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CAL pilots beware

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SCOPE it out and lose it forever! Im sure those guys would rather be flying that same airplane at Frontier than a regional for better pay and work rules.
 
50 seat jets, PERIOD.

This pilot group learned their lesson when they allowed the Embraers in. Never again.

170's & 190's are small narrow bodies, and if CAL wants them, there will be CAL pilots flying them.
 
Amen brother,

most of the guys I talk to feel the same way even the 83-85 hires. I think this is on area we are unified in.
 
Thats about the only thing CAL pilots are unified on!
NO SCOPE RELIEF!!!


But at the same time I am not sure why everybody is freaking out about the CHQ Frontier operation when CHQ is simply replacing the CRJ-700s that Horizon was running for them.
 
Nope, they haven't learned. If there are CHQ 170's flying at Frontier, Frontier pilots let it happen. The race continues and 170's/190's operated by regional airlines will continue....And it's the major airlines of the country that allow it to happen....To those who haven't fallen yet, Stand strong! But I'm afraid a precident has already been set.

Southwest and Jetblue have it right....no regionals.
 
Palomino said:
this could be your future slipping away if you give up SCOPE. CHQ is already on CAL property and salivating at the thought of doing the job for half price or less. Frontier pilots may have made a big mistake. let's not do the same.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/christopher_92/ch2.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/christopher_92/chq.jpg
Click to expand...

I assume you are talking about CHQ managment salivating. I can assure you, the pilot group is not. I am sure that is what you meant, but I thought I would clarify.
 
In other news, you just gave up the identity of the XJT guy with all the hot avatars.
 
flatspin7 said:
Thats about the only thing CAL pilots are unified on!
NO SCOPE RELIEF!!!


But at the same time I am not sure why everybody is freaking out about the CHQ Frontier operation when CHQ is simply replacing the CRJ-700s that Horizon was running for them.
Click to expand...

We are also unified in our hatred of PBS. Some of the 83-85 hires I've spoken with are only interested in mo money. Just a few.
 
All right, lets get the facts straight before we start throwing names around.

First, Chautauqua is not the certificate flying for Frontier. It is Republic which is one of the three certificates operated by Republic Airways Holdings (Chautauqua, Shuttle America, Republic).

Second, the Republic pilot group is not "salivating at the thought" of anything. I do not even think our management is "salivating" at all right now. I think our management is very concerned about bitting off more then they could chew with the Continental expansion and the Frontier flying. We can not train crews fast enough. We currently have airplanes in SDF and IAH without any qualified crews to fly them.

Third, the Frontier flying is not much different than the flying that Horizon was doing. I think it is only an expansion of 5 airplanes.
 
Yeah, the Republic flying is ONLY a direct replacement for the Horizon flying that they did for us. There is no movement into our mainline system with the RJ's, so really i have no idea of where your original post has any credentials. Now if you want to talk about Frontier and companies salivating over our flying then you need to bring up Lynx, not Republic...
 
starchkr said:
Yeah, the Republic flying is ONLY a direct replacement for the Horizon flying that they did for us. There is no movement into our mainline system with the RJ's, so really i have no idea of where your original post has any credentials. Now if you want to talk about Frontier and companies salivating over our flying then you need to bring up Lynx, not Republic...
Click to expand...
Didn't F9's new contract allow for growth of the RJ fleet?
 
NuGuy said:
Heyas,

Can anyone give me the specifics of CAL scope as it stands right now?

Nu
Click to expand...
Allowed to be farmed out:
Turboprops up to 79 seats
Jets up to 50 seats.

Everything else we have to fly them. The company already came to us once and the Union said no. Wilson Poll was sent out (usually weighted for management answers) about scope the majority still said no to Scope relief. This is where it stands now, and as long as we don't merge with a carrier that gave up scope or CH11 this is how it will stay.

Now when we open Sec 6 who knows what the company will offer for our Scope clause, and who knows what it will take for 50.1% of the pilots to vote it away. One thing is for sure the demographics of this pilot group are definately changing for the better.
 
rtmcfi said:
Didn't F9's new contract allow for growth of the RJ fleet?
Click to expand...

It does to a limit...current fleet 2 for 1 then 1 for 1 after that. Also limit on seats and weight for those RJ's. Curently there are only plans for 17 RJ's, and the last ones will not be around until 2009, so not an immediate bombardment of RJ's. Plus, we have no place to put them in DEN right now, so adding a lot of aircraft would not do us any good until we can get all of our gate space figured out (probably around 2009 or so).

I personnally believe the RJ's are a good thing. Why should we send a 319 to a city with loads of only 25-40 percent during off peak seasons when the RJ's can handle it? When the loads come up for the season we then send mainline in. Frontier has been doing it with Horizon for years now...examples are Spokane and Boise. Winter months the RJ's get it, when the crowds return in the spring and summer months, it comes to mainline where we can fill the 319's.
 
starchkr said:
I personnally believe the RJ's are a good thing. Why should we send a 319 to a city with loads of only 25-40 percent during off peak seasons when the RJ's can handle it? When the loads come up for the season we then send mainline in. Frontier has been doing it with Horizon for years now...examples are Spokane and Boise. Winter months the RJ's get it, when the crowds return in the spring and summer months, it comes to mainline where we can fill the 319's.
Click to expand...

RJ's are fine...if mainline pilots fly them. otherwise your utopian theory, unfortunately, is exploited by management in each and every case. 17 RJ's flown at half price...i predict there will be more.

hope i'm wrong. very, very wrong.
 
starchkr said:
Plus, we have no place to put them in DEN right now, so adding a lot of aircraft would not do us any good until we can get all of our gate space figured out (probably around 2009 or so).
Click to expand...

Who says all the Airbus in Denver will stay in Denver? What's to keep the Company from opening a new domicile and moving half the fleet away from Denver... away from UA and Southwest? This would leave plenty of room for dozens of RJ's.

Of course we have great protections with regard to being displaced to a new domicile. Doesn't the Company allow paid time off to house hunt and for the actual move? In fact, don't they pay a large portion of the actual moving expense? I can't remember... Doesn't matter because I'm sure we have the ability to bid backwards to FO if we want to stay in Denver. Surely we've at least got that.

This new contract will be interesting. :puke:
 
What would you do if, say ........ CAL mngt came tp you and said, we need to get EMB 170/5s, if we're going to add _ 777s???

OR

If you want to keep your pensions, then we need to allow _ EMB 170/5s???

My point is that, CAL mngt will try to slip it past you, but they will make it very attractive to you guys. The Pilot group isn't salivating and we can't get Pilots for what we have already, but if you think that it will be a simple choice if/when they propose this, then I have a bridge for sale ....................

P.S. Palomino, stop acting like a little b!tch, your XJT pals are doing just fine, they have a good mngt group that is seeking out other opportunities - it may even prove to be a good thing for them.
 
TAWS said:
What would you do if, say ........ CAL mngt came tp you and said, we need to get EMB 170/5s, if we're going to add _ 777s???

OR

If you want to keep your pensions, then we need to allow _ EMB 170/5s???

My point is that, CAL mngt will try to slip it past you, but they will make it very attractive to you guys. The Pilot group isn't salivating and we can't get Pilots for what we have already, but if you think that it will be a simple choice if/when they propose this, then I have a bridge for sale ....................

P.S. Palomino, stop acting like a little b!tch, your XJT pals are doing just fine, they have a good mngt group that is seeking out other opportunities - it may even prove to be a good thing for them.
Click to expand...

Question? How would you feel about the 170's on property if you worked at CAL?
 
I wouldn't want them, but how are they any different than CR7s or CR9s??

CAL pilots are right to keep scope where it is - maybe there will be jobs for regional guys there. If you think for one minute that whining on a web-board will affect anyone's voting habits, should it ever come up, then you must be crazy. Senior Pilots at CAL have made it abundantly clear that they don't have the best interests of the junior pilots at heart - look at the pension, pay, benefits for newbies. EMB 170s will not affect senior guys - you do the math!
 
Pensions are already gone and we do not have any financial problems right now so CH11 is not anywhere on the horizon so we will not be canceling any orders.

The already asked the senior guys via the Wilson Poll if they are willing to give up Scope and they said no. The whole reason behind the Wilson Poll was to get a majority of guys to say they are willing to negotiate Scope. The questions are worded vaguely and it backfired on Management. I don't see any Scope relief in the near future.
 
Secret Squirrel said:
Unless they offer to fix the PBS mess.
Click to expand...

That is a possibility but the company already told us that they cannot go back to paper bids and I doubt that it would be enough to get Scope releif because it is basically screwing the bottom 50% which have the most to lose with Scope relief.
 
catIIIc said:
That is a possibility but the company already told us that they cannot go back to paper bids and I doubt that it would be enough to get Scope releif because it is basically screwing the bottom 50% which have the most to lose with Scope relief.
Click to expand...

Can't go back to paper bids?

How do the FA's bid? Paper bids with the same pairings and lines that look just like what we used to bid.

I'll have to call shenanigans on that one.............
 
SuperFLUF said:
Can't go back to paper bids?

How do the FA's bid? Paper bids with the same pairings and lines that look just like what we used to bid.

I'll have to call shenanigans on that one.............
Click to expand...


Exactly, it is total BS that we can't go back to paper bids, but they already said they can't so if they want Scope relief to s#@tcan PBS they will have to go back on their word about paper bids.
 
No I am not saying that, I am just saying that the company will not use it as a bargaining chip. Even if they did PBS is not enough to give up Scope, because of who PBS is screwing which is the bottom 50 percent which have the most to lose with Scope relief. I think this is one issue that we will not give up.

Plus this issue is dead until Section 6 next year, then who knows how long they will negotiate.
 
[FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva][FONT=ARIAL, Helvetica, Geneva]http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1184952/L

i hope you guys keep them away. Just imagine a gold globe on the tail. I for one dont want to see it. you could pretty much say bye bye to the 300s and 500s if you give up on scope. Dont let it happen.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
 
TAWS said:
P.S. Palomino, stop acting like a little b!tch, your XJT pals are doing just fine, they have a good mngt group that is seeking out other opportunities - it may even prove to be a good thing for them.
Click to expand...

what the heck are you talking about? i know how my XJT pals are doing. afterall...i worked there for a long time.

acting like a little what? what's the matter? did i poo poo on your pretty little plane?

so sorry.:crying:
 

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