Rough times at United

[jtmpilot]

TIP is for good service and per-diem is for food and entertainment, not required to tip anyone if the service is crap, and not tipping is the only way to get that message across

 

[bustinmins]

- The company requires me to take a van to the hotel
- they company require me to stay at this hotel
- the company makes the arrangements with the hotels (for the cheapest deals probably)
- the company demands what times I have to rest/sleep
- the company arranges for transportation
- I agreed with my company to my employment terms which do NOT include
tipping the van drivers 8 -10 times pr week (assuming 4-5 overnights).

- the van driver is employed by the hotel or some other transportation service
- the van driver agreed to his employment terms
- like the previous post said. It should not be the flight crew but the company that should make sure the van driver is paid properly and not
put that extra "requirement" on the crew.

Ok - I'm open for attacks now......

The only thing missing in your comment is the requirement for him to give up 35% of his earnings, add five years to his expected tenure and then give him 50% of his B-fund all while asking him to work an extra four hours per day.

Good thing you are on the side of labor my friend - you certainly could be a very strong asset to management.

 

[bustinmins]

The key to this whole issue is longer layovers, more pay and an 8-hour drinking rule! Suddenly things become more tolerable. Hmm - who would have known?

XYV

 

[fareview]

I didn't "join" an airline. I was hired by a successful company with great pay/benefits. So, the fact that less than 1% of the pilots at Fedex have shown they have no principles means I should blow off that opportunity? Yeah, I guess the other 4862 pilots who didn't scab should quit on principle.

Nobody is suggesting that the 4500+ fdx pilots should quit OR that you should not have accepted being "hired" at the aforementioned...its just that your high-handedness reveals that you were faced with a choice of not going to FDX out of honorable principle (whether there is one scab or 100...its still a company that has knowingly employed them) OR accepeting the position because of the financial and career ramifications had you not...you chose the dollar as we all would have...just relax on the pontification and preaching...why don't cha...

fv

 

[Sluggo_63]

What do you mean you don't tip, Mr. Pink?

I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

[Weasil]

Why tip the driver if you have to wait on the curb for 20-30 min on an 8hr overnight? Tipping should be for going "above and beyond" your normal duties.
If the van is waiting and the driver puts you bags in the back, they get a tip. If we wait for the driver to show up, or sits in the van while you load your own bags, no tip. If they track your flight on the internet to determine you arrival time, they might get an extra tip for being smart.

AMEN!

 

[Spectre]

WTF is your problem? I am a ball to work with as long as you're not a scab. All I did was bring up the possibility that the UAL pilot, who was the subject of this first post in this thread, might have been a scab. In my experience there, most of the pilots who pulled that kind of crap or some other questionable behavior, ended up being on the scab list. The guy who started the thread wasn't looking to generate a "should we tip or not" discussion. Seemed to me he wanted to throw an indictment toward all UAL pilots just because one idiot stiffed the van driver.

So, the real problem is you have a problem with "prior military fighter pilots". What are you, another frustrated FAIP with a bad attitude? Should have done a little better at UPT - that ain't my fault, Napoleon.

BTW - "threads" are the groups of "posts" on FI. This one is titled "Rough times at United". So, it took 20 "posts" for me to turn the "thread" toward scabs. When you make a statement like, “I'll bet you are a ball to work with” - and you choose to shorten it with a contraction, the "you" and the "are" go together to make "you're" - not "your".

Have a nice day, little man.

With all of these nice union tactics...Threats of slashing tires, checking one's scab lists etc, I think JetBlue is a great place to work without a union! BTW, why don't you take your posts to the "Cargo" section and save us all from reading your hateful threads. YOU'RE not having a nice day.

Tipping is for good, prompt service. Give up that buck when it's deserved and tip extra on holidays.

 

[jtmpilot]

WTF??? over what airline doesnt have a scab working at it???? Im suppose to not work anywhere a scab is employed?? CAL would be liquidated tomorrow if that was the case... they are everywhere and im sure all of them have great reasons for crossing the line, fact is they crossed, no reason is a good reason to buddy F--- your brothers.... take a second mortgage, use cash advances on credit cards... live within your means... refi and cash out on the house... we all have means to make ends meet when faced with adversity, there is no excuse!!!!! period for crossing a line!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

Wow, we'll go to our overnight and drink $20 worth of beer, maybe more and maybe less, but $1 each way for maybe 5 trips a month is $10!!! How cheap have we all become? Give the van driver that danm dollar!

 

[jtmpilot]

like all other people who earn a living with TIPS..... earn it and ill give it!!!! period!!!!

 

[Fox-Tree]

I think JetBlue is a great place to work without a union!

Kumbahyah...............Kumbahyah...............

Just one big happy family.

I hope it works out for you. Talk to me when you get your first unilaterally implemented pay cut or work rule change. Unions have some serious warts and issues, no doubt. Eventually (unfortunately), you'll see they are a necessary evil.

 

[SpeedBird]

Fox-Tree, as a former FAIP, I would have had to rank lower in my class to get an F-15 to Bitburg or Camp New Amsterdam (Yes... I just dated myself!).

 

[BiffF15]

Having worked for tips (at 2.01 per hour plus tips) I think there is nothing wrong with not tipping (for poor service). However, there are some jobs where tipping is a large or the largest portion of someone's income. The people using that service (van driver, waitress, bell hop, skycap) should tip based on quality of service and customs (the latter vary by country). To do otherwise is to identify yourself in a negative light, ask that your luggage be lost, your food/drink to be spit on/in, your door key to not work, and for you to be late to the airport and dropped off at the wrong spot.

 

[xjhawk]

where is thismysterious scab list?

 

[AlbieF15]

I look at tipping like this...

First--I'm blessed by God with a great job, financial security, and a job that I love. So--if I cannot be generous I am squandering the gifts I've been provided.

If a guy/gal does a great job, he gets a tip and a big thanks.

If a guy/gal gives is late, slow, or behind, he/she gets a big tip, a thanks, and a silent prayer. I figure their day is worse than mine. Their job is certainly one I would never want...even if they are making 100 bucks a day in tips...

If they are rude, disrespectful, or late.....he/she gets a tip...and a request to have a better day, and remember we need their help. I also tell them how much we DO appreciate it when the CAN help us out...

So--say thanks or "pay it forward..."...life is too short to be cheap and miserable. If you can hold a second class medical you got less problems than a hell of a lot of folks, and if your company ain't treatin' you right then you can use this as a chance to show how YOU think they should be treated.

Just my take...but I'll bet I've gotten those dollars I've given out back many times over by just trying to be a positive force. I have a great job, and my situation may be different than yours--but a generous spirit always seems to come back around.

Read Matthew Chapter 18 vs 22-35. Reread verse 33 a few times. We all gotta chart our own course, but that is what I remember when I'm faced with a tip situation....

 

[skiandsurf]

I look at tipping like this...

First--I'm blessed by God with a great job, financial security, and a job that I love. So--if I cannot be generous I am squandering the gifts I've been provided.

Obviously not an airline pilot.

But I do have an off beat tipping question. I am getting some furniture delivered next week. A couch and a bed. They are supposed to put the bed together...............Do I tip them for their service???? (an honest question).

 

[737 Pylt]

Obviously not an airline pilot.

But I do have an off beat tipping question. I am getting some furniture delivered next week. A couch and a bed. They are supposed to put the bed together...............Do I tip them for their service???? (an honest question).

I had the same thing happen when we moved into our house about 5 yrs ago. 3 guys assembled our furniture (complete bedroom set), and it was a lot to do. I gave them each a $20. I'd say for a couch and bed, depending on the amount of time, at least a $5 spot to a $10 spot.

737

 

[Fox-Tree]

where is thismysterious scab list?

The universal US list is in .pdf format on my computer and hundreds of other pilot's computers too. It gets passed around by those who care. If I thought I could post it, I would but I'm sure that's not allowed. The UAL scab list was provided to me there when I got hired.

 

[Spectre]

The universal US list is in .pdf format on my computer and hundreds of other pilot's computers too. It gets passed around by those who care. If I thought I could post it, I would but I'm sure that's not allowed. The UAL scab list was provided to me there when I got hired.

I let anyone ride on our jumpseats at JetBlue. Even people like you would get a ride because I don't care about your present or past history, what uniform you wear, or what union you do or do not belong to. I do know you are just trying to get to work or back home and I'm glad to help out. I guess if a union gets on the JetBlue property, we'll all be carrying the "list" and denying jumpseats? Yeah, sign us up now!!!

I'm not sure how one defines a SCAB. It's in the dictionary, but I think it has something to do with wounds. However, the most popular "union" definition is someone who crosses a picket line to go to work while others are on strike or doing some sort of work stoppage. This would break your brotherhood, your solidarity and thus hurt your overall effectiveness of getting better compensation, benefits, or work rules. Using this definition, you should add all of your ALPA members who voted to break your collective agreements which resulted in furloughs, lost pensions, lost pay, and lost benefits. As an observation, this has hurt unions more than any one or two pilots who crossed a picket line...

 

[Fox-Tree]

I let anyone ride on our jumpseats at JetBlue. Even people like you would get a ride because I don't care about your present or past history, what uniform you wear, or what union you do or do not belong to. I do know you are just trying to get to work or back home and I'm glad to help out. I guess if a union gets on the JetBlue property, we'll all be carrying the "list" and denying jumpseats? Yeah, sign us up now!!!

I'm not sure how one defines a SCAB. It's in the dictionary, but I think it has something to do with wounds. However, the most popular "union" definition is someone who crosses a picket line to go to work while others are on strike or doing some sort of work stoppage. This would break your brotherhood, your solidarity and thus hurt your overall effectiveness of getting better compensation, benefits, or work rules. Using this definition, you should add all of your ALPA members who voted to break your collective agreements which resulted in furloughs, lost pensions, lost pay, and lost benefits. As an observation, this has hurt unions more than any one or two pilots who crossed a picket line...

Your lack of knowledge in this area is laughable. You have no union so, I guess that's okay.

A scab definition is pretty cut and dry. You can try to include questionable decisions and actions by those voting in a union but you'd be wrong. The majority vote of a union may not be popular with those in the minority, but those are the breaks. There is no way you can equate an attempt on the part of union members to minimize damage to their contract during the 9-11 fall-out to being a scab.

A scab is someone who crosses a legal picket line and attempts to take over the jobs of those out on a legal strike. They are scum. We're also talking about a lot more than "one or two pilots". There are hundreds at UAL and CAL that still work there. There are former Eastern scabs throughout the industry. Some crossed because they had what they thought was a good reason. There were some who were already pilots at the airline and who thought they were "saving the airline" or just couldn't do without the $$. During the UAL strike, others (the worst scum) came from other airlines, already qualified in UAL aircraft, knowing they were being hired as strike-breakers. There was no way UAL would have hired them under normal conditions. Most had "issues" and skeletons that never would have allowed them to be hired under normal conditions. They were promised super seniority and knew if they were successful, they would have stripped the striking UAL pilots of their jobs. They knew the score and dove in head first.

You can pass judgment from your sheltered perspective if you want. Until you've watched such scum attempt to take your job and your family's future from you, maybe you need to leave judgment on this issue to those who've been in the battle (or has at least those who have taken the time to educate themselves on the history of this issue).

 

[Remington]

Do you think when United starts hiring they will say, "Welcome to United, you just became a millionaire.?"

 

[BiffF15]

Your lack of knowledge in this area is laughable. You have no union so, I guess that's okay.

A scab definition is pretty cut and dry. You can try to include questionable decisions and actions by those voting in a union but you'd be wrong. The majority vote of a union may not be popular with those in the minority, but those are the breaks. There is no way you can equate an attempt on the part of union members to minimize damage to their contract during the 9-11 fall-out to being a scab.

A scab is someone who crosses a legal picket line and attempts to take over the jobs of those out on a legal strike. They are scum. We're also talking about a lot more than "one or two pilots". There are hundreds at UAL and CAL that still work there. There are former Eastern scabs throughout the industry. Some crossed because they had what they thought was a good reason. There were some who were already pilots at the airline and who thought they were "saving the airline" or just couldn't do without the $$. During the UAL strike, others (the worst scum) came from other airlines, already qualified in UAL aircraft, knowing they were being hired as strike-breakers. There was no way UAL would have hired them under normal conditions. Most had "issues" and skeletons that never would have allowed them to be hired under normal conditions. They were promised super seniority and knew if they were successful, they would have stripped the striking UAL pilots of their jobs. They knew the score and dove in head first.

You can pass judgment from your sheltered perspective if you want. Until you've watched such scum attempt to take your job and your family's future from you, maybe you need to leave judgment on this issue to those who've been in the battle (or has at least those who have taken the time to educate themselves on the history of this issue).

Well put Fox-Tree. When you come out of the military you honestly don't understand all the background. However, each airline has it's own education machine. Also exposure to those individuals will clarify a lot of things to those who have doubts.

 

[ualdriver]

I'm not sure how one defines a SCAB. It's in the dictionary, but I think it has something to do with wounds. However, the most popular "union" definition is someone who crosses a picket line to go to work while others are on strike or doing some sort of work stoppage. This would break your brotherhood, your solidarity and thus hurt your overall effectiveness of getting better compensation, benefits, or work rules. Using this definition, you should add all of your ALPA members who voted to break your collective agreements which resulted in furloughs, lost pensions, lost pay, and lost benefits. As an observation, this has hurt unions more than any one or two pilots who crossed a picket line...

Unfortunately, Spectre, as union members we have to pick our battles, and again, unfortunately it was very apparent that the legacy carriers would not be able to compete with the JetBlues (and others) of the world when such carriers were MASSIVELY undercutting legacy pay and work rules in order to help gain market share and grow. With labor costs such a large percentage of an airlines total costs, it practically becomes impossible to compete with growing LCC's with really low pay and few if any work rules, never mind no pensions. So the unions at the legacies had a choice: either match the new "low bar" set by carriers such as JetBlue, or "win" and go out of business simply because we would continue to be undercut by the new breed of LCC's that were coming into being. That's business, and unfortunately no matter how powerful a union is, it can't overcome the forces of the marketplace. That's not scabbing, that's adjusting our pay and workrules DOWN to yours so that we can compete.

Further, Spectre, you had better HOPE that carriers such as Allegiant, Virgin, Skybus, etc., don't become the "new new breed" of LCC's that helped broke the back of legacy pay and work rules. The rates at those airlines would make your E190 pilots blush. If they grow and become credible competitors in our marketplace, we'll all be 80K/year Captains. Then we'll be seeing the JetBlue guys (and everyone else, for that matter) meet your ridiculous definition of "scab."

 

[crazee8]

what's the consensus on tipping maids?

Here's my consensus: I always leave a couple bucks a day if I'm staying in the room more than one day (training, vacation, etc.).

It's to assure good behavior around my stuff when it's left in there all by itself.

One maid was so happy with my daily cash treat, that she made a swan out of towels and few other interesting towel creations that decorated my room.

Good karma I guess - and hopefully no toilet scrubbing with my toothbrush.



-----Oh, I'm sorry, did I interupt the scab discussion? I'm crushed.

 

[embdrvr]

-----Oh, I'm sorry, did I interupt the scab discussion? I'm crushed.

I wonder how many other threads Foxtree has hijacked into a pathological anti-scab rant. Don't get me wrong. I'm no friend of scabs but to hypothesize that some non tipping UAL pilot is part of the class of 85 is over the top.

Sounds like someone has a need for that counselling program that's included in the benefits package.

 

[Fox-Tree]

I wonder how many other threads Foxtree has hijacked into a pathological anti-scab rant.

Just this one - but hijack is a stretch. How was I to know a couple of blue koolaid drinking -320 drivers would come to the defense of the indefensible?

..........but to hypothesize that some non tipping UAL pilot is part of the class of 85 is over the top.

Uhhh, yeah - what a crazy idea that was. With hundreds of the scumbags at UAL, it's just "over the top" to consider that possibility.

BTW - tip your drivers & your maids and of course your bartenders. Cheers.:beer:

 

[xjhawk]

when I was a driver for a company that did airport runs......guess what........I was not tipped most of the time! Oh did i mention these guys who I drove were finacial experts.......i guess i will not mention the company...headquarters in minneapolis....anyways, when I was in college, all my friends who were bar tenders were making over 50 grand a year. Oh, did i mention my friend who worked 4 nights a week at applebees, paid for school and bought a house while in school. I tend to agree with the guy who said what I do with my money is my business! I tip when its appropriate. If the job he or she did was good enough to make me happy with the service. (put my bag in the van, no near death experiences) Oh did i mention if I can afford it....and I cannot remember the last time i bought a beer on a trip, nor do I ever buy epensive food, I usually pack 4 days of food for 4 days. lets be done with this already.

 

[80for80]

when I was a driver for a company that did airport runs......guess what........I was not tipped most of the time! Oh did i mention these guys who I drove were finacial experts.......i guess i will not mention the company...headquarters in minneapolis....anyways, when I was in college, all my friends who were bar tenders were making over 50 grand a year. Oh, did i mention my friend who worked 4 nights a week at applebees, paid for school and bought a house while in school. I tend to agree with the guy who said what I do with my money is my business! I tip when its appropriate. If the job he or she did was good enough to make me happy with the service. (put my bag in the van, no near death experiences) Oh did i mention if I can afford it....and I cannot remember the last time i bought a beer on a trip, nor do I ever buy epensive food, I usually pack 4 days of food for 4 days. lets be done with this already.

Living the dream aren't you!!!

 

[roadrunnerblue]

I agree whole heartedly about tipping being out of control. I mean ewe've got people at coffee shops making better than min. wage who've got the nerve to ask for tips for making your tripple-hockachino. I had this discussion with a friend just last night; if the van driver gets my bags and is generally cool I tip without hesitation. I try to get my own bags, but sometimes tehy beat me to it(hey, I guess that's hustle).

Now, if they take me to and from a restaraunt or some other place after the ride from the airport I'm more inclined to tip, I don't know why that's different in my head.

Bottom line is that people in the retail businesses have gotten way to accustomed to asking for money beyond their wages from the pockets of their customers. And most people are so guilty for having someone serve them a muffin that they'll fall for it. Even though they stood there waiting for it and cleaned it up when they were done. For crying out loud they're making an hourly wage, if they want more money they should get a better job.

Problem is, that in this country capitalism rules and the negative side of this is that businesses get away with paying their help $2.50/hr because they make 50/hr in tips. In other words the "justice for all" courts allow this kind of abuse and unscrupulous entrepreneurs love it. Just like when one gets sick: if you are out of PTO/PTS your pay gets docked. What kind of BS is that in a "civilized" society? But then it also panders to big business and allows illegal immigration to fester while we have to take off our shoes at the screening points.