Delta RFP awarded....

[thebest]

Hey, how did ALPA help comair 5 years ago?

How did ALPA help UAL in 2000?

How did ALPA help FedEx?

Comair is in bankruptcy. Do you see the difference? The paycuts are NOT due to ALPA. But unless you are a moron, you already knew all of this. Just trying to sell your bull sht, aren't you?

How is alpa helping comair now?

How did alpa help UAL in 2001!

Fed ex don't need no help..........

alpa looked good when the industry was good. But now the FACTS show that alpa can't help anyone! But unless you are a moron, you already knew this.

 

[acarpe3448]

ASA has lost a total of 28 airplanes to SkyWest since the purchase, for whoever is counting. We have Captains and FO's who have not been brought back up since they were displaced.

None of the CMR 70 seaters is on the property and in fact, none of the leases have been transferred. I smell management "threats" to scare pilots while CMR is on track for a $50,000,0000 profit.

While we know that ASA's airplanes are being flown by SkyWest, I will not believe ASA is operating CMR's jets until it is on our ramp, broke.

As for how ASA pilots feel about management whipsaw - we have passed resolutions to stop concessionary bargaining for jets and phantom pay rates for jets on our property. Not only do we not like it, but we seem to be about the only pilot group actually trying to do something about it.

Oh excuse me while I puke! Over 1000 Delta pilots and many more flight attendants lost their jobs while they were handed to Comair. Comair took over $1 billion of new and larger RJs! They faught hard to take that flying, they could not give a $hit what that meant to us! We have pilots that are still out of a job 5 years later. Comair also filed a huge lawsuit to try to grab more of Delta mainline flying, and faught to keep the furloughed Delta pilots from coming over there. I do not have any sympathy for these group of people. When they are able to rape you, they will do it gladly and say it's not their fault! When they are losing jets, jobs and flying, they are a bunch of whinners! Enjoy unemployment! You all deserve it!

 

[sweptback]

Hey Sweptback,
As a former poor FO for ASA, I had flown with Nelson D for a few trips on OE. I am just curious if the 700 that bears his initials in the regisration, is still at ASA. If that airplane leaves, that will speak volumes about managment. As for ASA, I flew with many great guys, and a few tools. Just like every other place you work. Good luck on the contract, 4+ years is beyond ridiculous.

It's still here.

 

[Ben Dover]

Well let's be honest: Unions.

Exactly! Not saying everything about unions is bad. But maybe it's time to try a different tack.

 

[jayme]

How is alpa helping comair now?

How did alpa help UAL in 2001!

Fed ex don't need no help..........

alpa looked good when the industry was good. But now the FACTS show that alpa can't help anyone! But unless you are a moron, you already knew this.

My point is that ALPA can help a pilot group get their fair share when a company is raking in the profits, and when the company is in bankruptcy, there's not much anyone can do. SAPA can't even get us a raise to keep up with inflation when the company is making money hand over fist.

So back to your questions: How is ALPA helping Comair now? They are forcing the company to prove in court that they need to take paycuts. Until that time, they are being paid what they negotiated and agreed to.

How did ALPA help UAL in 2001? You mean after 9/11/2001? After the worst attacks this country has ever seen? After 2 of their airliners were hijacked and destroyed? After a huge downturn in travel? Are you suggesting SAPA should have been consulted by the UAL pilots and their pay would have been preserved? What's your point?

FedEx don't need help. How insightful. But can you concede that without ALPA, FedEx management wouldn't pay the pilots what they do? Can you concede that management would argue "supply and demand." With so few good jobs out there the past 5 years, FedEx could have paid far less and still been swamped with applications. Can you concede that ALPA might have had a hand in keeping their pay at or near the top of the industry?

Probably not, because you are blinded by your ideology. I just don't get it.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Oh excuse me while I puke! Over 1000 Delta pilots and many more flight attendants lost their jobs while they were handed to Comair. .... and faught to keep the furloughed Delta pilots from coming over there. I do not have any sympathy for these group of people. When they are able to rape you, they will do it gladly and say it's not their fault! When they are losing jets, jobs and flying, they are a bunch of whinners! Enjoy unemployment! You all deserve it!

Nice, real nice.

Apparently you forgot that the Delta MEC negotiated the scope language that resulted in "over 1000 Delta pilots..lost their jobs." The Comair pilots were locked out of those negotiations by ALPA, acting on the direction of the Delta MEC.

Why don't you get mad at the people RESPONSIBLE instead of those who happened to be the unwitting beneficiaries of ALPA's screwed up scope policies.

 

[av8tor4239]

f&%$K THE REGIONALS... It should be everyones motivation to get the F off whatever property you are on and either hang yourself in your hotel room or get a better job..

 

[bvt1151]

Oh excuse me while I puke! Over 1000 Delta pilots and many more flight attendants lost their jobs while they were handed to Comair. Comair took over $1 billion of new and larger RJs!

Uh, excuse me, but exactly how many RJ's did Delta fly? Delta was offered the RJ's and declined because they didn't want to negotiate a payrate for them.

Skywest, on the other hand, has negotiated a pay rate on the very same aircraft Comair flies and will be flying aircraft directly transferred from Comair's fleet.

Apples and Oranges, acarpe.

 

[samballs]

Oh excuse me while I puke! Over 1000 Delta pilots and many more flight attendants lost their jobs while they were handed to Comair. Comair took over $1 billion of new and larger RJs! They faught hard to take that flying, they could not give a $hit what that meant to us! We have pilots that are still out of a job 5 years later. Comair also filed a huge lawsuit to try to grab more of Delta mainline flying, and faught to keep the furloughed Delta pilots from coming over there. I do not have any sympathy for these group of people. When they are able to rape you, they will do it gladly and say it's not their fault! When they are losing jets, jobs and flying, they are a bunch of whinners! Enjoy unemployment! You all deserve it!

Last I checked you guys were too good to fly Rjs and now you have created a mess that you blame on everyone else.

 

[Nightrain_080]

oh yeah!!!!!!!!!!!

f&%$K THE REGIONALS... It should be everyones motivation to get the F off whatever property you are on and either hang yourself in your hotel room or get a better job..

100% Agreed

 

[Tarzan]

Uh, excuse me, but exactly how many RJ's did Delta fly? Delta was offered the RJ's and declined because they didn't want to negotiate a payrate for them.

Skywest, on the other hand, has negotiated a pay rate on the very same aircraft Comair flies and will be flying aircraft directly transferred from Comair's fleet.

Apples and Oranges, acarpe.

Time out. The way I understand that went was Delta pilots said, "Let them fly the props, we fly the jets." Management wouldn't play ball for pay rates and guess where it went? The never ending race to the bottom began.

So as it appears from my vantage point (I don't see the big picture, I don't see the big picture, I don't see....) it looks more like managment rammed it through while the pilot groups had to cave. I don't see it as the pilot's just gave up, more to the tune of forced would be more appropriate.

Take some time and look at how tis thing has really gone down. You may be sirprised. Do your own research, do buy off on what I say or ALPA die hards say. But mark these words, Skywest will have their day when they are forced into pay concessions and substandard work conditions.

 

[V-1]

But mark these words, Skywest will have their day when they are forced into pay concessions and substandard work conditions.

Some would argue that by flying 90-seat airframes for 50-seat pay, Skywest pilots have already happily agreed to pay concessions and substandard work conditions.

 

[FDJ2]

You've got it arse backwards again BVT. The Delta pilots offered to negotiate a pay rate for the RJs but DAL said that even if the Delta pilots it flew it for $0, it still wouldn't be cost effective.

Just recently, diring the DAL 1113c hearing, when DALPA argued that DAL pilots ought to fly anything over 70 seats and that DAL pilots were willing to negotiate industry competive rates, DAL countered that regardless of the rates the DAL pilots were willing to negotiate, CMR pilots cost half as much as DAL pilots to fly those same jets.

 

[737 Pylt]

Uh, excuse me, but exactly how many RJ's did Delta fly? Delta was offered the RJ's and declined because they didn't want to negotiate a payrate for them.

Skywest, on the other hand, has negotiated a pay rate on the very same aircraft Comair flies and will be flying aircraft directly transferred from Comair's fleet.

Apples and Oranges, acarpe.

As usual you're wrong.....But that's to be expected!
The DL MEC tried to negotiate rates for 70+ seaters but was told by managment that no matter what rate was negotiated it was cheaper to have cmr fly it!
From the sounds of it, you and your cmr brethren should be quite pissed off at skywest for taking your airplanes!

737

 

[Minimaniac]

Should we move back to regulation? YES.

Why? Our industry is so tightly reglated in terms of expenditures in all aspects that it is absurd not to regulate income/revenue. If our company is forced to follow one procedure, use one type of safety equipment, pay one fixed landing fee, fly a route not of our choosing, then they ought to ensure our income is adequate to cover all these expenditures. With very very lttile room for innovation on our end, we are not given many options for finanacial success aside from accquiring market share (which, thanks to internet comparison sites, can only come from reduced fares)

 

[thebest]

My point is that ALPA can help a pilot group get their fair share when a company is raking in the profits, and when the company is in bankruptcy, there's not much anyone can do. SAPA can't even get us a raise to keep up with inflation when the company is making money hand over fist.

So back to your questions: How is ALPA helping Comair now? They are forcing the company to prove in court that they need to take paycuts. Until that time, they are being paid what they negotiated and agreed to.

How did ALPA help UAL in 2001? You mean after 9/11/2001? After the worst attacks this country has ever seen? After 2 of their airliners were hijacked and destroyed? After a huge downturn in travel? Are you suggesting SAPA should have been consulted by the UAL pilots and their pay would have been preserved? What's your point?

FedEx don't need help. How insightful. But can you concede that without ALPA, FedEx management wouldn't pay the pilots what they do? Can you concede that management would argue "supply and demand." With so few good jobs out there the past 5 years, FedEx could have paid far less and still been swamped with applications. Can you concede that ALPA might have had a hand in keeping their pay at or near the top of the industry?

Probably not, because you are blinded by your ideology. I just don't get it.

Ya, you just don't get it. alpa can help a company get their fair share when the company is raking in profits.... http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/12-05-2006/0004486034&EDATE= $50 mill projected.....Try again! They are losing airplanes, WHAT IS ALPO DOING TO HELP?
The idea of a union is to keep things good for the workers and not pushed around when things are good or bad. Well, things got bad and alpa crumbled like the useless pieces of sht they are! No help here boyz, ya are on your own.
Comair and alpo in court. Delta said they are still giving the flying away even if comair takes cuts, GREAT JOB AGAIN ALPO!
The frieght side of this is GRAVY! Good place for alpa to be hangin around because that is where the cash is. Then tell the weak minded that alpa really helps!
Did I say anything about sapa and ual talking....stop listening to the voices.

 

[jayme]

Comair is in BANKRUPTCY COURT! The COURT has taken away their rights. That can be appealed. There is a legal process. And as far as I know, Comair ALPA has no influence over Delta management. ALPA can't make Delta management's decisions. Do you know something I don't?

When I said "I just don't get it." I meant your intense ideology.

FedEx is gravy, huh? What induces FedEx management to pay top wages? Benevolence?

As far as my point about UAL: YOU asked how ALPA helped UAL. I explained the situation (Massive terrorist attack, world-wide economic downturn... remember?). ALPA had no leverage since UAL filed Ch 11. You want to know how ALPA remedied the situation?! What the fck do you think ALPA, or SAPA, or anybody else could do for those pilots? So to make my point, I suggested SAPA could do no better.

I feel like I'm being condescending having to explain my points to you like this. It's not because I WANT to explain things to you like you're a child. It's because I feel like I HAVE to.

 

[jayme]

One more thing: what makes FedEx pilots want to keep ALPA on property? If it's so easy for FedEx pilots to get paid well, why are they throwing away 1.9 % of their wages?

I'm guessing they are more familiar with the reasons than you. I am also guessing they feel their dues are a good investment.

 

[SkyNation]

jayme,

an honest question. did you know SkyWest was not an ALPA carrier when you interviewed and accepted the job? do you believe EVERY airline MUST have a union, or ALPA specifically?

 

[joe_pilot]

As much as I don't care for the cmr group, I think that sucks!
I wonder how the skyw pilots feel about this?

737

I for one don't like it.