Age 65 2007

[airfogey]

The age 60 proponents knew the rules when they came into this profession. To change the rules now requires a compelling reason since it will harm a large group of those that came into the profession under the same conditions.

How about if the senior guys decided that they wanted to take away 15% of the junior guys' paychecks and keep it for themselves? Would that be fair? That's in reality what they are doing by arbitrarily changing a long-standing working condition that benefits them. I don't want to work in this stinking profession past 60 and have planned my career that way. The raising the age whores are trying to steal money out of my pocket by prolonging furlough time and delaying upgrade. It's as simple as that.

I guess you could call me a age 60 whore, but I'm amazed at the attitude of people like Draginass--they call it a stinking profession--why dont you retire long before you reach age 60 since you hate it so much.--as for me I certainly advocate any raise or anything to make the right seat more palatable--I'm not trying to take 15% of anybody's earnings away but I also don't appreciate all you pro age 60 folks wanting to take 100% of my earnings away from me.
For the record I have always been against age 60 since I've been in the industry-and that was before I was 30 at a commuter--and I've been against age 60 since I was in the military and looking at an airline career in the '70s before ALPA sold out to the FO's and SO's and stopped fighting to overturn the age 60 rule. And for all you zero sum game types out there-there are 5 times as many airliners in the fleet now than in 1978 so you could say that for every upgrade from someone retiring since then-four more have happened because of expansion. Those of you who gripe the most are probably at "legacy carriers" that have shrunk since 9-11..I'm sorry about your choice of carriers--but if you don't want to stick it out at your legacy there are plenty of captain jobs at new airlines and others that are expanding.

Airfogey

 

[Freight Dog]

Excuse me... NOBODY is actively trying to take 100% of your earnings from you. Age 60 has been the law for a number of decades, certainly since before you or I joined this industry.

Now... on the other hand, YOU are trying to CHANGE the rule that's BEEN IN PLACE FOR DECADES for your own gain at my expense.

See the difference?

 

[pilotyip]

purpeldog I guess you don't hang around airports on your days off and talk airplanes, pitty that is what it is all about.

 

[I Hate Freight]

Age 60 has been the law for a number of decades,

So was slavery.

Now... on the other hand, YOU are trying to CHANGE the rule that's BEEN IN PLACE FOR DECADES for your own gain at my expense.

I'm sure that's what the slave owners said too. Rules and laws are designed to be changed. It's called progress. Age 60 is gone. Get used to it and plan accordingly or change careers.

IHF

 

[steel]

So was slavery.



I'm sure that's what the slave owners said too. Rules and laws are designed to be changed. It's called progress. Age 60 is gone. Get used to it and plan accordingly or change careers.

IHF

I guess you should get ready for a civil war. Age 60 is plenty old enough to be flying for a living. You knew what you were getting into when you started this endeavor! Nobody was forcing you into it like they did with slavery. You should be ashamed of yourself for comparing the two.

 

[Black Hawk]

Rules and laws are designed to be changed. It's called progress.

Finally some sense in this thread. FAR 121 has evolved and changed constantly over the years and will continue to do so. They are just minimum compliance standards. ALPA and the airlines can establish higher standards if they want to.

 

[Freight Dog]

IHF... it's called lowering one's standards. If age wasn't an issue, you wouldn't have the requirement for the other crewmember to be under 60.

That's a great comparison BTW.... can't help but laugh at the comparison between the age 60 rule and slavery. That's about what it will become if the rule gets lifted... you just try to retire at 60 or earlier - hope you hit the lottery beforehand.

BTW... no, I'm not getting used to the idea of airline pilots over 60. Just how APAAD is fighting to change the rule, you have a great deal of us fighting to preserve the rule.

Like I said, APAAD and the pro-change crowd is causing this "civil war" since you brought up slavery. Now, if they petitioned for pension reform to allow airline pilots full benefits at 60, you would see one big unified front. Instead... it's the house divided and the management is laughing.

 

[Flybynite]

You knew what you were getting into when you started this endeavor!

This battle was over the day they let foreign pilots over the age of 60 fly in U.S. airspace. Though, it is hard to believe they would even consider a change with such a compelling argument like this one.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

All will agree that the injustice of age 60 rule is not even in the same ballpark as slavery. But the priciple that an unjust law cannot be allowed to remain effect just because of the negative economic impact that will occur is totally apllicable.

If there was no age limit today, you could not justify enacting a limit at 60.

 

[Flopgut]

Hey Chest: How about a friendly wager? One hundred dollars on a Ruth's Chris Steakhouse gift card (payable in an anonymous fashion of course). The bet: 70% of SWA pilots will regret the passage age 65 retirement age 12 months after it passes. How about it?

 

[Flopgut]

Rules and laws are designed to be changed. It's called progress. Age 60 is gone. Get used to it and plan accordingly or change careers.

IHF

There will be nothing you can term "progress", even remotely, after this retirement age change.

It's too bad you can't understand that.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Hey Chest: How about a friendly wager? One hundred dollars on a Ruth's Chris Steakhouse gift card (payable in an anonymous fashion of course). The bet: 70% of SWA pilots will regret the passage age 65 retirement age 12 months after it passes. How about it?

I do not know how we could quantify the 70% without a poll of some kind. I would be happy to ask the guys/girls that I am around and go to 60% on the wager, but that still wouldn't be very scientific. I do think that you are correct in that this will not be as good as many on the pro-change side believe, nor as bad as many on the anti-change side.

 

[Flopgut]

I do not know how we could quantify the 70% without a poll of some kind. I would be happy to ask the guys/girls that I am around and go to 60% on the wager, but that still wouldn't be very scientific. I do think that you are correct in that this will not be as good as many on the pro-change side believe, nor as bad as many on the anti-change side.

Let's do a poll on here, maybe. I want to stick with 70% so even as few as 7 out of 10 respondents will work.

This is going to be a wreck my friend, even over there. You're going to end up bringing hundreds back and getting sued by the rest. We are all going to be wishing we never did this.

Edit: The respondents have to be under age 60, OK? Let's run a poll thread and use the first 100 replies.

.....Actually, you're right, I don't know how we can do this....I'll think of something and get back to you. When does the SWAPA re-polling on the issue fininsh up?

 

[Chest Rockwell]

When does the SWAPA re-polling on the issue fininsh up?

Noon on Jan. 30th. It is purely electronic so results should be posted that afternoon or evening.

 

[Tram]

So, when should we know something definite?

Is this on a thing that is about to happen soon or is it a bunch of uproar for 3 years of hmmm hawing?

 

[Andy]

So, when should we know something definite?

Is this on a thing that is about to happen soon or is it a bunch of uproar for 3 years of hmmm hawing?

Blakey has a conference scheduled for the afternoon of 30 Jan at the National Press Club.

 

[Tram]

Thanks..

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

Oh great. I have a bad feeling about what might be announced on the 30th. Does anyone have any inside information about what Blakey is going to announce or discuss?

 

[Flopgut]

I heard the announcment will be that an NPRM is forthcoming immediately. The time frame from there will be 12-18 months for effective date. I heard this from a guy who was at the ALPA thing in Chicago and got to chat with an ALPA leader.

 

[Flopgut]

Oh, and a committe will be formed that will include ALPA and other pilot leaders to formulate implementation. I heard things discussed like: A 10 year incremental phase in, no retired guys coming back, age 60+ fly FO only, etc. This is what ALPA is spitballing, they did go on to point out that SWA is likely to take an opposite position on almost all ALPA ideas and that will mess things up, and support the countless lawsuits that will be filed.