Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

CMR Pilots can't strike

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

FDJ2

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Posts
3,908
AP
Comair: Pilots Blocked From Striking
Wednesday February 7, 4:47 pm ET
By Lisa Cornwell, Associated Press Writer Comair: Pilots Blocked From Striking if Concessions Imposed

CINCINNATI (AP) -- A federal bankruptcy judge on Wednesday blocked Comair pilots from going on strike if the Delta Air Lines Inc. subsidiary imposes wage cuts and other concessions on them, the regional airline said.
Judge Adlai Hardin of U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York granted Comair's request to block a strike and any other job actions that would disrupt Comair's operations, Comair spokeswoman Kate Marx said. The pilots had authorized their union leaders to call a strike if the airline throws out their contract and imposes concessions.
The Air Line Pilots Association, which represents Comair's 1,500 pilots, will abide by the judge's ruling, said Paul Denke, a union spokesman.
"This decision creates an unlevel playing field in favor of management," he said.
Denke said the union would appeal the judge's ruling.
Hardin ruled Dec. 21 that Comair could impose concessions if a deal was not reached between the company and the union. The next day, Comair asked the judge to block any job action by the pilots, but later asked him to delay that ruling while talks continued in January.
The last negotiating sessions were held last week, and no new talks have been set.
Marx said the company would implement the concessions unless a tentative agreement is reached by 11:59 p.m. Friday. Even if those contract terms are imposed, Marx said Comair would continue to negotiate with pilots on the overall contract and its duration.
Comair has been seeking concessions of $15.8 million a year from the pilots as part of its restructuring plan to save $70 million annually. It has previously gotten concessions from its flight attendants and mechanics.
Denke said the ruling cannot stop pilots from leaving Comair.
"If this management team at Comair/Delta cannot take care of their employees, their employees will find someone who will," he said.
Comair, like its Atlanta-based parent, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in September 2005.
The Erlanger, Ky.-based Comair, near the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport, previously had an agreement with its pilots for $17.3 million in annual cuts over the next four years. But the deal was contingent on Comair getting a certain level of savings from its flight attendants and mechanics union. Because the flight attendants approved a deal in November to cut annual costs by $7.9 million, $1 million less than originally required, the airline had to negotiate new deals with the machinists and pilots. The machinists agreed to a modified deal, but the pilots did not.

This is another defeat for labor. This is an unlevel playing field and we all know it, the only way to level the field is to support candidates who support organized labor. Maybe, just maybe the CMR pilots will begin to support ALPA-PAC. As a group they have one of the lowest levels of participation in ALPA-PAC.
 
Complete BS, best of luck cmr people in whatever action you feel you should impose against the company and court ruling, whatever it is they deserve. What it is I am sure you will give them.
 
Will ALPA appeal and push this towards the supreme court for a final ruling on labors right to strike? Best of luck to Comair folks. Fly slooooow!!!!!!!
 
We are now at the same spot that Mesaba was. The Mesaba pilots said go ahead and impose, think we'll strike? How about if we just quit?

Mesaba didn't have the guts to do it. Will Comair management be able to watch a significant amout of pilots walk out the door? Even when regionals are having a hard time filling their interview slots.

This is going to work out very poorly for Comair management, one way or the other. They have painted themselves into a corner, and no way out is going to be pretty.

Good luck guys, this is bogus.
 
We are now at the same spot that Mesaba was. The Mesaba pilots said go ahead and impose, think we'll strike? How about if we just quit?

Mesaba didn't have the guts to do it. Will Comair management be able to watch a significant amout of pilots walk out the door? Even when regionals are having a hard time filling their interview slots.

This is going to work out very poorly for Comair management, one way or the other. They have painted themselves into a corner, and no way out is going to be pretty.

Good luck guys, this is bogus.

Your absolutely correct. The fact is, the free market is doing more than ALPA right now. Warm bodies are getting harder and harder to find at the regional level. Maybe it is time for ALPA to try some new tactics to help the free market system work it's magic..... like other professions......
 
Every other day on this board I see you people whine and moan about labor not having a fair shake and in the end, who do you vote for at the ballot box??

The anti-labor repugs.

You can't have it both ways.
 
Every other day on this board I see you people whine and moan about labor not having a fair shake and in the end, who do you vote for at the ballot box??

The anti-labor repugs.

You can't have it both ways.


Every day, I see people complain about the pay and workrules and how much this job sucks. Then I see those same people trip all over themselves for the next "dream job". After they have been at that job for awhile, they resume their bitching about their new job. Then they blame it all on the Republicans and claim that Hillary, Harry Reid, Ted Kennedy, and the gang will some how save them and make everything OK. Maybe everyone should quit taking these "crappy jobs".... Just a thought.....
 
Every other day on this board I see you people whine and moan about labor not having a fair shake and in the end, who do you vote for at the ballot box??

The anti-labor repugs.

What you're forgetting is that your taxes will go up under the Dems. Even if you get a better pay rate, you won't see it.
 
Every other day on this board I see you people whine and moan about labor not having a fair shake and in the end, who do you vote for at the ballot box??

The anti-labor repugs.

What you're forgetting is that your taxes will go up under the Dems. Even if you get a better pay rate, you won't see it.
 
This is another defeat for labor. This is an unlevel playing field and we all know it, the only way to level the field is to support candidates who support organized labor. Maybe, just maybe the CMR pilots will begin to support ALPA-PAC. As a group they have one of the lowest levels of participation in ALPA-PAC.

Surely this is why the pilots will not be allowed to strike. Had it been a company with a higher PAC contribution percentages, there is no way the judge would have blocked the strike.

Why would I want to waste any more of my money on ALPA?
 
What you're forgetting is that your taxes will go up under the Dems. Even if you get a better pay rate, you won't see it.

That's not guaranteed. Remember GHW Bush's line 'read my lips, no new taxes'? His admin did raise taxes. And he got voted out of office, no 2nd term for him, the Victor of the Gulf war, in large part because of that. His son, GW Bush, has proposed a new set of health care laws wherein you could be taxed on your health care benefits, if your health insurance rates are low (your employer pays much or all of your insurance). You could potentially have a tax increase or decrease depending on your situation.

RusHead, this thread is about CMR Pilots anyway.
 
Atlas, Polar, World, and Mesaba pilots were released under the Republican NMB. Polar and World went on to strike. Mesaba settled AFTER the 30 day cooling off period expired. The NWA mechanics struck under the Republican NMB. The Eastern stike was under GW Bush. Clinton ordered the American pilots back to work.

Blaiming this all on those evil Republicans isn't going to cut it....

By the way - I'm voting Libertarian next election because the Republicans are acting too much like Democrats.
 
Last edited:
Surely this is why the pilots will not be allowed to strike. Had it been a company with a higher PAC contribution percentages, there is no way the judge would have blocked the strike.

Why would I want to waste any more of my money on ALPA?

The reason they are not allowed to strike is because our government has had an anti-labor agenda for quite some time. The laws unfortunately are not written to favor labor and until we can get some pro labor changes to existing laws then we are going to see more cram downs where terms are imposed versus negotiated.

The point I was making with the CMR pilots pathetic participation in ALPA-PAC is that perhaps now that they are a victim of these anti-labor laws and decisions they will realize the importance of political activism and involvement and perhaps consider supporting a bi-partison Political Action Committee whose mandate is to support candidates that support labor and pilot issues.
 
What you're forgetting is that your taxes will go up under the Dems. Even if you get a better pay rate, you won't see it.

Who said anything about voting democrat or republican. It's about voting for candidates that support the collective bargaining process and collective bargaining agreements. ALPA-PAC supports both republican and democratic candidates. The criteria isn't which party they belong to, it's whether or not they support issues friendly towards labor.
 
Who said anything about voting democrat or republican. It's about voting for candidates that support the collective bargaining process and collective bargaining agreements. ALPA-PAC supports both republican and democratic candidates. The criteria isn't which party they belong to, it's whether or not they support issues friendly towards labor.

What if the "pro-labor" candidate is also for higher taxes, for more govt. regulation, against drilling for oil in the US, and soft on the war against Muslim fascists? How will that help the airlines? What good is more pay if you have to pay more in taxes and if your economy isn't strong? Europe is more labor friendly, but I don't want the US to be more like Europe.
 
Where does Comair stand on it's contract negotiations otherwise? Didn't they already agree to concessionary terms? If so, I would withdraw the offer. Never negotiate from a position of weakness. They want to play hardball, duke it out all the way.
 
Supporting the ALPA-PAC isn't going to do a dang thing. That money is for the mainline pilots, not the bottom feeders. The leaders of and the real ALPA pilots are all glad that the injuction has been ordered. They need the pilots on the lower side of the scale to stay on the lower side as to subsidize their own pay scales.

Of course, DL pilots will never publicly admit this. They will just continue to blame the Comair, ASA, and the others of taking their jobs, routes, watering down the industry, bleeding the airline of cash with fee departures, etc.... But behind closed doors the ALPA leaders have no qualms at all with the low pay for the regional pilots.

p.s.
Blaming this on Republican leadership/appointed judges is flimsy at best. As afore mentioned, just look at history. Dems love to play the class warfare of the haves and havenots. They make sure that the havenots believe that they need to be dependent on them. Seemed to work well in the USSR. :rolleyes: Has anyone actually seen a Dem in the House, Senate, White House, or Courthouse that was a havenot? Their annual charitable givings are always a telling tale.
 
What if the "pro-labor" candidate is also for higher taxes,

Then enjoy the 20% cram down.

for more govt. regulation, against drilling for oil in the US,

Yeah maybe Haliburton can get the contract for the pipeline.


and soft on the war against Muslim fascists?

How about a government that invades and occupies a sovereign muslim country on conjured up evidence? Oooppps. Bush already did that. News Flash, Saddam was not our enemy. He was a tyrant, but he was not a muslim extremist. We invaded the wrong country, now we've lost thousands of lives, tens of thousands permanently disabled and $100s of BILLIONS spent fighting the wrong enemy.

How will that help the airlines?

How much has the price of oil gone up with two oil men in charge. How has that helped the airlines.

What good is more pay if you have to pay more in taxes and if your economy isn't strong?

Enjoy that 20% management cram down, but hey, you'll be paying less taxes.

The economy was doing quite well in the 90's, how have the airlines been doing since Bush took over?

Europe is more labor friendly, but I don't want the US to be more like Europe.

No, I want the US to be more friendly to organized labor. We don't have to be like Europeans, but we don't need to have such an anti-labor government either.
 
Supporting the ALPA-PAC isn't going to do a dang thing. That money is for the mainline pilots, not the bottom feeders. The leaders of and the real ALPA pilots are all glad that the injuction has been ordered. They need the pilots on the lower side of the scale to stay on the lower side as to subsidize their own pay scales.

Of course, DL pilots will never publicly admit this. They will just continue to blame the Comair, ASA, and the others of taking their jobs, routes, watering down the industry, bleeding the airline of cash with fee departures, etc.... But behind closed doors the ALPA leaders have no qualms at all with the low pay for the regional pilots.

p.s.
Blaming this on Republican leadership/appointed judges is flimsy at best. As afore mentioned, just look at history. Dems love to play the class warfare of the haves and havenots. They make sure that the havenots believe that they need to be dependent on them. Seemed to work well in the USSR. :rolleyes: Has anyone actually seen a Dem in the House, Senate, White House, or Courthouse that was a havenot? Their annual charitable givings are always a telling tale.


Well said Dodge. Have you seen Sen. John Edwards new house? It's only 28,200 square feet. I'm sure he cares about the little guy.

Edwards Home County's Largest

The 28,200-square-foot home also Orange County's most valuable

By Don Carrington


January 26, 2007
screen_45b96f4556a25.jpg

[FONT=verdana, san-serif]CJ photo by Don Carrington[/FONT]
The 28,200-square-foot Edwards home in Orange County is expected to be valued at more than $6 million.

RALEIGH — Presidential candidate John Edwards and his family recently moved into what county tax officials say is the most valuable home in Orange County. The house, which includes a recreational building attached to the main living quarters, also is probably the largest in the county.

“The Edwardses’ residential property will likely have the highest tax value in the county,” Orange County Tax Assessor John Smith told Carolina Journal. He estimated that the tax value will exceed $6 million when the facility is completed.

The rambling structure sits in the middle of a 102-acre estate on Old Greensboro Road west of Chapel Hill. The heavily wooded site and winding driveway ensure that the home is not visible from the road. “No Trespassing” signs discourage passersby from venturing past the gate.

Don Knight, Orange County building plans examiner, told CJ that, including the recreational building, the Edwardses’ home would be one of the largest in Orange County.

Knight approved the building plans that showed the Edwards home totaling 28,200 square feet of connected space. The main house is 10,400 square feet and has two garages. The recreation building, a red, barn-like building containing 15,600 square feet, is connected to the house by a closed-in and roofed structure of varying widths and elevations that totals 2,200 square feet.

The main house is all on one level except for a 600-square-foot bedroom and bath area above the guest garage.

The recreation building contains a basketball court, a squash court, two stages, a bedroom, kitchen, bathrooms, swimming pool, a four-story tower, and a room designated “John’s Lounge.”

Edwards was the Democratic candidate for vice president in 2004 and a former N.C. senator.

Thursday afternoon, the Edwards for President press office was unable to provide information on any additional buildings planned for the estate.

Don Carrington is executive editor of Carolina Journal.

Click here to view a larger version (735k) of house photo. To obtain a high-resolution version (4.7M) for use in print, email request to Don Carrington at Carolina Journal.
 
Joe Merchant didn't think in that post, anyway. He just listened to Rush, and Ann, and the other neo-cons, and regurgitated a bunch of alarmist non-sense.
 
Is that a barn. I doubt too many attorneys could even turn off a tractor. "I turned the key off, but it's still running!?!?!:laugh:
 
Joe Merchant didn't think in that post, anyway. He just listened to Rush, and Ann, and the other neo-cons, and regurgitated a bunch of alarmist non-sense.

No, I'm more of a Neal Boortz - Church of the Painful Truth, kinda guy. Sorry, but I view government as a hinderance, not a solution. The Republicans are acting more and more like Democrats every day.
 
Last edited:
Is that a barn. I doubt too many attorneys could even turn off a tractor. "I turned the key off, but it's still running!?!?!:laugh:

How many trees do you figure he cut down? Wonder what Greenpeace and Al Gore think of all those trees being cut down.......
 
Comair Pilots Can't Strike.......for how long???

Quote: "Judge Adlai Hardin of U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York granted Comair's request to block a strike and any other job actions that would disrupt Comair's operations."

.......for how long?

Did the judge rule that Comair pilots can never again go on strike? No! The judge simply ruled that Comair pilots cannot engage in a strike or other job action WHILE COMAIR IS UNDER THE PROTECTION(S) OF THE BANKRUPTCY COURT. After the bankruptcy is discharged, Comair will no longer be protected/subjected to the bankruptcy court.........AND NEITHER WILL THE PILOT GROUP!

If Comair emerges from bankrupcty protections on March 15th, I think March 16th would be a lovely day for the pilot group to go on strike.

It occurs to me that Comair/Delta management has already considered this reality. That's why management hasn't simply imposed the new payscales and said "live with it". Management cannot allow the bankruptcy to discharge BEFORE they have a new collective bargaining agreement in place with ALL LABOR GROUPS. That's why management continues to pull heavy-handed tactics.....and THEN NEGOTIATE. They know that they can impose the new payscales/work rules and there's nothing the pilots can legally do about it......until after the bankruptcy is discharged.

Let Comair management win this battle. Then, after Comair emerges from bankruptcy protection the pilot group can win the war. And maybe, purely by coincidence, ASA will have a "job action" at about the same time, (organized or otherwise).

Unity is a beautiful thing.
 
Last edited:
Hmm... Isn't Kerry married to that Heinz chick? Wonder where all that money came from.

News flash: who the FU*K cares??!! It's not about being rich or poor, upper class or middle class; it's about having the BA*LS to walk away from your job if they lower the wage to a point you can match elsewhere.

Even if you can't match it, can you come close? Is it worth your SELF-ESTEEM to simply say "screw you, I don't want to work for a company like this", and leave?

I know most of the CA's there aren't ballsy enough to do this, but the 1st and 2nd year F/O's might be. With all the OTHER regionals hiring, you're a shoe-in somewhere else, so why not vote with your feet since you are now enjoined from striking?

Yeah, it creates a biased playing field. Yeah it sucks.

What are you going to do about it?
 
you got kerry and edwards messed up. Edwards is the ambulance chaser; kerry married his loot. both are robbers
 
Maybe even unions should practice what they preach????

[Dan Alban, Friday February 10, 2006 at 10:41am]
The Appalling Labor Practices of...UNIONS???



This hilarious Detroit News article reveals that unions have been hiring the homeless - at minimum wage and without health care benefits - to picket at non-union job sites. Oh, the humanity! Oh, the hypocrisy!

In Washington, Baltimore, Atlanta and elsewhere in the country, union organizers are scouring shelters and recruiting homeless people to staff their picket lines, paying just above minimum wage and failing to provide health benefits.

The national carpenters' union, which broke from the AFL-CIO four years ago in a bitter dispute over organizing strategies and other issues, is hiring homeless people to stage noisy protests at nonunion construction sites.

"We're giving jobs to people who didn't have jobs, people who in some cases couldn't secure work," said George Eisner, head of the union's mid-Atlantic regional council in Baltimore.


God, I love these quotes. So, um, how exactly is this different from the employees at the non-union construction site that you're protesting? I wonder if these union schmucks realize the extent to which their defense of this practice undermines the whole purpose of unions.

Neil Bernstein, a law professor at Washington University in St. Louis who specializes in labor and employment law, said unions that use such a tactic are guilty of practicing a double standard.

"They're basically doing what they're criticizing the employers for doing — getting the cheapest people to do the job," he said.


What, unions not actually protecting the rights of their workers? Acting hypocritically? Igoring pro-labor ideology when it's inconvenient? I'm shocked, shocked.

"The fact that the people demonstrating were not members of the union doesn't make much difference," Sweeney said. "What matters is that the carpenters working on the building had no health care and no pension."

When it was noted that the homeless pickets also had no benefits, Sweeney responded: "Our hope is that those workers — that all workers — would have health benefits, but that is a bigger issue."


Gee, that's interesting. So all you have to do to make the union happy is HOPE that your workers would have health benefits? You don't have to actually do anything about it as an employer? I'm sure big business will be interested to hear this...

Sweeney expressed the hope that the homeless protesters "may work themselves into a full-time job where they would get benefits."

Yes, exactly! But then that kinda ruins the whole point of having unions, now doesn't it Johnny boy? (Ok, so it actually doesn't undermine the real purpose of having unions - consolidating power for and lining the pockets of union bigwigs & other...ahem...associates, and "progressive" political organization.)

A demonstrator in Washington, Nicey Howards, said the temporary protesters earn $8 an hour — just a dollar above the legal minimum wage in Washington — with no benefits. While she felt the job wasn't ideal, Howards was glad she could earn a little money while looking for something better.

Each week, Howards said, she works 20 hours, the maximum time allowed by the carpenters' union, bringing home $160.

The union organizers allow the hired protesters to take two-minute breaks, Howards said, but dock their pay for the time off.


God, someone needs to start a union for these people to save them from the horribly despotic...um...er...unions that are working them to the bone in sweatshop-like conditions!
 
In his Order, Judge Hardin wrote that if the 2nd Court of Appeals rules in favor of the NWA Flight Attendants, his injunction will be lifted.
 
Can this Judges decision be appealled the same as any other ruling? Maybe someone else wouldn't see it his way. I read these companies go shopping for the most favorable bankrupcy courts- Can't the pilot group shop for a favorable appeals court? Any lawyers that can weigh in on this? I'm just curious.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom