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Delta seniority number for Comair pilots
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WateryGrave
Blue Koolaid Drinker
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- Apr 28, 2005
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HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn that was funny... my stomach hurts. Next
dollacrackho
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2004
- Posts
- 558
Just a truck load of sarcasm with that post.
737 Pylt
Um....Floats anyone??
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~~~^~~~
Well-known member
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- Dec 21, 2001
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- 6,137
I think it unlikely, but ALPA has been talking "operational integration" in the last week.
See my other post on ASA negotiations. ALPA is finding itself seriously behind the power curve as events unfold in the RJDC litigation exactly as the Plaintiff's forecast in writing. That might be a way to rid themselves of the problem. Delta's pay rates to operate RJ's are much lower than Comair's (providing economic justification). Also, swallowing the COmair pilots might provide a bit of a poision pill for potential predators who would want to purchase Delta. American, US Air, United and Northwest have seniority list pilots flying RJ's while holding mainline seniority numbers. The precedent has been made and ALPA could use this as the foundation for all Delta flying being performed by Delta pilots.
I will not say that it is impossible for a Comair pilot to come out of this with a Delta number. In fact, it makes logical sense. But wow, what a weird turn of events that would be.
See my other post on ASA negotiations. ALPA is finding itself seriously behind the power curve as events unfold in the RJDC litigation exactly as the Plaintiff's forecast in writing. That might be a way to rid themselves of the problem. Delta's pay rates to operate RJ's are much lower than Comair's (providing economic justification). Also, swallowing the COmair pilots might provide a bit of a poision pill for potential predators who would want to purchase Delta. American, US Air, United and Northwest have seniority list pilots flying RJ's while holding mainline seniority numbers. The precedent has been made and ALPA could use this as the foundation for all Delta flying being performed by Delta pilots.
I will not say that it is impossible for a Comair pilot to come out of this with a Delta number. In fact, it makes logical sense. But wow, what a weird turn of events that would be.
That's the way it should be. Those furloughed newbies at AA could teach those 9 year FO's how its done in the world of scheduled airline flying. Nevermind the fact that many of them had never done any mission such as that before.
HA25
Tokyo Tokyo!
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2001
- Posts
- 3,643
Read up on something called ONEALPA that ASA and Comair launched in the middle of DALPA's section 6 for contract 2000.. it was a total fiasco. Some of the senior guys at ASA and Comair actually demanded a DOH seniority integration with DAL. One day a $80K/yr RJ captain, the next day a $250K/yr 777.. 
There is now likely no love loss between Mainline and Regionals.
There is now likely no love loss between Mainline and Regionals.
Standby for Dan Ford or his little yes-man Joe Merchant to come by and deny that that ever took place.
Caveman
Grandpa
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 1,580
Read up on something called ONEALPA that ASA and Comair launched in the middle of DALPA's section 6 for contract 2000.. it was a total fiasco. Some of the senior guys at ASA and Comair actually demanded a DOH seniority integration with DAL. One day a $80K/yr RJ captain, the next day a $250K/yr 777..
There is now likely no love loss between Mainline and Regionals.
There was never any official speculation, request, query or demand from either the ASA or CMR MEC regarding a DOH integration. Just because somebody heard that somebody had a guy on their jumpseat that was related to a girl that married a guy whose cousin worked the ramp at CVG and overheard a Comair Captain talking about it doesn't mean squat. It never happened. Quit spreading BS.
Uncle Bunkle
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- 1,232
Slightly better odds than OJ finding the "real" killer.
bvt1151
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Read up on something called ONEALPA that ASA and Comair launched in the middle of DALPA's section 6 for contract 2000.. it was a total fiasco. Some of the senior guys at ASA and Comair actually demanded a DOH seniority integration with DAL. One day a $80K/yr RJ captain, the next day a $250K/yr 777..
I heard there were a few Delta guys who voted for Nader. Doesn't mean he was going to be president.
Be careful who you use as reference to a pilot groups thoughts. "Some of the senior guys" is a pretty weak place to start an argument.
80for80
global synchronizer
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2003
- Posts
- 313
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=491
Here's what they were saying about it back in 2000.
Here's what they were saying about it back in 2000.
Last edited:
HA25
Tokyo Tokyo!
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2001
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- 3,643
Well then, there you have it. Based on my reading of those discussion between DAL and ASA/Comair, I guess I owe an apology to anyone I've offended with my prior comments herein.
80for80
global synchronizer
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2003
- Posts
- 313
Good exerpts from 2000.
Just a reminder to everyone holding a career position better than someone elses. You are surrounded by assasins who will go to great extremes (including a court room) to get what you have, deserving, or not. Leap frogging to a seat or seniority position that they somehow have been unable to secure on their own. They stand nothing to lose, and everything to gain by employing such tactics.............. Pretty cool huh?
What career at DAL? Many of the pilots at the commuters don't meet Delta's (lowered) standards (e.g. college, Baptist, no Corvette <g> ), would Delta have to take every commuter pilot that walked through the door under your imaginary plan? Somehow I don't think that's going to happen.
Apply, interview and come in through the front door...
Having just spoken with a Delta 737 captain. To quote him verbatim: "They'll have to pry the gun away from my cold, dead hand before I let any regional pilot jump ahead of me in line after how hard I have worked to get here!"
I acknowledge that many of the regional pilots are highly skilled and professional, but do they really think Delta pilots are going to stand by and allow their list to be "infiltrated" by so-called "backdoor bandits" - quoting yet another Delta pilot. My bet is that the Delta pilots will quit ALPA before they allow that to happen.
Where do you put the military guy with 5000 heavy or jet hours, or someone leaving TWA, for example, with UMPTEENTHOUSAND jet hours?
No one in their right minds would put them below a new ERAU grad at the bottom of a stapled list. Like it or not, DAL, UAL, AA are looking for these people first and foremost. I know , I work with Recruitment occasionally. We'll take 757 PIC over EMB-120 P2 anytime. Fact: they're less likely to have a washout. Have a look at our last 3 year's hiring stats/ fails...what background/experience did they have? This is an extremely expensive business....The fact is, the military/other big jet guys& gals are a sure bet. No explaining to have to do to the Chief Pilot.....
The difficult thing is how to change from the present system to a One-List system. Pilots who have flown for the subsidiary for a long time might find it hard to accept that they'll join the tail end of the major's seniority list, while major's pilots find it unacceptable to have anyone jump ahead of them.
Recently, there was an ASA-type on the jump seat. There was polite discussion on the topic. Then a statement was made that he didn't like. We said (just to see his reaction) that many of the senior Delta F/O's may want to hop into the left seat of the RJ, thereby displacing some ASA/Comair Capt's down to the Brasilia, and the Brasilia Capt's down to the RJ F/O, etc. His response? "You can't do that!" Boy, he was beet-red with anger. Apparently it's only a good deal if it works their way. Funny thing, though. Before the ASA/Comair demand came about, I might have entertained the idea of some restricted type of farm program. Now? I don't even want to bring up the subject until after C2K has been completed. I simply won't allow the distraction; can't be bothered with it for the moment. They have, for the moment at least, lost an excellent, and very large ally.
You are asking DAL to hire you without the interview, physical and the rest of the dog and pony show required of the thousands of other applicants. Your imaginary "staple job" would give away the seniority of thousands of Delta pilots hired legitimately in the future. Delta has learned bitter lessons about the "I got mine, pull the ladder up, it doesn't affect me" attitude from the B-scale and the furlough. Once your staple job is done, your or your colleagues will sue to get your commuter date of hire at DAL, it's been done before, regular as clockwork.
If you're so sure you meet the standards, get an interview, get hired and staple yourself to the bottom of the DAL list like everyone else instead of demanding a handout...
How would you justify the windfall for the others near the bottom of the seniority lists at comair and asa? A Delta seniority number with 1000 hrs TT? Delta is hiring 75-80 pilots a month. In less than 3 years virtually every Comair/asa dude could be there, right?
Looking past my nose now, with hiring at most majors exceeding 75/month, it doesn't matter who you do or do not know,... be patient. Instead of predicting 130$/777 captain jobs. The ME generation in you is screaming loud and clear.
One BIG factor that may throw a wrench into management's plans to undermine mainline contracts with RJ's is a lack of airspace. Think it isn't a problem? Go visit your nearest ARTCC on a wx-cluttered day; they will show you that the RJ's are now causing delays to 777s et al, by occupying airspace previously unused by commuters.
30 pax going 200 miles delay and take a slot for 300 pax going 6000 miles. It makes no sense...
That same RJ, delayed on a gate, delivers 30 pax to spend money in the Terminal franchises; the same gate could deliver 300 spenders.....
The pilot unions, the ATC union, and the airport operators need to get together to stop this nonsense, and ensure that growth continues at the majors, thus providing you, Deltaconnector, with your hard-worked for big-jet career.
Yes, I know that airline managers say a lot of major growth is fuelled by RJ feed.....
I take it with a pinch of salt. Their big prize is destroying our contracts, and they would be prepared to subsidize RJ's at low altitude to achieve that , if necessary.
The RJ's are ONLY profitable because of lower pay scales.....
Just a reminder to everyone holding a career position better than someone elses. You are surrounded by assasins who will go to great extremes (including a court room) to get what you have, deserving, or not. Leap frogging to a seat or seniority position that they somehow have been unable to secure on their own. They stand nothing to lose, and everything to gain by employing such tactics.............. Pretty cool huh?
What career at DAL? Many of the pilots at the commuters don't meet Delta's (lowered) standards (e.g. college, Baptist, no Corvette <g> ), would Delta have to take every commuter pilot that walked through the door under your imaginary plan? Somehow I don't think that's going to happen.
Apply, interview and come in through the front door...
Having just spoken with a Delta 737 captain. To quote him verbatim: "They'll have to pry the gun away from my cold, dead hand before I let any regional pilot jump ahead of me in line after how hard I have worked to get here!"
I acknowledge that many of the regional pilots are highly skilled and professional, but do they really think Delta pilots are going to stand by and allow their list to be "infiltrated" by so-called "backdoor bandits" - quoting yet another Delta pilot. My bet is that the Delta pilots will quit ALPA before they allow that to happen.
Where do you put the military guy with 5000 heavy or jet hours, or someone leaving TWA, for example, with UMPTEENTHOUSAND jet hours?
No one in their right minds would put them below a new ERAU grad at the bottom of a stapled list. Like it or not, DAL, UAL, AA are looking for these people first and foremost. I know , I work with Recruitment occasionally. We'll take 757 PIC over EMB-120 P2 anytime. Fact: they're less likely to have a washout. Have a look at our last 3 year's hiring stats/ fails...what background/experience did they have? This is an extremely expensive business....The fact is, the military/other big jet guys& gals are a sure bet. No explaining to have to do to the Chief Pilot.....
The difficult thing is how to change from the present system to a One-List system. Pilots who have flown for the subsidiary for a long time might find it hard to accept that they'll join the tail end of the major's seniority list, while major's pilots find it unacceptable to have anyone jump ahead of them.
Recently, there was an ASA-type on the jump seat. There was polite discussion on the topic. Then a statement was made that he didn't like. We said (just to see his reaction) that many of the senior Delta F/O's may want to hop into the left seat of the RJ, thereby displacing some ASA/Comair Capt's down to the Brasilia, and the Brasilia Capt's down to the RJ F/O, etc. His response? "You can't do that!" Boy, he was beet-red with anger. Apparently it's only a good deal if it works their way. Funny thing, though. Before the ASA/Comair demand came about, I might have entertained the idea of some restricted type of farm program. Now? I don't even want to bring up the subject until after C2K has been completed. I simply won't allow the distraction; can't be bothered with it for the moment. They have, for the moment at least, lost an excellent, and very large ally.
You are asking DAL to hire you without the interview, physical and the rest of the dog and pony show required of the thousands of other applicants. Your imaginary "staple job" would give away the seniority of thousands of Delta pilots hired legitimately in the future. Delta has learned bitter lessons about the "I got mine, pull the ladder up, it doesn't affect me" attitude from the B-scale and the furlough. Once your staple job is done, your or your colleagues will sue to get your commuter date of hire at DAL, it's been done before, regular as clockwork.
If you're so sure you meet the standards, get an interview, get hired and staple yourself to the bottom of the DAL list like everyone else instead of demanding a handout...
How would you justify the windfall for the others near the bottom of the seniority lists at comair and asa? A Delta seniority number with 1000 hrs TT? Delta is hiring 75-80 pilots a month. In less than 3 years virtually every Comair/asa dude could be there, right?
Looking past my nose now, with hiring at most majors exceeding 75/month, it doesn't matter who you do or do not know,... be patient. Instead of predicting 130$/777 captain jobs. The ME generation in you is screaming loud and clear.
One BIG factor that may throw a wrench into management's plans to undermine mainline contracts with RJ's is a lack of airspace. Think it isn't a problem? Go visit your nearest ARTCC on a wx-cluttered day; they will show you that the RJ's are now causing delays to 777s et al, by occupying airspace previously unused by commuters.
30 pax going 200 miles delay and take a slot for 300 pax going 6000 miles. It makes no sense...
That same RJ, delayed on a gate, delivers 30 pax to spend money in the Terminal franchises; the same gate could deliver 300 spenders.....
The pilot unions, the ATC union, and the airport operators need to get together to stop this nonsense, and ensure that growth continues at the majors, thus providing you, Deltaconnector, with your hard-worked for big-jet career.
Yes, I know that airline managers say a lot of major growth is fuelled by RJ feed.....
I take it with a pinch of salt. Their big prize is destroying our contracts, and they would be prepared to subsidize RJ's at low altitude to achieve that , if necessary.
The RJ's are ONLY profitable because of lower pay scales.....
Last edited:
80for80
global synchronizer
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2003
- Posts
- 313
HA25
Tokyo Tokyo!
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2001
- Posts
- 3,643
Well, UPS just went down a notch in my book! I would have thought having an honorable discharge on your DD214 would be something UPS would expect from a "Flight Officer"
She apparently works under a different name I'm told.
Last edited:
80for80
global synchronizer
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2003
- Posts
- 313
YourPilotFriend
YourPilotFriend
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2005
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