Pilots Turning Scarce As Demand Takes Wing

[Phaedrus]

Kitty Darby is a tool! (What the hell kind of a name is Kit anyway?)

Apparently it's the name of a unit that likes to have David Hasselhoff's arse firmly planted on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykSzwYQV6PU

 

[BigMeat]

The only shortage we are experiencing is a shortage of pay! Its time to get militant! I have slowly been putin it to the man...I havent washed my pilot shirt in a week! So much for uniform standards ;0)

 

[McNugget]

Green, why don't you do us a favor and get out of aviation. My point was, I don't care the size of the jet, I think pilots should be paid a decent wage and I think my family should have medical benefits and I want my pension, so what the hell is wrong with that???

I think we (pilots) are our own worst enemies, always undermining and undercutting each other to get in the bigger plane or the new route, usually for less money...

I would rather fly a beat up old DC-9 on short domestic hops and make $150K with medical benefits and a pension than fly a shiny new 777 half way around the world and make less, with no medical benefits or pension. THAT WAS MY POINT.

Amen to that, bro.

 

[pilotyip]

All part of the 2007 hiring boom. Fits in with the growing worldwide shortage of pilots. SWA, FedEx, UPS, etc may have 1000's of resumes on hand but they are all the same resumes. The resume piles of available pilots at those airlines will go down at the rate of total airline hiring. In 2009 those resume stacks will be a lot shorter. The same thing happened in 2000 when airline hiring was truly booming.

 

[sleepy]

Sounds like something Kit Darby would write. The hiring boom of the 80's, 90's, etc........ LOL.

 

[wrgcareer]

I agree with BigMeat. The only shortage out there is in the pay department. Somehow we need to find some leverage.

I've had the recent privilege to "walk the line" with my Bros. out here in the west. I think we need a new sign to carry though. How about "Drunk and irresponsible leadership rakes in millions while the pilots get nothing".

 

[pilotyip]

Ways to get higher pay.

For all the pilots who want hirer pay, there are two ways to go about it. #1 with hold your services until you get the pay you want. This can also be done in your place of work to force management into higher pay rates. This is the same method used by the Comair, UAL, NWA, and DAL pilots in the late 90’s. Those were great victories for the pilot work force. #2 raise money in the capital markets, start your own airline, and pay the pilots whatever they think is fair for their services, and pay management no more than the average pilot's pay. Pitfalls with #1, there may be unemployed pilots who are desperate to feed their families and make house payments. These pilots may work at a lower wages than you would like. Pitfall with #2, are pilots willing to risk their own money in starting an airline?

 

[PHXFLYR]

I agree with BigMeat. The only shortage out there is in the pay department. Somehow we need to find some leverage.

I've had the recent privilege to "walk the line" with my Bros. out here in the west. I think we need a new sign to carry though. How about "Drunk and irresponsible leadership rakes in millions while the pilots get nothing".

.....I like that. Where can I find one?? By the way,thanks for joining us on the line.:beer:


PHXFLYR

 

[AdlerDriver]

Others are more optimistic.

"It's possible you'll see some spot shortages, but I really don't think you'll see long-term shortages," said economist Daniel Kasper, managing director and head of the transportation practice at LECG Group, a Boston-based consulting group.

"To the extent that airlines are having trouble finding pilots, salaries will go up, and that will draw military pilots."

Riiiiiiiight. Salaries will just "go up". Airline management is just going to decide - "Hey, you know, we just aren't getting the pilots we need. Guess we'd better raise those salaries."

First, there will always be some kid in an RJ or some other low paying job willing to make it to "the show" who will take whatever they happen to be paying.

Second, most of these concessionary contracts have lives extending well beyond the next year or two. For someone to suggest that any pay raise will occur before those contracts are up for negotiation obviously has no clue. Management is going to stiff-arm any changes for as long as they can.

 

[Ty Webb]

All part of the 2007 hiring boom. Fits in with the growing worldwide shortage of pilots. SWA, FedEx, UPS, etc may have 1000's of resumes on hand but they are all the same resumes.

I have to say . . . . YIP has been predicting this for a few years now. At first he sounded like an idiot, but now, he sounds more like an idiot savant .


.

 

[Huck]

Somebody told me that US private pilot students have decreased 50% since 9/11. Is this true?

 

[MINIME]

I will also concede that pilotyip has been stating this for a long time. However, the number of pilots being hired versus the thousands on file are but a minute fraction of the whole group.

Even if that group is made up of the same people. When in the best of cases, airlines are hiring as many as 350 pilots per year, it barely puts a small dent in the supply of perhaps as many as 10,000. You throw in the 65 rule and now the odds just went up astronomically for those of us waiting for a shot.

The folks getting on right now are the ones with the best contacts that will go to bat for them, period.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Recently, the FAA announced that student pilot starts are down 50% over the last 5 years. This info is available at the FAA site as well as AOPA.org.

cliff
GRB

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

India:
My great-grandmother, grandmother, 2/3 of my aunts, my mom and my sister all visited India a number of times. 1 of those 2 aunts used to live in Nepal, and visited frequently.

They all loved India.

cliff
GRB

PS-The aunt who lived in Nepal also lived in Thailand for about 10 years (after Nepal). She had a full-time cook, gardener, and maid, and a beautiful house with gardens. She said it was the best living situation she ever had. When she came home, she bought 2 houses in California and retired at age 45. She only works now if she feels like it.

 

[EA6BDriver]

there will always be some kid in an RJ or some other low paying job willing to make it to "the show" who will take whatever they happen to be paying. quote]

Exactly right. And with the age 65 thing pretty much a done deal, even those RJ kids will have 5 more years to wait before their "show".

Shortage of highly qualified pilots? Maybe. Shortage of "pilots" (willing to do just about anything to fly something big and shiny)? No way.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

There might be some what of a shortage at the regionals. I interview back at Eagle in 1999 and was offered a job, but never took because I already had one. They just sent me email asking if I would like to interview agian.

 

[wrgcareer]

.....I like that. Where can I find one?? By the way,thanks for joining us on the line.:beer:


PHXFLYR

Hey PHXFLYR, I need to open a printing business to make the signs for us to carry. Think of all the possibilities. I'll be out there again next time for sure.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Somebody told me that US private pilot students have decreased 50% since 9/11. Is this true?

Huck: Yes, it is true. However more of the people who start flying go on to get Commercial and Instrument ratings. I think that with the walls that have been built around airports and the much higher expense of aircraft ownership there are fewer casual pilots. Aircraft sales are off, except for the business people who can write off the acquisition and operational expenses.

The FAA's push for user fees (a way to get money for the FAA that does not involve Congressional oversight and budgeting) will also really dampen the interest of those casual students who figure out how to get through the security fense and out to the flightline and who are not put off by the idea of $125 hourly rentals.

The drop off in new pilot starts since 9/11 is the direct and inevitable result of government involvement. The freedom that attracted many of us to aviation is gone unless you get far away from the big cities.

 

[michael707767]

The drop off in new pilot starts since 9/11 is the direct and inevitable result of government involvement. The freedom that attracted many of us to aviation is gone unless you get far away from the big cities.

I think the bigger factor is the money and time off that attracted many of us are gone too. A ten year stint in the Air Force or 100-150K in student loans followed by several years as a regional FO is a high price to pay for a job that just isn't that great anymore. I expect a lot of perspective pilots are simply looking at the economics of the situation and realizing the return on investment just isn't there any more.

 

[Phaedrus]

prospective...
pipe?
Honestly.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I think the bigger factor is the money and time off that attracted many of us are gone too. A ten year stint in the Air Force or 100-150K in student loans followed by several years as a regional FO is a high price to pay for a job that just isn't that great anymore. I expect a lot of perspective pilots are simply looking at the economics of the situation and realizing the return on investment just isn't there any more.

True, but he asked about total pilot starts. Used to be the majority of Pilots in the US were of the Private Pilot variety that enjoyed aviation as a hobby. Those folks are disappearing - fast. (It cost me $18,000 to own and operate a Bonanza for 125 or so hours last year. It may not be around next year - thinking about an RV6 or something that is NOT certified)

 

[737 Pylt]

True, but he asked about total pilot starts. Used to be the majority of Pilots in the US were of the Private Pilot variety that enjoyed aviation as a hobby. Those folks are disappearing - fast. (It cost me $18,000 to own and operate a Bonanza for 125 or so hours last year. It may not be around next year - thinking about an RV6 or something that is NOT certified)

Don't worry fins....When you win the rjdc lawsuit, you'll be a millionaire and won't have to worry about money ever again!

737

 

[Dharmesh1231]

anyone know the shortage of pilots experienced in Asia right now...especialy India and China. Know anyone working there and what it's like

 

[~~~^~~~]

Don't worry fins....When you win the rjdc lawsuit, you'll be a millionaire and won't have to worry about money ever again!

737

I'm not a plaintiff - will not get anything.

 

[737 Pylt]

I'm not a plaintiff - will not get anything.

Oh for crying out loud, it was a joke!

737