ASA/SkyWest in ATL

[Andy Neill]

Trying to remember elements of my business law.

I was thinking about the agreement between Delta and SkyWest when the latter bought ASA. There was a provision in the contract that said ASA would retain a certain percentage of the flying out of ATL.

Now if Delta breached that contract by awarding SkyWest Inc. ATL flying and requesting/requiring (allowing Inc to let) SkyWest Airlines to fly it, it would be up to SkyWest Inc to ask for redress. If Inc did not object, then it would not be an issue.

I think some have expressed a concern that the ASA flying was dropping below the agreed percentage. I can see where it might be and that Inc doesn't object - in fact would be supportive of SKYW getting more of it. There is no injured party in the contract who has legal standing.

Am I missing something?

 

[Headfake14]

I saw their -900 at D36ish last night.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Nope. It is a business agreement and not part of the union contract. There is no way that the management types at ASA would object. If they did so it would be at SKW Inc.'s peril. Now If ASA/SKW flying out of ATL went below 80% I bet that SKW would say something, but for now SKW will keep their mouths shut.
If we as a pilot group made a stink about it, then DAL and SKW would just change the wording to a mutually agreeable text. Simply put, there is no use fighting it with the current contractual wording.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Andy:

All I can think of is ALPA's status as a representative of a huge unsecured creditor, who would have standing to bring claims that the pilot they represent are being harmed by the transfer of flying to non-union carriers in an effort to undermine the bargaining of the pilots ALPA represents.

But nah, ALPA isn't going to think outside the box and besides, ALPA took bargaining credits for the Requests for Porposal down in the scope free lawless land of "small jet" flying. ALPA policy is that our jobs are not worth protecting.

 

[Andy Neill]

Thanks for the insights to ACL65 and fins.

 

[ASARJMan]

Saw one taxi in yesterday at ATL. Ramp had it hold on the ramp. and then it finally parked at it's gate about 10 minutes later. Welcome to ATL!

Voted To Strike ASA!

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

What are the hourly rates on the 900 @ SKYW compared to the hourly rates on the 200?

 

[ASARJMan]

What are the hourly rates on the 900 @ SKYW compared to the hourly rates on the 200?

Same as the 200, AND the 700!

Voted To Strike The ASA Division of Skywest Inc!

 

[cbrown1]

How is the ALPA drive progressing at skywest?

 

[LAMESAUCE]

i'm sure the ALPO drive is going well seeing as tho there are friendly asa pilots like airtime42 welcoming skywest pilots in....not.

 

[MarineGrunt]

How is the ALPA drive progressing at skywest?

It's been pretty quiet. I've been on mil leave since the pay deal passed, so I don't know what the fallout is from that...

 

[Morning Wood]

Saw one taxi in yesterday at ATL. Ramp had it hold on the ramp. and then it finally parked at it's gate about 10 minutes later. Welcome to ATL!

Voted To Strike ASA!

10 min? Big deal. The penalty box in ORD is sometimes over an hour.

 

[Longhorn]

Guys and gals......knock off the name calling now please.

 

[ASAFOE120]

10 min? Big deal. The penalty box in ORD is sometimes over an hour.

Just wait. ATL can top that. Not a cloud in the sky 2 weeks ago and we arrived 5 mins early. But we sat and waited 1 hour and 6 mins for a gate. No weather no nothing. Just no gates!

 

[CFIT]

How is the ALPA drive progressing at skywest?

ALPA wants a high majority of the pilot group to send in cards before they will petition for a vote, right now they don't have enough votes to even legally petition for a vote.

Per the rumor mill, and that's never wrong.

 

[Morning Wood]

Just wait. ATL can top that. Not a cloud in the sky 2 weeks ago and we arrived 5 mins early. But we sat and waited 1 hour and 6 mins for a gate. No weather no nothing. Just no gates!

Just like ORD. This is nothing new.

 

[BigLebowski]

Same as the 200, AND the 700!

Voted To Strike The ASA Division of Skywest Inc!

Actually it is 6% more this year...with 1% increases every year until 2010.
If you're going to post at least look at the big picture.

By the way ASARJMAN...what is ASAs policy on deadhead pay?
cancellation? Maintenance? Profit sharing? J/W

 

[BigLebowski]

As far as ALPA goes we are getting way too many people from TSA, Mesa, Mesaba, Eagle, ASA, Pinnacle, etc.

We all have had horrible experiences with ALPA...hasn't been a whole lot of support lately. Just a few people that have no experience dealing with a union who think it is the answer to everything.

 

[USCtrojan]

Actually it is 6% more this year...with 1% increases every year until 2010.
If you're going to post at least look at the big picture.

By the way ASARJMAN...what is ASAs policy on deadhead pay?
cancellation? Maintenance? Profit sharing? J/W

Deadhead pay is paid at 100%. (They tried to negotiate 50%, saying they needed that so they could deadhead us less.......rrrrrrightttttttt)......CNX paid @100% on a leg per leg basis. Maint, same thing, 100% leg per leg. No profit sharing. Junior man is paid @ 150%. Hope that helps.

Trojan

 

[ASARJMan]

By the way ASARJMAN...what is ASAs policy on deadhead pay?
cancellation? Maintenance? Profit sharing? J/W

There's your answer, 100% on all of what you mentioned. No profit sharing. We also get 100% pay for vacation lost block, sick time, check rides, scheduling screw-ups as long as it's on our final schedules. That about answer it for ya? Good.

Voted in Favor of Striking The ASA Division of Skywest Inc!
Congradulations to The No Pilot Left Behind Group! They WON!
Maybe next time Joey Coalition group!

 

[snozberry]

Back to the original reason for this thread... I believe the 80% guarantee was based on us meeting certain performance requirements. We didn't meet them and now we don't get it.

 

[thebest]

Guys and gals......knock off the name calling now please.

From the flight info far's:


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[VeeOne]

How is the ALPA drive progressing at skywest?

Given the amount of time it's taking to get the desired number of cards back, I'd have to say "NOT TOO GOOD!".

I've spoken to many pilots that want the ALPA vote- so they can vote no and the drive will be over with no more mutterings of ALPA.

I hate to hear this as I firmly believe that the survival of ASA with any improvements in work conditions/rules is contingent on the unionization of SkyWest. No SkyWest ALPA= no real progress for the regional industry.

 

[SuperKooter]

Given the amount of time it's taking to get the desired number of cards back, I'd have to say "NOT TOO GOOD!".

I've spoken to many pilots that want the ALPA vote- so they can vote no and the drive will be over with no more mutterings of ALPA.

I hate to hear this as I firmly believe that the survival of ASA with any improvements in work conditions/rules is contingent on the unionization of SkyWest. No SkyWest ALPA= no real progress for the regional industry.

And there you have it folks, people want skywest to get Alpa for 1 reason only and that is to weaken skywests ability to bid on future flying.

 

[HelloNewman]

Given the amount of time it's taking to get the desired number of cards back, I'd have to say "NOT TOO GOOD!".

I've spoken to many pilots that want the ALPA vote- so they can vote no and the drive will be over with no more mutterings of ALPA.

I hate to hear this as I firmly believe that the survival of ASA with any improvements in work conditions/rules is contingent on the unionization of SkyWest. No SkyWest ALPA= no real progress for the regional industry.

This is also what I have heard. They have barely got enough cards back to hold a vote. They may not even have enough to hold a vote. Whatever the case may be they should just hold an election and get it over with. It will either pass or it will not. If it does not pass I sure hope we are simply left alone from here on out. I am sure all these union rumblings every couple years get old for all pilot groups. I wonder if ALPA is going to send us some of the infamous "spouse letters" from the last drive; lol I hope they do. That would really seal the fate of this union drive. They have been collecting cards since late september early october. Those who want the union will fill out their card ASAP. As of yet no where near a majority has sent their cards in. Translation: WE DON'T WANT A UNION HERE, GO AWAY! There it has been said. I will gladly eat my words if I am proven wrong by an election that is won by the union. ALPA should really save their money and just hold an election. Rhetoric on either side will change no ones mind. Lets just have it out and see what the majority wants.

 

[Nightrain_080]

The Majority or true value pilots desire to leave future SkyWest pilots with some tools (ALPA or something besides SAPA) even if they aren't here in 5 years. Too many new hires that want to top out at $94.00 /hr. {see Sad, (unless your a sim guy)}. Unions aren't going to solve everything but I guess if want your status quo, then keep your box corked unless you have a better solution to make the future brighter at the regional level.

 

[HelloNewman]

The Majority or true value pilots desire to leave future SkyWest pilots with some tools (ALPA or something besides SAPA) even if they aren't here in 5 years. Too many new hires that want to top out at $94.00 /hr. {see Sad, (unless your a sim guy)}. Unions aren't going to solve everything but I guess if want your status quo, then keep your box corked unless you have a better solution to make the future brighter at the regional level.

We became one step closer to a brighter future with the voting in of the seperate payscales. Next step is more pay increases/COLA. We of course must wait to see what the future holds. No matter what happens we need no union to guide us there. I believe we have more job security without one. This is why I believe we will never vote one in. It's actually more or less punishment to future generations to vote in a union then leave. You leave them stuck with the bill. Why aren't they holding an election???

 

[embdrvr]

We became one step closer to a brighter future with the voting in of the seperate payscales. Next step is more pay increases/COLA.

When did SkyWest get separate payscales?
All I heard about was a BOHICA override that won't amount to much of anything, (3-4% maybe).

How long was that 18 month TA expired for before you managed to get the wonderful new pay package?

I'd call you a tool but that would be insulting to the tools. You're ignorance is staggeringly beyond comprehension. What makes you think you'll see COLA or a pay increase before 2010 or later?

The facts and history all indicate that you will be screwed for the next four years. What's going to change? You and 57% of the 70% that voted just screwed the pooch. The same people that predicted the future when the 50-99 seat deal came around tried to tell you fukkers but you can't seem to listen.

How's ORD treating you a$$wipe? Penalty box helping that 2nd year FO pay?

 

[HelloNewman]

When did SkyWest get separate payscales?
All I heard about was a BOHICA override that won't amount to much of anything, (3-4% maybe).

How long was that 18 month TA expired for before you managed to get the wonderful new pay package?

I'd call you a tool but that would be insulting to the tools. You're ignorance is staggeringly beyond comprehension. What makes you think you'll see COLA or a pay increase before 2010 or later?

The facts and history all indicate that you will be screwed for the next four years. What's going to change? You and 57% of the 70% that voted just screwed the pooch. The same people that predicted the future when the 50-99 seat deal came around tried to tell you fukkers but you can't seem to listen.

How's ORD treating you a$$wipe? Penalty box helping that 2nd year FO pay?

Actually suprisingly enough that TA was almost expired as long as the union chatter has been going on. Wouldn't you say that is an awful long time of lots of talk and not much action? Oh sure there are some BBQs etc. but come on this talk has been going on since around april or may of 2005. If 30% of the pilots didn't even vote on a pay scale what makes you think a union drive will succeed? BTW about the same number plus or minus a few percent have filled out their cards. That is all they have to show after 18 months+ of hardcore campaigning.

You are correct it is an override not a seperate payscale. It is not a BOHICA however. The majority voted it in of their own free will. BTW when you fly the 700/900 it is in fact a seperate payscale. You get paid more to fly the 70/90(same number of seats BTW) therefore it is a seperate payscale when it is flown which is all that really matters. Being dual qualified makes us more efficent therefore more competitive.

We will see COLA, another raise before 2010 for a couple of reasons. One SGU does not want a union as much as the pilot group does not want one. Two ASA and a couple other groups will probably have a contract long before then thus giving us more leverage. Three they will see in the long run that keeping us happy keeps a union away and thus a COLA/extra payraise is just what the doctor ordered.

The penalty box is great for extra pay. Ive gotten hours of Appendix D time this year.

 

[goahead]

Two ASA and a couple other groups will probably have a contract long before then thus giving us more leverage.

So we will do all the work to get a great contract and pansies like you will say that you got a good deal because you didn't have a union, right?