Imams vs. US Airways

[ils2minimums]

std stands for supersonic transgalactic deathship which is highly classified. (Thats sarcasm: http://www.sarcasmsociety.com/howtobesarcastic/ ) Actually I keep my MWS to myself because if I posted them, you would find out I am MANGUM! using 2 screennames so I can back myself up when I get in a heated debate (again--sarcasm)



I'm out.

Dude, that is just about the funniest thing I've read since joining FI...
:beer:

 

[brainhurts]

I am funny.

 

[Flys4Fun]

 

[brainhurts]

OUTSTANDING!!! Codone, you have got to check this out!!! Now thats funnyness we can all hug!!!

 

[brainhurts]

I'm not sure what this means... It's the equivalent of saying "as an ice dancer, I'm well aware of intransitive verbs"...

As a supersonic transgalactic deathship pilot, I am eminately qualified to enforce the comma rules.

 

[Guitar rocker]

I didn't know it.

How could you NOT know it? Thats what was reported. Now then, I suppose YOU would have no problem letting these folks get on your plane with this erratic behavior not to mention that others were uncomfortable with it too?

By TWA
"No, my point goes to the root of this issue which is what constitutes suspicious behavior. Simply praying does not. Ignorant people may not recognize normal prayer and thus report it as "suspicious" behavior. That's when an informed employee surveys the situation and makes a decision, and hopefully the right one."

Just curiuous, how do you define what "normal" prayer IS? Are there TSA or airport employess that are well versed in Imams type of prayers that we should refer to?

By TWA Dude
True, it would be in their own self-interest to not draw attention to themselves but they didn't do anything wrong and if I were in charge I'd be inclined to tell the complaintant to relax or get off him/herself.

But above, you said that you would have an informed employee make that decision, so which is it?


By TWA Dude
What irks me about your logic is that you something think that your beliefs supercede US law, ie, because you believe Muslims are bad people they deserve to be kicked off airplanes. You feed into their intolerance with your own.

Why do you say this? Nobody is saying that some one person on a US airliner who happens to be a Muslim should be kicked off. We are referring to the actions of those who just so happen to be Muslim in this case.

Dude, I cant help but wonder what YOU would have done if these folks showed up to get on your aircraft a week after 9/11. I'll bet you would have questioned it immediately....but not today (a liberal just flowing with the breeze). Those folks at the ACLU got you, didnt they?

 

[regionaltard]

For the next season of Survivor maybe they could work TWA Dude trying to use his ACLU membership card for safe passage out of Baghdad into the plot.

 

[TWA Dude]

How could you NOT know it? Thats what was reported.

*chuckle, chuckle* You (of all people) trust the media to get the facts straight? When I got an email from the ALPA Security folks that's when felt informed.

Now then, I suppose YOU would have no problem letting these folks get on your plane with this erratic behavior not to mention that others were uncomfortable with it too?

I guess it was too subtle for you to notice that once the facts were confirmed I stopped arguing about this case.

Just curiuous, how do you define what "normal" prayer IS?

An orthodox Jew will don the prayer shawl (tallit) and phylacteries (tefillin) and sway up/down and back/forth while facing East (towards Jerusalem). A Muslim will lay a prayer rug and frequently prostrate himself while facing East (towards Mecca).

Are there TSA or airport employess that are well versed in Imams type of prayers that we should refer to?

I don't know about TSA training but I'd have so say that general airport employees are probably not so well versed.

But above, you said that you would have an informed employee make that decision, so which is it?

You have a valid point. Afterall, orthodox Jews have been mistaken as Muslims by many. It's sad and funny at the same time. Ideally, the captain and CRO (Complaint Resolution Officer, or equivalent, for your airline) should be able to ascertain whether the behavior is normal or suspicious. It's the airline's job to give its employees the necessary tools to do this. Perhaps we'll see this; perhaps not.

Why do you say this? Nobody is saying that some one person on a US airliner who happens to be a Muslim should be kicked off. We are referring to the actions of those who just so happen to be Muslim in this case.

That's not how I read most of the vitriolic postings above. I read more "better safe than sorry" arguments and that's what got me steamed.

Dude, I cant help but wonder what YOU would have done if these folks showed up to get on your aircraft a week after 9/11.

Interesting point, but the 9/11 terrorists deliberately tried not to draw attention to themselves.

I'll bet you would have questioned it immediately....but not today (a liberal just flowing with the breeze).

Based on what we know are the facts, I would've had no choice but question it. As part of a crew the captain must address the concerns of the cabin attendants.

Those folks at the ACLU got you, didnt they?

It's the other way around.

 

[codeone]

OUTSTANDING!!! Codone, you have got to check this out!!! Now thats funnyness we can all hug!!!

That is funny and probably a tad safer too.

 

[ultrarunner]

Profile till it hurts. Call your senator, call your congressperson....

...and tell them you support racial and ethinic profiling...

Jessie and Al can kiss my white A$$...


Remember, one of our civil rights is to be safe in our own friggin country.

'nuff said!

 

[zman]

Hang Them Publicly.

Behead them on Television.

Eradicate them like the Vermin that they are.

Make them into Lamp-Shades and Dog Food...


YKW

Its Americans like you that give the rest of Americans a bad name. Its amazing how uneducated you ignorant ass#holes can be. Especially with the comments of when you saw a "jew praying in the corner and felt better that he was a jew". Sometimes its seriously shocking the crap you read in flightinfo. I would love for you guys to say this ******************** out loud infront of a group of people. Then watch you lose your jobs as well as be brought upon with hate crimes.

 

[stonewall]

Then watch you lose your jobs as well as be brought upon with hate crimes

.

Huh? Hate crimes? I can go anywhere in this country, stand on a street corner, and call someone a name. You really think people should lose jobs and be jailed for voicing opinions? Man, and idiots like you call republicans "fascists." Jeez.

 

[brainhurts]

ZMAN can't be a flamer, his credentials speak for themselves.

 

[Guitar rocker]

*chuckle, chuckle* You (of all people) trust the media to get the facts straight? When I got an email from the ALPA Security folks that's when felt informed.I guess it was too subtle for you to notice that once the facts were confirmed I stopped arguing about this case.

Dude, remind me again why it was that you were telling us that you would have told the "complaintants to get over themselves" if you yourself didnt even know the facts of this situation? Dont point your finger in our faces and tell us that we are all over reacting to some prayers here when you dont know what your talking about to begin with.

 

[TWA Dude]

Dude, remind me again why it was that you were telling us that you would have told the "complaintants to get over themselves" if you yourself didnt even know the facts of this situation?

I normally don't do other people's research for them but in this case I'll indulge you. If you'll be so kind as to look at the first page, first posting of this thread you'll see a link to a news story. Read that story. Read my response to that story at post #11. I'm allowed to do that. If no other official details had been released I would've kept to my original argument.

 

[ils2minimums]

Was it a probe? Were these clowns testing our security and our will, or were they just simply being dou(hebags to set themselves up for a lawsuit against USAir?

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20061128-122902-7522r.htm

 

[stonewall]

Why isn't anyone reporting about what went on that "conference?" I'd have liked to be a fly on the wall at that one.

 

[Lampshade]

Why isn't anyone reporting about what went on that "conference?" I'd have liked to be a fly on the wall at that one.

...1+

 

[Guitar rocker]

I normally don't do other people's research for them but in this case I'll indulge you. If you'll be so kind as to look at the first page, first posting of this thread you'll see a link to a news story. Read that story. Read my response to that story at post #11. I'm allowed to do that. If no other official details had been released I would've kept to my original argument.

OK, you are allowed to do that. Not a problem.

 

[stupidpilot]

End of story? I don't think so. Your smug sanctimonious comments in this thread may be dismissed by some, but I knew the information you quoted above several days ago, and it was the basis for my belief that there was more to the situation than met the eye. You wagged a pretty big finger and let the self-righteous blathering freely fly before you took the time to acquaint yourself with the rest of the story, and now you just want to call "end of story"? You were quick to condemn the crew for "over reacting" and you were even quicker to come to the defense of the imams before you knew what the facts were. You were quick to call someone ignorant for not being able to differentiate between normal prayer and "suspicious" behavior. You stated that my view of erring on the safe side violates US law, yet you sight no statutes or case law to prove it, and then seem you expect me to just accept it because YOU said it? You say that I feed into their intolerence with my own? WTF does that mean, dude? Have you ever heard anyone outside of San Francisco or an ACLU meeting talk that way?

You're a pilot, not a lawyer. Your lectures on the subject of law are comical. You talk in circles and keep repeating yourself under the mistaken impression that if you keep saying it, it'll be accepted as fact... I've read your crap on this board and another one, and the common themes are that you're constantly ending up on the left side of most arguments and you're almost always being barraged with attacks against your views... Now either EVERYONE ELSE is wrong and you're right, or you should cozy up to the fact that besides being an annoying and condescending liberal blow-hard, you're not NEARLY as smart as you think you are...

I think that's a little harsh. He got some more info and admitted he was wrong. I think you could give him a little credit for at least that. It is funny though. Most die-hard liberals would defend their position regardless of the evidence presented.

 

[JAM-BRO]

Check this BS...

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/848991.html

Are they high!!!

 

[brainhurts]

The six imams removed from a US Airways flight last week have apparently adopted my suggestion that if they really want to protest the airline, instead of boycotting US Airways, they should start flying it frequently.
The spokesman for the imams — or as I believe it's phrased in their culture, "designated liar" — Omar Shahin, staged a protest at Reagan Washington National Airport on Monday, after which, according to The Associated Press, "he and other religious leaders boarded a US Airways flight to demonstrate their determination to continue praying and flying."
The original six imams removed from the flight last week first attracted attention when they said prayers to Allah on traditional Muslim prayer rugs in the boarding area. After boarding, they changed seats, spreading themselves throughout the plane. They were also overheard spouting anti-American rhetoric. Witnesses said the six men appeared to be either Islamic fanatics or U.S. Army chaplains on leave from Guantanamo.
Following the lead of FEMA in keeping Americans safe, the Homeland Security Department's Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties is investigating the removal of the imams from the US Airways flight. (Talk about coincidences — I'm currently investigating the removal of the Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties from the Department of Homeland Security!)
Imam spokesman Shahin is a great example of why airport security ought to be profiling Arabs. Shahin's predecessor at the Islamic Center in Tucson was Osama bin Laden's financier and head of logistics — until he was arrested in Saudi Arabia in 2002.
Instead of aggressively distinguishing himself from his terrorist predecessor, judging by news reports, Shahin spent the five years after 9/11 denying that Muslims were behind the attacks and complaining of phony anti-Islamic "hate crimes" — as opposed to the pro-Islamic hate crimes he presumably endorses. In 2003, for example, Shahin alleged that a woman in Arizona had thrown shoes at children at the mosque.
This is the most transparent hoax I've heard since, "If I did it, here's how I would have done it." This is like the joke about a speaker at an American communist rally opening with: "Workers and peasants of Brooklyn!" Shahin has so little insight into this country, he can't even invent a believable hate crime.
It's Arabs who have a thing about shoes being a sign of disrespect, not Americans. When Iraqis toppled the statue of Saddam Hussein, the crowd immediately pelted it with shoes. Saddam installed a mosaic of the first president Bush's face on the ground floor of his palace so that visitors would be forced to disrespect Bush by walking on his visage in their shoes.
Shahin himself couldn't get away from this pan-Arabic shoe fetish, adding: "The incidents of Muslims being attacked kind of shocked me in my shoes." Note to imams trying to fabricate hate crimes against Muslims: Americans don't share your shoe neurosis.
At Reagan National this week, Rabbis joined the Muslims at the prayer protest — though one imagines they did not share this prayer from the Hadith: "And the Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'O Muslim, O servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'" In fairness, they usually save that one for the high holidays, like the "Festival of the Six Dead Jews" or "Honor Killing Week."
Nor this one, also from the Hadith: "The Prophet said: 'The Hour will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them. The Muslims will kill the Jews. Rejoice! Rejoice in Allah's victory!'" (Is it just me, or might some fanatic twist those words into an excuse to kill Jews?)
Also strange was that the NAACP has piped in to complain about racial profiling of Muslims. The only reason Americans feel guilty about "racial profiling" against blacks is because of the history of discrimination against blacks in this country.
What did we do to the Arabs? I believe Americans are the victims in that relationship. After the attacks of 9/11, profiling Muslims is more like profiling the Klan.

COPYRIGHT 2006 ANN COULTER

 

[Falconjet]

Now you see their real agenda. Trying to extort the airport authority for a prayer room.

Nice.

FJ

 

[myq2u]

I personally believe this entire episode was planned and implemented by CAIR. They knew exactly what kind of firestorm it would create, and it did. They win. They are strangling this country with our own political correctness. They know we will sheepishly do whatever we are told to do simply to avoid a lawsuit or hurting someone's feelings...ILStominimims

Agree with you 100%

CAIR is the new ACLU but while ACLU tries to bring this country down from within, CAIR does the same with the help from the outside world.


In the era of mergers, I propose CAIR and ACLU join ranks (did I mention staple?!) and become CALU

» » » Communist Allah Lovers United! « « «​

​

I also wish the captain let the passengers listen to this relaxing music while the imams were being taken off the airplane!

Frank Sinatra song :laugh:

 

[jj21211]

This is interesting...

Kudos to US Airways. Risking fines and a boycott, it did the right thing this week by removing a group of Muslim men from a flight to protect its crew and passengers ... Then there's the case of Muhammed al-Qudhaieen and Hamdan al-Shalawi, two Arizona college students removed from an America West flight after twice trying to open the cockpit. The FBI suspected it was a dry run for the 9/11 hijackings, ... Defending them was none other than the leader of the six imams kicked off the US Airways flight this week. Turns out the students attended the Tucson, Ariz., mosque of Sheikh Omar Shahin, a Jordan native. Shahin has been the protesters' public face, ... In an Arizona Republic interview after 9/11, he acknowledged once supporting Osama bin Laden through his mosque in Tucson. FBI investigators believe bin Laden set up a base in Tucson. Hani Hanjour, who piloted the plane that hit the Pentagon, attended the Tucson mosque along with bin Laden's onetime personal secretary, according to the 9/11 Commission Report. Bin Laden's ex-logistics chief was president of the mosque before Shahin took over. "These people don't continue to come back to Arizona because they like the sunshine or they like the state," said FBI agent Kenneth Williams. "Something was established there, and it's been there for a long time." And Shahin appears to be in the middle of it ...CAIR asserts the imams are peace-loving patriots. "It's inappropriate to treat religious leaders that way," ...

 

[TWA Dude]

CAIR is the new ACLU but while ACLU tries to bring this country down from within, CAIR does the same with the help from the outside world.

Talk about thread creep. Idiotic statements like this about the ACLU show not only a fundamental lack of understanding of what civil liberties are but also what the ACLU actually defends against.

Ben Franklin: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 

[myq2u]

Talk about thread creep. Idiotic statements like this about the ACLU show not only a fundamental lack of understanding of what civil liberties are but also what the ACLU actually defends against.
Ben Franklin: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."


One could also argue that idiotic statements like yours show lack of knowledge on ACLU’s beginnings.

Roger Baldwin: (co-founder of ACLU) I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself ... I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal.

ACLU

 

[TWA Dude]

myq2u: Nice attempt at an argument but it's irrelevant. The ACLU's platform does not include socialism nor communism, nor does mine. Since you obviously know how to do research visit www.ACLU.org yourself and see what they do.

 

[Falconjet]

Yeah right.

FJ

 

[SkiFishFly]

myq2u: Nice attempt at an argument but it's irrelevant. The ACLU's platform does not include socialism nor communism, nor does mine. Since you obviously know how to do research visit www.ACLU.org yourself and see what they do.

Right. That is a great way to educate yourself on the true leanings/intent of an organization. Just go to their own website. There is sure to be nothing but the truth posted there...