any ASA neg. update????

[boknowsASA]

Am I not mistaken, or did the last connection mention that the CNC briefly discussed scope and profit sharing with the company. Also, has our CNC made mention of the mediators intentions regarding future sessions, or are we in a holding pattern in this thing? (again)

Thanks for the info- haven't been able to pull up the connection yet- all I have is heresay from another source.

NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE​

February 6, 2007
The session began with the Association reviewing management’s second
proposal made yesterday. Because of the lack of movement on
management’s second proposal, there was very little the Association could
work with. The Association did have some discussions with management
about possible solutions to our scope issues and we also questioned them
about their last proposal on profit sharing. It was reiterated once again
that we desire to have our money in pay rates not profit sharing. After the
discussions, we delivered a document to the mediator that stated our
current position.
As noted yesterday we have Section 5: Traveling Expenses, Section 12:
Hours of Service and Section 30: Duration ready for tentative agreement.
The committees spent some of the day working on the final copies of these
sections.
There are approximately 13 issues remaining. The issues are in scope, pay
rates, retro pay, duty rigs, line check pilot override rate, and 401(k)
Company matching contributions.
On the MEC crew room website and the updated public MEC Negotiations
Facts website (​

http://asanegotiations.alpa.org) you will find a rate chart
that displays our current pay rates - the Association’s proposal and
management’s proposal, SkyWest, Chautauqua, Express Jet, and American
Eagle pay rates. One can easily see how far behind the industry
management’s last offer is on the CR2. Keep in mind the rates presented
on the table are currently in effect at such carriers.
To date management, has rejected our retro pay proposal.
At the conclusion of this week’s sessions, the mediator adjourned talks and
stated that he would report to the Board​

 

[VeeOne]

Thanks BO.

 

[ohplease!]

NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE​

February 6, 2007
The session began with the Association reviewing management’s second
proposal made yesterday. Because of the lack of movement on
management’s second proposal, there was very little the Association could
work with. The Association did have some discussions with management
about possible solutions to our scope issues and we also questioned them
about their last proposal on profit sharing. It was reiterated once again
that we desire to have our money in pay rates not profit sharing. After the
discussions, we delivered a document to the mediator that stated our
current position.
As noted yesterday we have Section 5: Traveling Expenses, Section 12:
Hours of Service and Section 30: Duration ready for tentative agreement.
The committees spent some of the day working on the final copies of these
sections.
There are approximately 13 issues remaining. The issues are in scope, pay
rates, retro pay, duty rigs, line check pilot override rate, and 401(k)
Company matching contributions.
On the MEC crew room website and the updated public MEC Negotiations
Facts website (​

http://asanegotiations.alpa.org) you will find a rate chart
that displays our current pay rates - the Association’s proposal and
management’s proposal, SkyWest, Chautauqua, Express Jet, and American
Eagle pay rates. One can easily see how far behind the industry
management’s last offer is on the CR2. Keep in mind the rates presented
on the table are currently in effect at such carriers.
To date management, has rejected our retro pay proposal.
At the conclusion of this week’s sessions, the mediator adjourned talks and
stated that he would report to the Board​

Still hung up on the idea that payrates are the only way to increase our pay. Thats too bad. If the CNC is going to continue to be THAT near sighted, I'll have to assume that we'll never finish this contract and at some point down the raod we'll be joining Comair on the out of work line.

If alpa doesn't find a way to get to some common ground on pay, there's no way ASA is going to budge.

BOTH SIDES are stalling. BOTH sides are being unreasonable. Its a "give and take" here folks. In the long run, who is feeling the effects? I'll answer it for you, we the pilots are...lost wages, lost upgrades, lost QOL, etc. etc.

 

[PCL_128]

I wouldn't hesitate to say that the Pinnacle rates and Mesa rates will still be less than what we have at ASA now.

I wouldn't bet on that, if I was you.

 

[ohplease!]

I wouldn't bet on that, if I was you.

I would.

 

[PCL_128]

Still hung up on the idea that payrates are the only way to increase our pay. Thats too bad. If the CNC is going to continue to be THAT near sighted, I'll have to assume that we'll never finish this contract and at some point down the raod we'll be joining Comair on the out of work line.

There are many ways to increase W2 wages, but profit sharing isn't a good one. Profits are too easy to manipulate. Work rules and payrates are the ways to increase wages. Profit sharing should just be icing on the cake.

 

[HoserASA]

There are many ways to increase W2 wages, but profit sharing isn't a good one. Profits are too easy to manipulate. Work rules and payrates are the ways to increase wages. Profit sharing should just be icing on the cake.

And the majority here has opted for pay increases, duty rigs, and no to profit sharing.

Hoser

 

[ohplease!]

There are many ways to increase W2 wages, but profit sharing isn't a good one. Profits are too easy to manipulate. Work rules and payrates are the ways to increase wages. Profit sharing should just be icing on the cake.

exactly what I've argued all along.

 

[ohplease!]

And the majority here has opted for pay increases, duty rigs, and no to profit sharing.

Hoser

pay increases sure but, to try and set some new "higher plane" at this time in this industry is foolish. IMO.

 

[HoserASA]

pay increases sure but, to try and set some new "higher plane" at this time in this industry is foolish. IMO.

Agreed, but at least equal to our peers. From the pay comparison chart
it appears we're ok on the 700, but way behind on the 200. JB says we're ok on the ATR. And I still want full retor, but that's me.

Hoser

 

[ohplease!]

Agreed, but at least equal to our peers. From the pay comparison chart
it appears we're ok on the 700, but way behind on the 200. JB says we're ok on the ATR. And I still want full retor, but that's me.

Hoser

If we kept our 70 rates + a little more, got Skywest rates on the 50's, trip/duty rigs, and better 401k + the same profit sharing Skywest currently gets....I'd be pretty happy. With 3 year duration, the industry SHOULD be much improved by that time and hopefully we could manage one list....that would be the time to go for greatly increased rates.

I don't believe full retro is attainable (although it is a great bargaining chip) and I'm not sure many of us would make out very well with where I think pay rates would have to end up (small pay rate increase = very little retro). However, a signing bonus of say some % of our w2's back to amendable date would profit all of us on a "desrving" basis (been here the whole time = more $ based on you higher pay rate) and it would help serve as a "punishment" for dragging things out 5 years.

 

[VeeOne]

I was just thinking the same thing- if the 700 rates were utilized that many are talking about, many could come out ahead of the game regarding a signing bonus (since the -200 rates have become a major focus now). We deserve something- signing bonus or retro.....I just want some money.

 

[ASAFLY2]

I kinda feel that it is unrealistic to think that we can get better pay rates as a substitute for profit sharing. The company will never give us higher pay rates than Skywest pilots. I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss the profit sharing idea. That being said, I would never vote for the Performance Plus crap. I would want the same thing the Skywest pilots get. Mgmt has never offered this.

 

[ASAFLY2]

BTW, Does anyone have any idea what the average Skywest Captain gets per year with their Profit Sharing plan vs. what our pilots would get with Performace Plus?

 

[ohplease!]

I kinda feel that it is unrealistic to think that we can get better pay rates as a substitute for profit sharing. The company will never give us higher pay rates than Skywest pilots. I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss the profit sharing idea. That being said, I would never vote for the Performance Plus crap. I would want the same thing the Skywest pilots get. Mgmt has never offered this.

Are you sure?

 

[Old Crow]

You people need to get your head out of the sand. Employees are paid a fair salary for a required job based on industry averages and standards. Companies offer rewards to value employees and retain their wisdom of the business through profit sharing, bonuses, stock options, etc...Yes it does increase your W2, but remember the movie Christmas Vacation and the plans for the back yard pool???

Pay rate, work rules, duty rigs are the ways we must establish an industry standard.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Pay rate, work rules, duty rigs are the ways we must establish an industry standard.

Without a doubt. Do you trust ASA management to pay you a fairly with a profit sharing type scheme? You are guaranteed nothing!

 

[atlcrjdriver]

From the latest updates, the Co proposal for the CR7 and ATR are at, if not above, industry standard. The rate for CR2 cpt does need to come up to at least the same as SKW.

PBS is on the way and is a large financial saving to the company through greater productivity. Why not offer to accept the Co CR7/ATR rates with match SKW CR2 cpt rate with ALPA Proposed trip/duty rigs in exchange for PBS.

Once these rates are settled, then a signing bonus can be worked out.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

I think that is reasonable.

 

[ASAFLY2]

Are you sure?

As far as I know that is correct.
Jerry Atkin agreed in our crew lounge that we had been offered Performance Plus instead of the skywest plan. Also the latest company proposal list Performance Plus as the PS plan. Some of pur pilots questioned him on this, and he said he would look into it

 

[JoeMerchant]

Only six month to a year ago did scope become your big issue, lucky for you and all of us, our/your CNC is demanding scope that means something.

Incorrect! Job security has always been priority number 1 for me. That is why I supported the ASA and CMR "OneALPA" in 2000. Payrates mean nothing without the aircraft. The best regional contracts belonged to ALG/PDT, ACA, CMR, CCAir, Mesaba, AirWisc, and XJT. All of these carriers have lost out - some in a big way.

I remember you saying that we should just live to fight another day, now your ready to vote no?

Medeco

I still believe that. I'm not interested in becoming the next poster child for an RFP loser. Without a single list, I will vote NO - however the TA will still pass because only about 20-30% will even bother to read the scope section. Even less will be concerned about a single list. I don't like it, but that is a reality....

 

[JettBoii]

Any truth to only 10 or 11 new hires showing up out of a class 40; those numbers being approximate of course.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I still believe that. I'm not interested in becoming the next poster child for an RFP loser. Without a single list, I will vote NO - however the TA will still pass because only about 20-30% will even bother to read the scope section. Even less will be concerned about a single list. I don't like it, but that is a reality....

Without a good scope section it is OUR JOB to inform the ASA pilots and do everything we can to rally a "NO" vote.

I'm not happy with the pay rates, but without scope, pay does not matter. Your priorities are correct.

 

[SiuDude]

Any truth to only 10 or 11 new hires showing up out of a class 40; those numbers being approximate of course.

I don't know but the maximum class size is 20-22.

 

[John Pennekamp]

on this chart I took Horizon out and put AA Eagle in it's place. I agree with Joe that Horizon has an awesome deal but we should not compare them with us.

------Eagle ---ALPA Pro* --ASA pro*----Comair**---Mesa--Republic***
years --rate---- rate--------rate---------rate--------rate---rate
18------98----- 106---------104---------118---------87----101
17 -----97 -----103---------101---------115---------86-----99
16 -----96 -----100----------98---------112---------85-----96
15 -----94 ------97----------95---------108---------83-----94
14 -----92 ------94----------92---------105---------81-----91
13 -----89 ------91----------89---------102---------78-----88
12 -----87 ------88----------87----------99---------76-----86
11 -----84 ------86----------84----------96---------74-----83
10 -----82 ------83----------81----------93---------72-----80
09 -----79 ------80----------78----------90---------70-----78
08 -----77 ------77----------75----------86---------68-----76
07 -----75 ------74----------73----------83---------66-----73
06 -----73 ------72----------71----------81---------64-----71
05 -----71 ------70----------69----------78---------62-----69
04 -----69 ------68----------67----------76---------60-----67
03 -----67 ------66----------65----------74---------58-----65
02 -----65 ------64----------63----------72---------57-----61
01 -----63 ------62----------61----------69---------55-----57

* on both ALPA and the Company proposal I rounded up or down to the next dollar.

** With Comair in BK I don't know what will happen but as far as I know this is still their current Capt rate for the 700.

*** Republic was based on the EMB-170 same seat size.

Mesa also tops out at $90 at 20yrs.

Straight from the ASA ALPA CNC chairman, ALPA excluded the top (horizon) and bottom (mesa) so as not to skew the results. ASA (management) excluded horizon, but not mesa.

 

[John Pennekamp]

PBS is on the way and is a large financial saving to the company through greater productivity. Why not offer to accept the Co CR7/ATR rates with match SKW CR2 cpt rate with ALPA Proposed trip/duty rigs in exchange for PBS.

I must have missed that in the update. Source?

Last I talked to Newie, the MEC was not considering PBS, by demand of our pilot group via the polling.

 

[pilotnbr1]

Increased payrates are something we must have but much more money is to be made with good trip and duty rigs along with a good 401k match. If accepting PBS and receiving profit sharing is what the company is demanding lets implement that with some good contract language to protect us. Maybe then we can all get on with life and get this contract done.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

I must have missed that in the update. Source?

Last I talked to Newie, the MEC was not considering PBS, by demand of our pilot group via the polling.

The CNC would be foolish not to use PBS as a bargaining chip as this is a LARGE cash incentive to the company.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The CNC would be foolish not to use PBS as a bargaining chip as this is a LARGE cash incentive to the company.

The CNC would also be foolish to pursue something the pilots have said over and over we don't want! You don't whip out a gun unless you plan to use it, and you don't negotiate for things you don't really want.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

JP, I may not want PBS either yet the company is determined to get it on property and for good reason. What we want is higher base salary and true profit sharing. Neither side will be 100% happy but we meet in the middle.