? about GoJet

[toneal]

I have a simple question about GoJet. Why is there so much hostility towards this company? From the scab comments I have read, I am quick to assume this is a union issue but I am drawing a blank.

 

[toneal]

I think I see what happened. Gojet is created to get around union rules with TSA. That leads to more questions though.

Are TSA pilots still employed and represented?
Has Gojet joined the union?

Sorry for the questions, just trying to get a clear picture.

 

[Shrek]

Nice try junior - if you can't piece it together by now I think you should get out of the industry.

The attempts at flamebait is getting a little tired......

but what am I talking about - this IS FlightInfo right?!......lol

Flame away ....... TOOL

 

[toneal]

Nice try junior - if you can't piece it together by now I think you should get out of the industry.

The attempts at flamebait is getting a little tired......

but what am I talking about - this IS FlightInfo right?!......lol

Flame away ....... TOOL

You can make assumptions all you want. It was a serious question. I see alot of GoJet bashing going on and simply wanted to know why. I have developed no ill will towards them as I am not in the industry however I am in a union so I understand how the game goes, but you can go ahead and make your assumptions, very unprofessional answer from someone in a professional industry. The amount of time it took you to post that and you could of simply posted an answer to the question. From what I read so far, TSA pilots got screwed but I only have a very vague picture of what happened.

 

[urflyingme?!]

The company was created to ruin TSA pilot's chances of a fai deal. It worked.

 

[Tarzan]

The company was created to ruin TSA pilot's chances of a fai deal. It worked.

That pretty much sums it up. Create another pilot group and use them against your origional pilot group. Classic example of a whipsaw.

 

[lookin4better]

yes the company was formed to get around rules at the TSA.....just like AE to AA and all the other reionals to srcew over mainline pilots.....no one wants to hear this because they dont see it for what it really is....regionals are not a place to spend your career, they ALL low-ball for RFPs...And the ones who win the flying are all happy for the upgrades , reguardless who is 'losing' it....but of course they have no issues flying it...union or non-union.

I would say that when.... :

-TSA gives the planes the AMR owns back to AE...

- union carriers stop taking planes from non-union carriers

- regionals stop cheering for more and bigger planes and flying at the cost of mainline jobs

just to name a few......but as long as these things are happening GoJet pilots are no diifferent than the rest of the pilots at regionals....I sit at AE ( flying routes that were mostly AA/TWA----how is this different than GJ? ) and watch kids at other regioanls throwing banana peels in front of each other for upgrades and then complain about GJ , when they are doing the same thing.....is that unity? I think not....do we NEED pilot unity in this industry ....YES.....how do we get there? I have no idea....until then...in the regionals....its get your time and get out! I saw some AE 7 year FOs go to GJ when they first started ( great guys! ) ....I wish now I would have done the same, but at the time I was brainwashed by the GJ bashing BS. Flame on.....but I think some people need to look in the mirror before they start calling names....

 

[Iron Man]

urflyingme?!,
Why didn't your MEC see how fair it would have been if the TSA pilots had gone over to GJ, where they would have controlled both airlines with ALPA crews. I for one cannot phatom why this did not play out so. Seems like the MEC was miss led purposely or miss led purposely. Has there been any accountability?

 

[J32driver]

put gojets or hojets in the search function and you'll have DAYS of reading to understand this.

 

[Thunder]

It was a bad situation made worse by the TSA MEC who thought he could strong arm the situation and ended up really f-ing up, long story short.

The Go Jet pilots have nothing to be ashamed of. The tsa pilots very well could have had the flying (they voted not to take it by around 80%) if they were'nt so hard headed and brain washed.

 

[apache]

yes the company was formed to get around rules at the TSA.....just like AE to AA and all the other reionals to srcew over mainline pilots.....no one wants to hear this because they dont see it for what it really is....regionals are not a place to spend your career, they ALL low-ball for RFPs...And the ones who win the flying are all happy for the upgrades , reguardless who is 'losing' it....but of course they have no issues flying it...union or non-union.

I would say that when.... :

-TSA gives the planes the AMR owns back to AE...

- union carriers stop taking planes from non-union carriers

- regionals stop cheering for more and bigger planes and flying at the cost of mainline jobs

just to name a few......but as long as these things are happening GoJet pilots are no diifferent than the rest of the pilots at regionals....I sit at AE ( flying routes that were mostly AA/TWA----how is this different than GJ? ) and watch kids at other regioanls throwing banana peels in front of each other for upgrades and then complain about GJ , when they are doing the same thing.....is that unity? I think not....do we NEED pilot unity in this industry ....YES.....how do we get there? I have no idea....until then...in the regionals....its get your time and get out! I saw some AE 7 year FOs go to GJ when they first started ( great guys! ) ....I wish now I would have done the same, but at the time I was brainwashed by the GJ bashing BS. Flame on.....but I think some people need to look in the mirror before they start calling names....

I can't believe that it is necessary to explain this.

American Eagle was not created to whipsaw mainline pilots. AE is a collection of very old and established airlines like Simmons, Air Midwest, Metro, etc that all had their own labor contracts. No pilot group can control where they fly, what codeshare they fly, or who's routes were replaced. Just ask an old AE guy whether he even wanted the company to be purchased by AA. I personally think that codeshares suck and introduce a C scale to the industry, but that is the way it is.

It is a very different thing when a company is created solely to impose lesser working rules and rates on an existing pilot group, ie Hojets. Every individual that accepted a job with hojets kicked a TSA pilot in the balls. There are apologists that say that TSA ALPA is at fault for not accepting a concessionary contract. Ultimately, a shamed individual HAS to rationalize his actions to numb his conscience.

There is no correlation between AE pilots and what the Hojet scabs have done.

 

[lookin4better]

tell that to a furlouhged AA pilot

 

[Tarzan]

tell that to a furlouhged AA pilot

You mean one who didn't take an AE job?

 

[lookin4better]

reguardless......ALL regionals grew at the expense of mainline pilots jobs in the last few years.....the flowback agreement was part of the contract at AE....it wasnt utilized as it was designed and ticked off alot of people.

It is completely amazing that regional pilots complain about somone stealing their flying as they happily flew jets on routes that were flown by mainline....

 

[J32driver]

It is completely amazing that regional pilots complain about somone stealing their flying as they happily flew jets on routes that were flown by mainline....

So what is a regional pilot to do about flying routes that used to be flown by mainline? A pilot has no say in where the company makes them fly. And that isn't even close to an individual pilot making a decision to go work for a company that was designed from the outset as a union buster. These pilots know what they are doing and they should be ashamed of themselves. They are the leaches that are sucking the life out of this industry. THEY ENABLE UNION BUSTING!!!! How is that commendable?

Hojets and TSA has nothing to do with the situation of AA/AE/TSA. Its an unrelated argument. Not saying that the flying shouldn't belong to Eagle, just that its an unrelated argument.

 

[DannyNoonan]

reguardless......ALL regionals grew at the expense of mainline pilots jobs in the last few years.....the flowback agreement was part of the contract at AE....it wasnt utilized as it was designed and ticked off alot of people.

It is completely amazing that regional pilots complain about somone stealing their flying as they happily flew jets on routes that were flown by mainline....

yea i dont think any pax is happy in a rj seat with no padding for a 3 hour flight...colgan, commutair, and skywest (emb120) are basicaly the only regionals that are actually "regional" aka feeders from outstations for the majors

 

[Grinder10]

Regionals fly the airplanes that the mainline pilots gave up in scope.

 

[siucavflight]

tell that to a furlouhged AA pilot

You mean the furloughed AA pilot that turned down the temporary CA job offered to him at eagle paying 85K a year while waiting for AA to recall? Sometime if you dont know the facts it is better to keep your mouth shut.

 

[f/o(forever)]

It was a bad situation made worse by the TSA MEC who thought he could strong arm the situation and ended up really f-ing up, long story short.

The Go Jet pilots have nothing to be ashamed of. The tsa pilots very well could have had the flying (they voted not to take it by around 80%) if they were'nt so hard headed and brain washed.

Uh TOOL goetjet voted down a better contract then the concesionary (sp) pos that was offered to tsa. How come!? HuH? I'll tell you since you can't understand it for your self. IT SUCKED!! Any more questions?

 

[f/o(forever)]

reguardless......ALL regionals grew at the expense of mainline pilots jobs in the last few years.....the flowback agreement was part of the contract at AE....it wasnt utilized as it was designed and ticked off alot of people.

It is completely amazing that regional pilots complain about somone stealing their flying as they happily flew jets on routes that were flown by mainline....

Show me one pilot that would rather stay at the regional level because they like it! I didn't steal anyones flying, but my hard work bought your a/c and is still funding your 15 airplane airline. I came to a regional like almost every one else to build time to GO TO A MAIN LINE JOB so why would i "steal" their flying. You went to a wipsaw airline to enable tsa mgnt to screw tsa pilots! See the difference?

 

[redbook]

I have a simple question about GoJet. Why is there so much hostility towards this company? From the scab comments I have read, I am quick to assume this is a union issue but I am drawing a blank.

Ok I will play along. here you go.

ALPA President to Trans States Management: We'll Cooperate, but We're Not Backing Down
ST LOUIS, MO - The head of the union that represents pilots at St. Louis-based Trans States Airlines today told pilots at a rally at Lambert Airport that the union is taking a carrot-and-stick approach to resolving labor issues at the airline.
"I have come here today to personally issue a public challenge to your management to alter the course that they have taken in dealing with their pilots," said Capt. Duane Woerth, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, International, in remarks prepared for the rally.
"I have come to challenge them to work cooperatively with our union to help build this airline for the future. And I have come to offer to help promote new business opportunities for this airline and new job opportunities for its ALPA pilots. I am convinced that, together, we can build Trans States into a strong, solid company for decades to come," Woerth said.
"I have also come here to draw public attention to the fact that, sadly, our efforts to discuss the issues before us in cooperation with the company have, to date, met with little to no success. Using only the most tenuous thread of justification, Trans States management has sought to create an alter-ego carrier that they intend to staff with pilots not sheltered by an ALPA-bargained contract," he said.
"In response to this tactic, we have been forced to file a grievance concerning this alter-ego carrier, because management has made it clear that GoJet exists solely to evade ALPA and the TSA-ALPA agreement. The clearest proof? Management's premature and illegal attempt to install a separate union before GoJet employs any pilots or begins operations. While management's public claim that a contractual restriction makes it impossible to extend the ALPA contract to larger jets, I assure you that we can readily overcome this very common obstacle," Woerth said.
"The management at Trans States has concluded that they have some strong opportunities for growth of their company-in new sectors, in new markets, on new routes, and flying for new carriers. I applaud that vision. I salute it. That being said, I insist that the Air Line Pilots Association and the pilots we represent play our legitimate role in tangibly contributing to that growth. There is absolutely no justifiable reason to create an alter-ego carrier or a carrier that is 'walled off' from our pilots, whose sacrifices and hard work have built this company. GoJet may indeed be a viable operation moving forward-but only with our pilots in those cockpits," he said.
"Unfortunately, time is running out, because the management team at TSA has decided to do more than just stop talking to our pilots and their representatives. They have made the unfortunate - and potentially devastating - decision to crack down on our union and our union representatives here in St. Louis and elsewhere," he said.
"Standing right here with me today are two good ALPA representatives-officers who put their necks on the line for their brothers and sisters-who have recently been unjustifiably fired by TSA. The Executive Council of our International union was so outraged by these maneuvers that it recently voted to make these fired pilots financially whole until they are rightfully returned to their cockpits. That's what being union is all about. I will not tolerate attacks on, or interference with, our union representatives-pilots or employees-simply because they are members or staff of this union," Woerth said.
"The climate here at Trans States Airlines does not need to be poisoned. We can start fresh today - if management accepts our offered hand and alters their course of action. If they make that change, we can build a better airline and a better environment for the future," he said.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Show me one pilot that would rather stay at the regional level because they like it! I didn't steal anyones flying, but my hard work bought your a/c and is still funding your 15 airplane airline. I came to a regional like almost every one else to build time to GO TO A MAIN LINE JOB so why would i "steal" their flying. You went to a wipsaw airline to enable tsa mgnt to screw tsa pilots! See the difference?

Mgmt. saw the opportunity and took it. Unfortunatly the regionals will now be the career for many that originally went there to use it as a stepping stone.

Lets face it there are far fewer mainline jobs now than there were 10 years ago, the sole reason for this is the proliferation of the RJ and it's use in replacing mainline flying.

Using USAir as an example the RJ now flies most of what was flown by the MD-80's, 737's, and F-100's back in 01. The 170's are starting to eat into what was flown by the busses not too long ago. Mainline managed to keep the 190's on property and retain some of the flying, but the left seat on the 190 pays less than the left seat on the 170 does. You can use any of the legacies and get the same story as above.

Sad fact is that those mainline seats lost to the RJ expansion of the last 6 years will never be back.

Mgmt. used the RJ and the willingness of new pilots to fly for 20k a year to drag the payscales of the whole industry down. Now that mainline pay is basically the same as the regionals their job is done. Have a friend flying the 170 who just turned down a Jblue offer, Why? Because he was making more money as a 8 year 170 Captain than he could as a Jblue 190 Captain. It would have taken him something like 5 to 10 years to get back to what he is earning today.

As I said above, regionals are starting to be career airlines for many.