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NWA Leather Jackets........

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swa pilots had leather jackets from day 1 or almost from day 1. big difference, and they were not always, by a long shot , the best compensated, quite the oposite.
go backy to june 2000, see who had leather jackets and what their compensation was.

again is just one more mental game from management.
 
it is not about what people think, is about the perception you give to management and the peception of worth you have over yourself.
What does that have to do with leather? Contracts are decided in the negotiating room; not walking through the terminals.
have you ever seen a legacy airline CEO go to a board meeting wearing a leather jacket?no, they wear armani suits and prada shoes.
How many layovers, walks to McDonalds, exterior preflights in dripping glycol, trips through security, and tired commutes do CEOs have? You're comparing their jobs to ours?
it is all psychological.
To you it is. To me, it's about convenience at a job that wreaks havoc with quality of life.
every union should negotiate expensive designer uniforms to the shoes and t-shirts with very small epaulets.
And you think this would make management respect us more? Methinks your knowldege of phsychology needs some work. All that would do is increase our day-to-day cost to maintain our uniforms.
conduct yourself with pride, don't sell yourself short.
Absolutely! Why did you change the subject?
the leather jacket is one more way to lower your expectations and diminish your self worth.
Lofty words. Prove it! That's right; prove it. Prove that the pilots at airlines that permit leather jackets give more concessions than those that don't. Until you can your opinion is nothing more than an opinion.
and no, at home I don't dress with expensive suits, but at work , you should. .
People who wear expensive suits generally own many of them. Who exactly would you expect to pay for multiple uniforms? The company? Yeah sure, what concessions are you willing to give for the priviledge of wearing fancy uniforms? You think they're just going to give them to us?
 
it is not about what people think, is about the perception you give to management and the peception of worth you have over yourself. have you ever seen a legacy airline CEO go to a board meeting wearing a leather jacket?no, they wear armani suits and prada shoes.

it is all psicological. if you dress like a truck driver you will get paid like a truck driver. it is one more of the many management ways to "show us " how little they value you and your services, how you don't belong making six figures and how they are entitled to their huge pay. they are superior to you, they drive nice cars , have big homes and dress with expensive suits. you don't , because you shouldn't, because you are a worthless comodity.

every union should negotiate expensive designer uniforms to the shoes and t-shirts with very small epaulets. dress pilots like businessmen, doctors,lawyers......highly paid proffesionals.

conduct yourself with pride, don't sell yourself short. have you ever heard one of those upper management clowns prop him/herself up about something he /she did that a 3 year old could have done ?they make everything they do seem incredible...the cool/hero factor of flying needs to go away, the "good old boy just doing my job" attitude needs to go away. docotrs don't make what they do sound cool, they make it sound important and difficult and don't wear leather jackets and dirty $50 shoes. If you want to earn like a doctor act like one, proyect your proffesion to be as important as theirs, dress like you should. your sense of worth is all psicological.

the leather jacket is one more way to lower your expectations and diminish your self worth.

I know it sounds weird, but is one more psicological battle we just lost.

and no, at home I don't dress with expensive suits, but at work , you should. .


Ha,ha.ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ho,ho,ho,ho,ho,BwwwHaaa,ha.
Best laugh this year.
 
swa pilots had leather jackets from day 1 or almost from day 1. big difference, and they were not always, by a long shot , the best compensated, quite the oposite.
go backy to june 2000, see who had leather jackets and what their compensation was.

again is just one more mental game from management.

Snowbum,

I've held my tongue long enough. After reading all of your posts on this thread I can't help but laugh at your attempts to raise the perception of the professional pilot to that of doctors and CEOs. Your main argument in order to do this is to basically tell all of us to stop wearing leather jackets. I'll make you a deal, I'll stop wearing a leather jacket if you promise to make one single post that does not have spelling/grammatical errors all over it. God help all of us if you get into a position to bargin with CEOs through written correspondence. I know this is just a message board, and generally I would just look the other way, but I'd rather look like a "unprofessional" in my leather jacket than spell/type like my 3 year old. I guess it's just "psicological"... but hey that's me.

Deer Mr. Airline CEO,

We pilots our unifyied. Just look at how we dress, proffessional... just like you. We demand hi salarys and better working conditions. Please except are terms.

Thank you,
Snowbum
 
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Snowbum:

It appears that you like the argument and philosophy of blaming the victim, as if through their own behavior, they have brought their fates upon themselves. You are claiming that because a pilot desires comfort and high utility from his enforced (and expensive) work clothing, he deserves greedy and unethical management. I suppose that battered children don't behave well enough, and rape victims just dress too sexy, also?
 
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what I was trying to say is that before all the QOL,PAY and Bennies cuts, most of us who worked for the regionals, outfits and LCC's wore leather jackets and wanted to work for the big boys.

now that the big boys compensation has gone down to equal ( in some cases even worse) that of the LCC's and outfits, they get the leather jacket too. coincidence? not.It is one more thing management has done to separate you from the good all days of 2000 and before.

I don't think your job as a pilot is more important of that of the CEO ( is not) or that you should get paid like one.

I don't think you are less profesional for wearing a leather jacket. but it does separate you from the days when this was a real career and a real profesion( like doctors or lawyers) , with real earning potential, good QOL, retirement and respect.
 
Snowbum, thanks, that last statement makes more sense. I would only go on to say that I do not believe refusing the leather jacket will make things better regarding pay and QOL. So, why not enjoy being somewhat more comfortable at work?
 
I'm sure airline managers all over the planet are trying to figure out how to get you to wear paper hats next.

There's about as much correlation between leather jackets and pay cuts as there is between what my neighbors dog ate for breakfast and why the Eagles beat the Cowboys.
 
I guess Fed Ex pilots are not professional either, didn't they just sign a very lucrative contract? And oh yeah they don't wear hats either.
 
Snowbum,
I'll stop wearing a leather jacket if you promise to make one single post that does not have spelling/grammatical errors all over it.

I don't think you are less profesional....
....days when this was a real career and a real profesion

Oh-ryan,

Beautiful! You called him out and it took him about 45 minutes to make himself look like an ass - twice.

Sweet.

-Fate
 
Saw one of the NWA pilots wearing the leather jacket the other day... just doesn't look right, I have to say.

Thankfully there's just a handful of guys wearing them. I can't imagine what would possess some guy that just took a 40% paycut to pay for his own leather jacket for work. :rolleyes:

I guess I'm too traditional...

Ditto.
 
Agree on the jacket issue. A joke. I'm putting the $400 into my daughters 529 Plan. Its all about her.....
 
just do not get it do you?????

I think it looks great when Captain Fonzzie shows up at the gate. Most of the business travelers just snicker though.

I started this threat with the intentions of just this......to bring out the idiots who think there is a relationship between our pay and what we wear to work. The business industry goes in cycles of dressing "up" and dressing "down". In some industries its more pronounced than others. But the fact that remains pay does not equate to dress and vice versa. Doctors (surgons)who are the highest paid of Doctors, when at work wear scrubs, not suits. So by snow jobs standards, where wearing suits should get you higher pay, does not apply there either. And bankers and attornys wear clothing which are suitable to their environment and activities, office work. Now if you look at our uniform and its history, its a military history, not a banker or attorney, or doctor. The hat is from early 20's and 30's army airforce and the polyester blazer, tie, and matching pants are like the class A uniform of the old air corp and airforce uniform. which if i am not mistaken, their flight deck is not too different from ours....in comfort. So we should be changing into our new flight suits and leather jackets like they have now......made of nomex no doubt!

The base idea here is professionalism. Some here equate that with money earned. A lot of society does as well. But tell me if you have ever seen a man or woman carry themselves with a professional manner and they did not make a lot of money? I would also like to argue that you are not more professional when you fly a bigger airplane, just more senior and sometimes a bit more lucky at timing. I seem to remember stories to NWA hiring those with under a 1000 hours because they were so desperate for pilots. Some are still around flying the whale......look it up, ia m not making it up.....and they were not like super pilots, better back in the day.....like i said, better timing and lucky.

I mention this because it seems that you at the majors still want your cake and eat it too. You want a line drawn between you and us. Yes everyone used to want to have your job, but now, because of a number of factors, you are not the only gig in town, nor are you the best paid (this makes you mad huh?). the highest paid are southwest, fedex and big brown......all who wear leather right? Yes i still want to go to a major, but no do i want to have a 70's mustache, hair from the 70's, or no hair ( i might go with that route very soon), nor do i want a polyester cheaply made uniform with a coat i am not warm or dry in! (the point of this entire thread!) But i do want the beach condo, cabin on a lake, 15 days off, a nice house, and a few nice cars.

I like that i can see the ones who disagree with my line of thought will be gone in a short few years, for the industry will be a better place without your line of thought....snow job! Oh and by the way, i have talked with a couple of NWA guys who have that jacket.......they are down to earth good guys, thats a good batting average when striking up cold conversations.....i hope to meet more.
Wearing a leather jacket or a designer suit will not give us better pay or worse pay, what will get us better pay and work rules will be better union leadership from alpa membership. undercuting pay, allowing laws to empower companies in the courts, and greedy pilots who will sacrifice others for thier own gain is what will stop us from getting what we professionals deserve.

Oh, and the flying public , even the business class ones, do not judge our clothing standards and base our skill by the material of our coat. What they do look at is how we present oursleves. Looking like we are tired or cannot afford new pants because of holes in our uniform is what bothers them. They are concerned that we are not being paid enough because they understand our responsibility level should equat to a higher professional pay. This is coming right from passangers and my friends who are professional business passangers.

Oh, i am done for now, hope everyone got the point!
 
The business industry goes in cycles of dressing "up" and dressing "down".

No, the guys in the cubicles making $50k a year have their style of dress go in cycles. The executives in the corner offices making $150k+ always dress in nice suits because they know that your clothing and general appearance are how you make your first impression. That matters in business, and it matters in every other aspect of life. If you want to be viewed as a professional who deserves respect, then wearing a leather jacket and a backpack isn't going to get it for you.

I like that i can see the ones who disagree with my line of thought will be gone in a short few years

Not quite. I've got over 30 years to go, and I wouldn't be caught dead in a leather bomber jacket. At work or otherwise.

Oh, and the flying public , even the business class ones, do not judge our clothing standards and base our skill by the material of our coat. What they do look at is how we present oursleves. Looking like we are tired or cannot afford new pants because of holes in our uniform is what bothers them. They are concerned that we are not being paid enough because they understand our responsibility level should equat to a higher professional pay. This is coming right from passangers and my friends who are professional business passangers.

Your friends might think that way, but I've talked to many others who believe the exact opposite. Like it or not, many passengers are judging you and your profession by the way your dress and present yourself. They don't get to see your level of professionalism on the flight deck. The only thing they know about you is how you present yourself.
 
Just so I have this straight.

Wear nice clothes, passengers think we are professional, we get paid more money. Well, not exactly. Present ourselves as professionals, we get more money, again, doesn't seem to work that way.

SWA, FDX, Airborne, Alaka, - yup, get paid the highest wages, which, by the way, is all I frickin care about and yet they have leather jackets....

You "dress for success" guys are ridiculus. I wonder how many of your "friends" that notice what the pilots look like, still got on the plane even if he had a leather jacket. Answer, all did. Do you get it now?

The more pilots I met, the more I like my ex-wife.....
 
Then wear jeans and a Led Zep t-shirt to work for the next trip you have.... where do you draw the line?

That is why it is called a uniform. uni. So the guys who don't think a dress code matters don't show up looking like punks....

Funny, when you wanted the job I bet you dressed up real nice.....
 

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