Pinch me, I must be dreaming...

[Alamanach]

My dad, who is not a pilot, has somehow got it into his head that he wants to own a plane. He doesn't want anything over the top, just a single-engine piston for occassional trips to Wisconsin or something. (He spent 20 minutes yesterday reading through my C-172 manual). Where he got this idea from, I don't know, but I'm certainly not going to discourage him.

Now, for a little background: I have a lapsed PPL, I live literally down the road from Palwaukee Airport, and I've been trying to figure out for a while now how to scrape together the money to get airborne again. Dad is well-heeled enough that he could probably buy a used plane outright if he really needed to.

But he wants to finance this plane, and he wants to somehow get that money back. He doesn't need to make a profit, but he'd like to find some way (renting the plane out to others or something) to at least break even. I'm looking into this for him, because if he has a way to make his money back, then I have a way to go flying. It's a dream come true.

But what to do with an airplane? I'm thinking a C-172RG would be pretty versatile, and some are available at nice prices. Could this plane be loaned out to one of Palwaukee's many flight schools? Could some aerial photographer rent it? If you had a plane, how would you make money off of it? If anybody has an idea, let me know.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

About the only way to "make" any money off a 172 is to lease it to a flight school as a trainer and a rental.

You will not make money so much as offset some costs. If lucky you may be able to make it pay for it's self.

Of course the down side is that it will be beat silly and abused to no end by students and renters, and you will only be able to fly it for an hour or two here and there in between the rental/instruction schedule. Unless it is a complete turd that nobody wants to rent, then you will have plenty of time to fly it yourself but have no hope of having it pay for it's self.

Afew people do well in this situation, but mostly only the ones that buy it ONLY to make money. I have never seen anybody other than that do very well. Mostly they just end up with a rag that used to be a nice airplane.

 

[pilotyip]

Sure way to go broke

You cannot make money off of an airplane you own; you can only offset some expenses. I own a C-172; during a period when I was between jobs I put my airplane into a lease back at a flight school. They beat the crap out of it, and billed me lots of money for 100 hr inspections, which occurred every 8 weeks. But I got to keep my airplane in a little more than breakeven situation. I would strongly recommend not buying an airplane unless you have $1,000/mo month to contribute toward fixed costs. Then you can fly the airplane for basically gas. Look into the math if you fly 100 hours a year that is $120/mo before gas, you can rent some nice airplanes at $120/hr. Look into a flying club, look into an entry-level airplane like a VFR C-150. Do not buy a RG with a variable pitch prop it will eat you alive.

 

[A1FlyBoy]

go and talk to Ellis at Windy City Flyers @ PWK in the CES builiding 2nd floor. He has several owners aircraft in a leaase back program with his school. You can typically use the plane anytime you want it, the rest of the time it is being flown by students and each time it is, you are paid and the plane gets a work out.

 

[AerroMatt]

If it flies, floats, or f**ks, it is cheaper to rent! :nuts:

 

[Alamanach]

This is good info, guys, thanks.

Do not buy a RG with a variable pitch prop it will eat you alive.

Please explain.

 

[JimG]

If it flies, floats, or f**ks, it is cheaper to rent! :nuts:

yabbut....hookers don't stick around long enough afterwards to scratch your back.

....and there's nothing like owning the keys to your own boat and airplane if you can afford it.

As far as an airplane of that size/catagory.....pulling the gear up isn't going to save you a whole lot of time on an average flight.

Not worth it considering the extra costs and risk associated with Cessna's retractable gear on their singles IMHO.

 

[G2T]

As far as an airplane of that size/catagory.....pulling the gear up isn't going to save you a whole lot of time on an average flight.

Even if you did save a bunch of time by having the gear up, with the legendary Cutlass RG you have to worry every flight whether that gear is going to come back down!

 

[ackattacker]

There is one advantage to having a Gutless RG on leaseback vs. a regular 172... it will be used primarily by Commercial students who need to use a complex airplane vs. PPL students. Hence it well get less beat up. But it will probably also get used less, and cost more in maintenance, and have a lower useful load, and insurance will be triple...

BTW what's a "lapsed PPL"? You mean you need a BFR?

 

[pilotyip]

Cost

alamanach "Do not buy a RG with a variable pitch prop it will eat you alive." I was referring to the same things mentioned here, with an RG and variable pitch prop your insurance will go way up, particularly with a low time PPL, and the maintenance on those systems is something you don't have on the fixed pitch C-172. Here are some numbers, hanger rent $250/mo, and in the Midwest to park your airplane outside is disrespect for your airplane for the annual ice storm may cause major damage to the bird. The annual inspection may average $2500 unless they find something really broke, not to mention keeping those old Cessna avionics up and running. Insurance with just you flying $1,500, if your dad takes instruction in it, the rate will go up even more. Now add the payments on your airplane if you finance the purchase of an airplane. These are expense you have before you fly your first hour. I own a 1978 C-172, last year I spent over $11,000 this is everything and includes fuel, to fly a little more than 150 hours, my airplane is owned free and clear. I am fortunate I have an A&P IA who does my maintenance in trade for dry flight time. If you own an RG add about $6,000 to the $11,000. Now look at your budget and see if you can take $1,500/mo out of it after taxes. Going into an advaned airplane like a RG, unless you have lots of extra income laying around doing nothing, will eat you alive. That is what I was reffering to

 

[Alamanach]

BTW what's a "lapsed PPL"? You mean you need a BFR?

That's what I mean. At the time I was writing I didn't want to get bogged down in tangential minutiae.

 

[JimG]

Even if you did save a bunch of time by having the gear up, with the legendary Cutlass RG you have to worry every flight whether that gear is going to come back down!

That's what I meant by the word "risk" of the landing gear on Cessna singles.

The term I always used was "Icabod Crane landing gear" to describe it.

It's just too awkward and clumsy for me.

 

[G2T]

That's what I meant by the word "risk" of the landing gear on Cessna singles.

The term I always used was "Icabod Crane landing gear" to describe it.

It's just too awkward and clumsy for me.

I agree with you, I've flown 3 different RGs and have had to pump the gear down on all three of them.

 

[Lead Sled]

Here's my take on this...

1. Talk to an aviation insurance guy first off - you don't want to set your sights in anything out of reach. Remember, it's not what's on your license that tells you what you can fly - it's the insurance company.

2. Don't even think about doing a lease back. At the very best, it MIGHT defer (not eliminate) some of your costs for a while; but eventually you've got to pay the piper. Worst case scenario, it can run up yours costs significantly. Basically, all you end up doing is substadising someone else's flying. Don't be seduced by a salesman's or flight school's promises - ask for references. Talk to some of their long-term leaseback owners. My bet is that they won't have any.

3. Analyze your purchase options carefully - I've owned several aircraft over the years and I have money on each and every one of them when it came time to sell.

LS

 

[Kream926]

get a cirrus

 

[Publishers]

Try and find a limited number of users. Secondly, get some other aircraft like a Saratoga, something with simple systems like the people above are indicating. You buy it and they rent it but to very few people. Come up wiht a number where you are getting some cash for ownership and operating but taking the depreciation.

 

[Alamanach]

I'm not familiar with the Saratoga; what advantages does it have?

 

[pilotyip]

The Saratoga has a lot of disadvantages, it is big, burns a lot of gas, and has higher insurance and maintenance costs. It is not an entry level airplane except for someone who has a lot of spare cash sitting around, read Doctor, lawyer.

 

[AC560]

Most people I know who have done leasebacks ended up with higher expenses then what they took in. It is also really rough on the airplane all those touch and goes, quick power cuts/throttle ups, etc. The plane just gets beat to pieces (they call it a rental power setting for a reason).

There is a lot of things to lean that come with owning an airplane it isn't like buying a car and there aren't a lot of manuals to read on how to best do it. Best thing as others have suggested is to join a flying club initially. This will give you the best bang for your buck and you can learn through the club some of the ins and outs of plane ownership.

 

[Junkflyer]

Don't expect to make money on an airplane and don't buy anything but a slow fixed gear single (172 is perfect) Too many people with a few bucks buy more airplane than they can handle. Gain experience then trade up if that's the idea-it wil also save on insurance.