Delta receives approval to exceed pilot flight time limits.

[brainhurts]

DELTA SNEAKS IN FLIGHT TIMES CHANGES! PRICELESS!
John Q:
Let me ask you this. When you spent 18 hours on a plane, did you have a separate crew rest facility with two business class seats, two horizontal bunks, separate reading lights, curtains, a sink, and a dumb waiter?
We at DAL have ALL these things. I can assure you that the FOUR pilots (two of whom are always sleeping/on break) flying this leg are far more rested than any JB guy flying transcon turns, or any pilot flying redeyes in the middle of the night.
Holy Crap,
What a twist. Nice copywrite though. John, is there enough privacy to whack off?

 

[FDJ2]

Pot meet kettle,

- that's General kettle to you.

Not quite, but nice try.

Pilot unions "are very upset with the FAA" because there was no opportunity to formally comment on the decision, said Don Wykoff, a Delta captain and spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association. The union "would have liked to have a second opinion" from another expert, he said.

Captain Wykoff, who heads the union's group analyzing flight time issues, said that while the FAA informed pilots about the change it didn't do enough to seek meaningful input from them. As carriers enter new territory with flights longer than 16 hours, he said, pilots should be given "more of an opportunity for dialogue."


Special overhead sleeping berths are available to provide rest for pilots and flight attendants.


The moves comes after years of work by the FAA and pilot groups to create a uniform set of enhanced maintenance, operational and equipment requirements for all jetliners flying long-distance routes. Those rules are expected to become final around the end of the year.

 

[brainhurts]

John Q:
"We at DAL have ALL these things."
I just like the way this sounded

 

[JohnQ]

DELTA SNEAKS IN FLIGHT TIMES CHANGES! PRICELESS!
John Q:
Let me ask you this. When you spent 18 hours on a plane, did you have a separate crew rest facility with two business class seats, two horizontal bunks, separate reading lights, curtains, a sink, and a dumb waiter?
We at DAL have ALL these things. I can assure you that the FOUR pilots (two of whom are always sleeping/on break) flying this leg are far more rested than any JB guy flying transcon turns, or any pilot flying redeyes in the middle of the night.
Holy Crap,
What a twist. Nice copywrite though. John, is there enough privacy to whack off?

Well I don't fly the 777, but when you are all alone on your break flying to Europe...who knows what goes on?

Look, there are two sides to this, and I am not even saying that the right decision is being made here. But you have to look at all sides. Believe it or not, I initially was somewhat sympathetic to the JB study, though I am not so much now. I can assure you that our safety and crew rest committees are all over this. Much goes on behind the scenes that speculators on anonymous message boards...hey they would be me!...are unaware of.

 

[mooney flier]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the L-1011 fly ATL-HNL and FRA-DFW with just the standard crew, Capt., F/O, & S/O ?

 

[PastV1]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the L-1011 fly ATL-HNL and FRA-DFW with just the standard crew, Capt., F/O, & S/O ?

A 3 holer (Pilot, Co-pilot and Flight engineer) has 12 hr flt time limit while the 2 man crew has 8 hours unless a reserve pilot is put on board.

Past....

 

[Blue Dude]

A 3 holer (Pilot, Co-pilot and Flight engineer) has 12 hr flt time limit while the 2 man crew has 8 hours unless a reserve pilot is put on board.

Yes, because as we all know, *three* people all working for 12 hrs straight is just as safe as *two* people both working for 8 hrs straight. Makes perfect sense.

I'm just LMAO at this particular turn-around. This isn't a limited volunteer study of a few flights under strictly controlled circumstances. It's being approved for every single flight on this route, whether the pilots want to or not. For all the protesting done on how 8 hrs is the no-kidding, ultimate, drop dead limit on the absolute far edges of flight time safely allowed per pilot, now we hear that under certain circumstances 8 1/2 hrs might be OK. Hypocrites, the lot of you. You have no leg to stand on, period.

 

[Huck]

Not that I'm for it, but 17-hour legs equals about 4 legs a month....

 

[Caveman]

It's not whether or not this is a good idea. Intelligent folks can agree to disagree. What's priceless is watching these guys trying to backpedal while eating a truckload of crow.

 

[Andy]

It's being approved for every single flight on this route, whether the pilots want to or not.

Unless the DALPA contract has been voided, there is verbiage in the contract that limits flight and duty times. The company will need to negotiate this with the union.
JUST SAY NO! :angryfire

 

[Rogue5]

Dear Ms. Lee

Jen Lee,

You never cease to amaze me.

Hugs & Kisses,

R5

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Unless the DALPA contract has been voided, there is verbiage in the contract that limits flight and duty times. The company will need to negotiate this with the union.
JUST SAY NO! :angryfire

They better get at least triple time for it.

 

[michael707767]

Put a fifth pilot on the friggin' flight. I can't believe that DALPA and ALPA are going to allow this.
What's next - an 8 1/2 nonstop without augmentation?
If DALPA agrees to this, the Pandora's Box will have been opened, never to be closed again.

I agree. Put on the fifth pilot. I would even support creating a cruise pilot position for this, a new hire trained to sit in the seat and answer the radios and moniter the instruments for a couple of hours to get the other pilots below 8 hours of flying.

 

[Pat Fabin]

I am suprised to see this....I'm not familiar enough with that part of our contract though...guess we'll see what happens. With the company shifting to a lot of ultra-long-haul flying we should pay more attention. Meanwhile, throw on the 5th pilot!

General, I love ya but quit backpedalling!

 

[General Lee]

Yes, because as we all know, *three* people all working for 12 hrs straight is just as safe as *two* people both working for 8 hrs straight. Makes perfect sense.

I'm just LMAO at this particular turn-around. This isn't a limited volunteer study of a few flights under strictly controlled circumstances. It's being approved for every single flight on this route, whether the pilots want to or not. For all the protesting done on how 8 hrs is the no-kidding, ultimate, drop dead limit on the absolute far edges of flight time safely allowed per pilot, now we hear that under certain circumstances 8 1/2 hrs might be OK. Hypocrites, the lot of you. You have no leg to stand on, period.

The difference is that we did NOT want this change, and you guys do want your change. Also, the FAA agreed to this, whereas your company broke FARs. Your legs were sheered off, and ours are just sprained.

And, ask your own company to provide the data on your transcon turns and the other tests they did with early departures from JFK and a day sleep in OAK or other West Coast cities. Those tests were even worse, according to my JB friend. Maybe you should get crew rest facilities for your A320s?


Bye Bye--General Lee