Gulfstream, whats the real story

[Metro752]

i knew a guy, no offense to you bro if you are reading, who did a bit of his training at DCA before coming to his senses, who honest to God thought you needed to have a current sectional in the airplane in order to be legal.....

 

[svcta]

Okay I think Taters hit the first real good point. Valuable experience! He's right you can't buy real world experience that you can get flying general aviation. Just for the record I was a CFI before I came to Gulfstream and I was flying a Seneca for a guy who owned some businesses around the northwest. There is a lot to learned icing up a 172 crossing the cascade mountains in the winter! Now why I choose Gulfstream.... I did not like being a CFI and quite frankly was not that good at it. Some people are good natural teachers...I am not one of those people! The other issue I had with being a cfi is hours. It is probably different in other parts of the country but in the northwest in the winter... hardly anybody fly’s. I would hardly log 20hrs in a month. At $11hr that was not going to cut it. That’s why I flew the Seneca for the business owner. I gained a lot of experience flying that thing in all sorts of weather into all different types of airports. Okay now here is the main reason I choose to leave general aviation and go to Gulfstream....One day a chieftain operated by a part 135 cargo operator had a duel catastrophic engine failure over the Cascade mountains and was unable to make an airport and crashed killing a very very good friend of mine. So as far as I am concerned....I paid my dues. I wanted out of piston aircraft.

The problem with gulfstream is the guys that come from programs like DCA or riddle. Book smart yes! But they would crap their pants if I flew them into a 1800ft grass mountain runway! Or if I flew in a cloud! LOL Most of the guys that come from these programs have like .3 actual!

Now I will be the first to admit there are a few people at gulfstream that just want to wear the uniform at the airport. Those guys usually aren’t asked to stay after they do their 250hrs though. Also the industry is changing. It used to be flying a turboprop was paying your dues. But with the amount of RJ's out there today that you can fly at 500TT people seem to be skipping the turboprop step. Well sorry for the novel but I thought all this needed to be said. So in sumery I agree that people need to build experence in GA and gain some experence flying on your own before chosing to come to a place like Gulfstream.

Some first-class justfication. How much experience did you accrue before "getting out of pistons"?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

HAHA. Go pay tens of thousands of dollars to wear a uniform tuning raidos in a plane that can be flown single pilot.

Get real.

Who the FCUK pays for a 121 job with the regionals hiring with way low times. I'm guessing that you want tot avoid all of that extra studying and PIC responsibility that comes with earning your CFI's.

You only BEGIN to learn about flying and decision making after you've given some dual. After that, you're more qualified for doing some 135 stuff, let alone being mixed up in 121 operations with barely commerical minimims.

By the way, after you've sat right side for 250 hrs. you turn in your ID and get shown the door. How's that feel... maybe something like a whore?

 

[Murdoughnut]

Okay I think Taters hit the first real good point. Valuable experience! He's right you can't buy real world experience that you can get flying general aviation. Just for the record I was a CFI before I came to Gulfstream and I was flying a Seneca for a guy who owned some businesses around the northwest. There is a lot to learned icing up a 172 crossing the cascade mountains in the winter! Now why I choose Gulfstream.... I did not like being a CFI and quite frankly was not that good at it. Some people are good natural teachers...I am not one of those people! The other issue I had with being a cfi is hours. It is probably different in other parts of the country but in the northwest in the winter... hardly anybody fly’s. I would hardly log 20hrs in a month. At $11hr that was not going to cut it. That’s why I flew the Seneca for the business owner. I gained a lot of experience flying that thing in all sorts of weather into all different types of airports. Okay now here is the main reason I choose to leave general aviation and go to Gulfstream....One day a chieftain operated by a part 135 cargo operator had a duel catastrophic engine failure over the Cascade mountains and was unable to make an airport and crashed killing a very very good friend of mine. So as far as I am concerned....I paid my dues. I wanted out of piston aircraft.

The problem with gulfstream is the guys that come from programs like DCA or riddle. Book smart yes! But they would crap their pants if I flew them into a 1800ft grass mountain runway! Or if I flew in a cloud! LOL Most of the guys that come from these programs have like .3 actual!

Now I will be the first to admit there are a few people at gulfstream that just want to wear the uniform at the airport. Those guys usually aren’t asked to stay after they do their 250hrs though. Also the industry is changing. It used to be flying a turboprop was paying your dues. But with the amount of RJ's out there today that you can fly at 500TT people seem to be skipping the turboprop step. Well sorry for the novel but I thought all this needed to be said. So in sumery I agree that people need to build experence in GA and gain some experence flying on your own before chosing to come to a place like Gulfstream.

I'm actually curious, how does Gulfstream decide who gets to stay and who has to go after they get their 250 hours? What percentage of people get dumped on the street after the program?

 

[tomcat]

Unfortunately less than should get shown the door, due in part to the shortages that are hitting just about every regional (alot of guys going places as previously mentioned). Amish, show me one 121 company that flies 1900's single-pilot. It can be done, but it is still valuable training. I swap every other leg with my co-pilot. This place isn't for everyone, especially nowadays where regionals are hiring with 500 TT. I'm not saying that GTA makes the best pilots in the world, there are people who come here who have no business on an airline flightdeck, but those people are weeded out whether it is at this level or the next.

 

[jetracer5]

I'm actually curious, how does Gulfstream decide who gets to stay and who has to go after they get their 250 hours? What percentage of people get dumped on the street after the program?

Well there is no written criteria for permanent hire but like any business they look at your history with the airline. As long as you showed up to work on time and have a good attitude, are professional and 3 current captains recommend you, you will be asked to stay. This weeds out your typical stereotype "gulfstreamer" If your a good pilot and can handle yourself in the aircraft you should have no problem. To put a number on it I would say 10% get there ID taken and sent away like Amish said, and 10% get another job before they finish there time and the rest stick around and upgrade or build more time as an F/O and move on to another regional flying an RJ or something. I would also guess a few leave the industry completely. The other thing is that with the min’s at a lot of the regional coming down to 500TT its has to be hurting Gulfstream. I would guess that the PFT here just may be over just like Comair and Continental Express’s PFT ended a while back. Everybody needs pilots right now including Gulfstream.

 

[svcta]

This weeds out your typical stereotype "gulfstreamer"

The only thing that weeds out a typical gulfstreamer is a show of hands on who bought their job.

the question isn't wether or not a monkey can be trained to fly a jet, but what kind of person we're talking about here. It's a matter of dignity, professionalism, and character, and the experiences that you get from actually experiencing life as a pilot. I think character is the bottom line, though.

Hacks.

 

[tomcat]

So why aren't you standing in front of the GTA to let these people know how they are screwing everyone(including themselves). Still not clear on who is getting it here: is it all of the guys/girls who built up their time CFI/Check hauling/etc., now have over 1000TT and want to go fly 1900's in Florida? It's not like everyone who is a pilot reads this message board to get their airline career advice. You are entitled to your opinion and this is just one of the ways in which you can express it.

 

[svcta]

So why aren't you standing in front of the GTA to let these people know how they are screwing everyone(including themselves). Still not clear on who is getting it here: is it all of the guys/girls who built up their time CFI/Check hauling/etc., now have over 1000TT and want to go fly 1900's in Florida? It's not like everyone who is a pilot reads this message board to get their airline career advice. You are entitled to your opinion and this is just one of the ways in which you can express it.

I had to read that post a few times to understand it....I'm still not sure I do. Not clear on who's getting what? The concept? Me, neither. Are you telling me that there are actually people who plunk down that kind of coin with 1000 hours already in their logbooks? Well, not only are they whores, but freaking stupid whores.

A quick asside: It just occurred to me, even a whore gets paid for his/her time. I can't even call gulfstreamers whores, can I? Well, until I think of something better I will.

Yes, this is one place that I can express my opinion. I think that it reaches a few people, so it will have to work for me. I speak the same way regarding your employer whenever it comes up, on the internet or not. I live too far away to go stand in front of your building, but even if I didn't I don't want to get too close for fear I may catch something.

 

[Murdoughnut]

If Gulfstream were to pay its graduates their standard first year FO pay during their guaranteed 250 hours, would that change people's opinions of the place? Then it would simply be a training program leading to a job, right? Isn't that what they do in Europe?