APA are working on a biometric solution for the crews, and it seems to be getting traction. ALPA is working on the National ID thing which seems to be stalled. We need to all get together on this thing, one way or another. quote]

I just signed up for CLEAR in cincinnati. They took a picture of my iris and my finger prints. why wouldn't that work for pilots? If it works for the passengers... I know the cutoms in canada have stations like that. I know the CLEAR thing is new, and not sure how it would work, but maybe they could have a station for pilots?

 

[AA717driver]

CLEAR is a great idea. It's NOT a public service. The airlines will balk at anything that makes our lives easier and costs them money.

Maybe go about it by being extra polite and (only while clearing security to operate a flight, not commute) make sure you let as many people go ahead of you as possible--schedule be d@mned.

"Sorry, I got held up in security." TC

 

[CVG72]

CLEAR is a great idea. It's NOT a public service. The airlines will balk at anything that makes our lives easier and costs them money.

I am paying 99$ a year for this. couldn't the airline pay that for their employees? I know it's not their responsibility but gee it seems some much easier. Your airline will NOT save money once you guys start missing flights and they start needing more reserve guys for that... Integrating that with CASS and have a special station for pilots in each concourse, doesn't seem that hard to me. Now taking the bus and the train back to security to just re enter after waiting in line, that's really stupid. wonder if they thought of that...

I am still wondering how CLEAR works. With my biometrics, how do they now I am not a terrorist? I know they do background check but still... I haven't received the card yet...

 

[SkiFishFly]

I think the real answer is that everyone who is inside of the "sterile" area at any airport (this includes rampers, fast food workers, gate agents, crew...) has to go through screening to get into the "sterile" area.
No more "side enntrances" or whatever else. Close all the "loopholes" at all airports. This is what TSA needs to do.
We would not have any additional screening requirements just to catch a ride home after working all day. No one can get inside the "secure area" without their person and bags having been screened. This way no additional or "special" screening required.
I agree with the post that unions need to join together and start "helping" TSA come up with the right answers.

 

[My name is EARL]

I think that is what the tsa wanted to do. If you read the sd it says employees in the sterile area must be screened prior to traveling on a flight. It does not say you must be re screened, but that is the offical position of my company. By the way I commuted home the other day and no one knew about the sd.
ALPA did say they or anyother union were asked about this prior.

 

[Lear70]

I think that is what the tsa wanted to do. If you read the sd it says employees in the sterile area must be screened prior to traveling on a flight. It does not say you must be re screened, but that is the offical position of my company. By the way I commuted home the other day and no one knew about the sd.
ALPA did say they or anyother union were asked about this prior.

Agreed. This was supposed to be for EVERY employee who is going to TRAVEL.

Unfortunately, that doesn't help the guys who work together, one person clears security to travel, his buddy gets the stuff into the SIDA, they meet up and voila, the secured guy is now carrying contraband.

Really stupid loophole. Close them all, or leave them alone.

BRILLIANT!

 

[Dizel8]

If we can be entrusted to drive the jet, then there is no need for a security screening.

IMHO, the whole system wrt. aircrew screening is a joke. Run all flightcrews through the same background check as the FFDOs and I honestly doubt it is much different than the one we all underwent shortly after 9/11. Issue them a security card stating such, done deal.

I understand the intent of the TSA, but I sure am tired of the whole show.
We are either trusted or they need to shut down the air transport system all together!

 

[LearLove]

I just read the memo about this on my company website, some highlights other than having to go thru screening after working a trip are:

random crewmember screening at gates (AGAIN)
random inspections of aircraft - prior to boarding crew waits outside aircraft while TSA bozo inspects it - yes I had to read that part twice also, this is gonna be fun.

JUST F'ing stupid.

 

[TAWS]

The TSA has done more to help NetJets' et al's bottom line, than any marketing scheme they could EVER have come up with on their own!!

 

[Lear70]

Ayuh, I can agree with that one.

 

[Ty Webb]

Those baboons . . .

What they should be doing is getting a crew manifest at security screening, and skipping the whole process altogether. After all, we are going to be in the cockpit anyway, so the whole thing is pathetic and stupid.

ALPA and CAPA need to be all over this. I think the skies should stand still for a day. It's make a couple of points. . . . . .


.

 

[LearLove]

...so the whole thing is pathetic and stupid.

......... I think the skies should stand still for a day. . . . . . .


.

bingo, ding ding ding, we have a winner - however, sadly because we've ALL (flightcrews) basically become pu$$y whimp sh!tbags this will never happen.

 

[AAflyer]

Those baboons . . .

What they should be doing is getting a crew manifest at security screening, and skipping the whole process altogether. After all, we are going to be in the cockpit anyway, so the whole thing is pathetic and stupid.

ALPA and CAPA need to be all over this. I think the skies should stand still for a day. It's make a couple of points. . . . . .


.

BINGO!!!!


AAflyer

 

[e=mc2]

The passive disobedience idea is great. If you have sufficent crew, each one should take a separate line, backup the line as long as possible. Make every flight late at the gate - TSA screening delay. And do not forget to have a pair of nastys with plenty of ketchup and hershey marks on them on top in your bag.

TSA = Totally Stupid A@@wipes

 

[Citrusflyer]

I, for one, if sent out to be screened will not cut in line. I think it will become my duty to stand with everyone else. While, of course, my DH flight either leaves without me or it becomes seriously late. If the bottom line is affected the company will have no choice but to fight this stupid change.

 

[atrdriver]

I think the real answer is that everyone who is inside of the "sterile" area at any airport (this includes rampers, fast food workers, gate agents, crew...) has to go through screening to get into the "sterile" area.
No more "side enntrances" or whatever else. Close all the "loopholes" at all airports. This is what TSA needs to do.
We would not have any additional screening requirements just to catch a ride home after working all day. No one can get inside the "secure area" without their person and bags having been screened. This way no additional or "special" screening required.
I agree with the post that unions need to join together and start "helping" TSA come up with the right answers.

I disagree. The TSA needs to figure out that the crews could be their largest asset, instead of treating us like their biggest problem. Until these geniuses put two and two together and figure out that we have the controls in our hands it will never get better.

 

[Big Duke Six]

Have they done ANYTHING that addresses the latest problems they've had with rampers? These burdens all fall on flightcrews, while the backdoor is left wide open. This is sheer lunacy.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Yeah, show your maturity, act like a complete ass! We all know you're got at acting like an ass peniskramp, now, just prove it to the traveling public!


Wow, and to think you actually hold an ATP. While you're at it, just curse out the TSA folks in order to practice your civil disobedience, and make yourself look even moronic, if that's possible! Thanks for proving the point that the professionalism you display is just down right pathetic!


737

Its ok to disagree....But to act like a complete ass in public is just wrong.
Just ask to speak w/ a supervisor. Johnny P is good at making an ass out of himself on this board. No need to do it in public.
Has anyone seen the latest publications from ALPA? The TSA did not even consult with them before putting these BS procedures in place. I know that our union is working right now to rectify this!

737

Wow, talk about maturity! Five obscenities and six insults in just two posts. This guy is practically foaming at the mouth to insult me for simply suggesting that we jam up the TSA checkpoints in protest, of which several pilots seem to agree is a good idea.

News flash, 737 "Pylt": We get it. You don't like me. You don't need to keep repeating yourself.

You're an embarassment to your fellow pilots, our profession, and truly anyone literate enough to read your asinine posts.

Show of hands: How many of you Delta pilots are embarassed that this guy calls himself a Delta pilot? (which I seriously doubt he really is).

Have a nice day. See you next time you're dumb enough to shoot your mouth off before engaging your brain.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Jam up the checkpoints, piss off the pax(who pay our salaries), and end up with less travelling public. That's a good idea?

How about this: Call your union and get a grass roots effort going to get them involved with the TSA descision making process. Tell your union that you/we are not going to let the TSA run roughshod over us and make rediculous rules everytime they get a knee-jerk reaction. I just talked to my Union/Association Prez about this very thing.

Currently SWAPA and APA are working on a biometric solution for the crews, and it seems to be getting traction. ALPA is working on the National ID thing which seems to be stalled. We need to all get together on this thing, one way or another.

I hope everyone calls their Union leadership and their Congressman and raises h*ll about this. The alternative is to complain on message boards, and we know where that'll get us.

Good luck!

Well I disagree with several of your assertions.

First of all, I've called my union. Response: "They're working on it at the highest levels. Stand by". Yeah, I'll hold my breath on that one. ALPA has no 800 pound gorilla when it comes to the TSA. They don't really care what we think, and they answer to no one. We will get no sympathy in the beltway as long as Bush is still in the White House. His administrations has a proven track record on beating down unions.

As for it being a bad idea to piss off the pax who "pay my salary":

First off, you're missing the point. We WANT them mad. Maybe if they get mad enough, they'll write some letters to some important. people. THAT will get this changed a lot faster than us "whiny pilots" complaining about it.

Secondly, the pax don't pay my salary. My airline does. And I get paid regardless of whether my plane is full or not. In fact, since I work for ASA and we have a cost plus agreement with Delta, my airline makes money even if the plane is empty simply for completing the flight. So no, they're not even my passengers, they don't pay my salary, and I really don't care if thery're mad at me for jamming up the checkpoint. Again, maybe they'll write some letters and get it fixed.

Also, when we all spend 20 minutes at the checkpoint and miss our deadhead flights, our airlines operation will be affected and they will put pressure on the TSA via their union (the ATA) and congress.

 

[snozberry]

Well I disagree with several of your assertions.

As for it being a bad idea to piss off the pax who "pay my salary":
.....

Secondly, the pax don't pay my salary. My airline does. And I get paid regardless of whether my plane is full or not. In fact, since I work for ASA and we have a cost plus agreement with Delta, my airline makes money even if the plane is empty simply for completing the flight. So no, they're not even my passengers, they don't pay my salary, and I really don't care if thery're mad at me for jamming up the checkpoint. Again, maybe they'll write some letters and get it fixed.

Wow! I can't understand why Delta would shift ASA's flying to other DCI carriers. I also can't understand why Delta thinks ASA "degrades their brand". John, you have absolutely no business transporting people.

 

[Lear70]

It just goes to show... you can only push ANY person / employee group so far, then they either push back or become totally apathetic towards their job/customer.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

WOW...where does one start with all this....?
First of all, I've called my union. Response: "They're working on it at the highest levels. Stand by". Yeah, I'll hold my breath on that one. ALPA has no 800 pound gorilla when it comes to the TSA. They don't really care what we think, and they answer to no one. ---->Actually...ALPA's biggest problem is it's own pilot apathy. When pilots vote in overwhelming numbers to accept substandard contracts....they really have no one to blame but themselves. When the same 14 pilots show up at LEC meetings, you get what you deserve for the lack of participation. Heck, you've got an airline out there who has an MEC that has yet to take part in ALPA sponsored informational picketing. Guess they don't want to get on managements bad side. "Taking it Back'"? Sure....

As for it being a bad idea to piss off the pax who "pay my salary":

First off, you're missing the point. We WANT them mad. Maybe if they get mad enough, they'll write some letters to some important. people. THAT will get this changed a lot faster than us "whiny pilots" complaining about it.-->What we know they will do...is take their dollars somewhere else waaaaayyyy before they write any letters.

Secondly, the pax don't pay my salary. My airline does. And I get paid regardless of whether my plane is full or not. In fact, since I work for ASA and we have a cost plus agreement with Delta, my airline makes money even if the plane is empty simply for completing the flight. So no, they're not even my passengers, they don't pay my salary, and I really don't care if thery're mad at me for jamming up the checkpoint.--->Believe me...if ASA doesn't meet up with their agreements, your paychacks will end...or at least become somewhat smaller, regardless if your airplane is empty or not. The pax DO pay your salary...maybe indirectly, but they pay it. Give your pax some bad service ( which it appears you do) and see if this doesn't affect you.

Besides....how exactly does one "jam up" a security checkpoint?

 

[Lear70]

Rumor has it the TSA will be canceling that SD by the end of the week.

That's out of Herndon, by the way, so take it for what it's worth...

 

[John Pennekamp]

Wow! I can't understand why Delta would shift ASA's flying to other DCI carriers. I also can't understand why Delta thinks ASA "degrades their brand". John, you have absolutely no business transporting people.

Thanks for your opinion. Did you have anything intelligent to add to the discussion or not? You Delta boys really don't have any deep thoughts do you?

 

[John Pennekamp]

It just goes to show... you can only push ANY person / employee group so far, then they either push back or become totally apathetic towards their job/customer.

Exactly...

 

[John Pennekamp]

WOW...where does one start with all this....?
---->Actually...ALPA's biggest problem is it's own pilot apathy. When pilots vote in overwhelming numbers to accept substandard contracts....they really have no one to blame but themselves. When the same 14 pilots show up at LEC meetings, you get what you deserve for the lack of participation. Heck, you've got an airline out there who has an MEC that has yet to take part in ALPA sponsored informational picketing. Guess they don't want to get on managements bad side. "Taking it Back'"? Sure....

Agreed about the apathy in ALPA.

-->What we know they will do...is take their dollars somewhere else waaaaayyyy before they write any letters.

Regarding the pax, you can't prove it. Industry analyists prove time and time again that the "frequent flyers" (the ones most likely to vote with their feet) make up a small percentage of the total passengers, and the days of the majority revenue coming from this group ended right after 9/11 when the airlines lost control of pricing power.

Now passengers will shop around for the cheapest ticket. They'll swear up and down "I'm never flying Delta again!" until the next available ticket is $50 more. Then money overrules principle. The pax will keep coming

--->Believe me...if ASA doesn't meet up with their agreements, your paychacks will end...or at least become somewhat smaller, regardless if your airplane is empty or not. The pax DO pay your salary...maybe indirectly, but they pay it. Give your pax some bad service ( which it appears you do) and see if this doesn't affect you.

Regarding ASA, ASA has been providing bad customer service for over 25 years now. We still have very high load factors. Delta even had an opportunity to fix our problems (poor morale and lack of resources) but failed to do so when they owned us. So yes, now most of our employees have been beaten up for so long that we don't care anymore, and are just waiting for their next job offer, or for the place to be shut down (which we feel is coming soon).

Besides....how exactly does one "jam up" a security checkpoint?
.

You have 50 pilots take nothing off and go for the full screening at 10 minutes per person. That's 10 minutes that the line isn 't moving per pilot.