Delta Decesion?

[737 Pylt]

Joey, the good jobs are not on the North end of Concourse C or Concourse D!
Most of us are here to move on! Delta will be hiring soon, maybe you should spend your energy wiser and consider applying so you can get one of those good jobs! I am sure our ALPA brothers there would welcome you with open arms!

Speedtape:
When DL starts hiring (most likely in the spring), you can bet your a$$ the DL group will welcome any ASA pilots to the list with open arms. But I can guarentee you, if JB's name shows up on any list, he won't be invited to the party!

737

 

[~~~^~~~]

Speedtape - you are so right - you nailed the issue with your post.

But if I can vent...If this thread is about the Delta Decision - why can't Delta decide to fly their airplanes their own dang selves and get away from this lowest bidder garbage? After all, DGS services the airplanes now and ALPA has given them super relief through phantom aircraft pay rate bidding.

If I was Delta, I would call the AJC and say "problem fixed." We will fly our passengers on our airplanes.

 

[SkyNation]

skywest is opening a FA only domicile in CVG (I heard)

 

[Tomct]

skywest is opening a FA only domicile in CVG (I heard)

And we care WHY.....

 

[flyboyzz1]

thanks speedtape...made it all clear

 

[Puck Mugger]

If you want to ask a direct question, then I will answer it. I will not engage RJMan, Bizjet, and Speedtape in their slanderous attacks. Go ahead and ask specific questions. They and others are lieing about the past so as to make us look bad.

I have a direct question. It has nothing to do with the past but right now.

In addition to your lack of participation and poor performance as the Sec/Treasurer I noticed you don't want to participate in current SPC functions.

When we conducted our strike simulation the other night you were flying.

When you were called at the hotel, you acknowledged that you had recieved notification in your v-file but chose not to call in as requested by the strike center. You acknowleged that the test was ongoing and that you were supposed to call when you got to the hotel.

When asked if you would participate and call in the morning prior to departing the hotel. You said that you would.

YOU DIDN"T. WHY???

Please tell me why you deliberately chose not to participate in this preparation on behalf of all the pilots at ASA?

 

[Richard Gozinya]

When asked if you would participate and call in the morning prior to departing the hotel. You said that you would.

YOU DIDN"T. WHY???

Please tell me why you deliberately chose not to participate in this preparation on behalf of all the pilots at ASA?

Not a direct enough question. Prepare to be ignored.

Dick

 

[JoeMerchant]

I have a direct question. It has nothing to do with the past but right now.

In addition to your lack of participation and poor performance as the Sec/Treasurer I noticed you don't want to participate in current SPC functions.

When we conducted our strike simulation the other night you were flying.

When you were called at the hotel, you acknowledged that you had recieved notification in your v-file but chose not to call in as requested by the strike center. You acknowleged that the test was ongoing and that you were supposed to call when you got to the hotel.

When asked if you would participate and call in the morning prior to departing the hotel. You said that you would.

YOU DIDN"T. WHY???

Please tell me why you deliberately chose not to participate in this preparation on behalf of all the pilots at ASA?

I will answer your question directly. Your not going to like the answer, but I will answer.

The simple reason is because it is a waste of time and the MEC is doing the pilot group a diservice by stringing them along under the belief that we will ever get a release based on what we are asking for compared to the industry standard.

In 1997, I voted to strike. I was ready to walk away forever. In '97-'98 I participated in most of the picketing events. In 2001 I picketed with the CMR pilots and believed that ALPA should have done more to prevent the CMR passengers from being rebooked on ASA, DAL, and ACA planes. It was a failure on the part of ALPA that we flew CMR airplanes with CMR passengers during the CMR strike. It wasn't struck work because of the definition of struck work, but it did undermine the strike effort.

All the strike preperations and informational picketing in the world won't do anything if you don't get a release and if ALPA continues to allow carriers to bid for flying within a brand.

 

[Speedtape]

Speedtape - you are so right - you nailed the issue with your post.

But if I can vent...If this thread is about the Delta Decision - why can't Delta decide to fly their airplanes their own dang selves and get away from this lowest bidder garbage? After all, DGS services the airplanes now and ALPA has given them super relief through phantom aircraft pay rate bidding.

If I was Delta, I would call the AJC and say "problem fixed." We will fly our passengers on our airplanes.

I am an ASA pilot. I believe that any airplane that has the painted Delta brand in any form, that fly Delta passengers, should be flown by Delta Pilots with Delta seniority.

If I was KING, it would be so!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe because the DAL MEC does not like hypocracy either - especially their own. After all, their destruction of our attempt at scope language to protect the flying they put out to bid is why we were there picketing to begin with. I was not out there either (although I should have been).... so I'm not inclined to throw stones at them for not picketing.

If you don't mind answering questions in a public forum, there are a couple of questions that I would appreciate some information on:

But I'm curious as to the opposition party's scope plan. Is it onelist, or something that provides equal protection? How about scope to secure growth? Can you publish the intended opener?

My other questions have to do with representation after the election. I know the platform is about the contract, but do they have an interest in the day to day grind after the contract?

Do the FO Reps have prior experience?

Thanks,
~~~^~~~

Thanks for the questions Fins. You and I agree on the root problem here and how we got into this mess. However you and I don't always agree on how we should proceed at the ASA level given the predicament we find ourselves in. That proves that the ASA negotiations and this election are separate from RJDC. Contrary to popular belief, you and I don't get our marching orders from Dan or the RJDC. The issues are inter-related, but separate.

As to your questions, I would be happy to try and answer them. I'm sure you can understand that it would be unwise to put specific scope proposals on a public forum, but rest assured that the ASA Coalition is putting job security at the top of the priority list. Without it, the rest of the issues are meaningless.

The candidates do have an interest in the day to day grind after the contract. The FO candidates don't have prior ALPA experience, but they do understand the situation we are currently in. In fact one of the FO candidates came from ACA and has prior experience in the pay to play portfolio game. He lost the first round and isn't interested in having it happen again.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I am an ASA pilot. I believe that any airplane that has the painted Delta brand in any form, that fly Delta passengers, should be flown by Delta Pilots with Delta seniority.

If I was KING, it would be so!

I agree, and that is what the ASA and CMR MECs tried to achieve in 2000 with the PID. It was a mistake to have allowed all this flying to be outsourced in the first place. Now we are competing against one another.

 

[Speedtape]

I will answer your question directly. Your not going to like the answer, but I will answer.

The simple reason is because it is a waste of time and the MEC is doing the pilot group a diservice by stringing them along under the belief that we will ever get a release based on what we are asking for compared to the industry standard.

In 1997, I voted to strike. I was ready to walk away forever. In '97-'98 I participated in most of the picketing events. In 2001 I picketed with the CMR pilots and believed that ALPA should have done more to prevent the CMR passengers from being rebooked on ASA, DAL, and ACA planes. It was a failure on the part of ALPA that we flew CMR airplanes with CMR passengers during the CMR strike. It wasn't struck work because of the definition of struck work, but it did undermine the strike effort.

All the strike preperations and informational picketing in the world won't do anything if you don't get a release and if ALPA continues to allow carriers to bid for flying within a brand.

In 1993, you sought nomination for LEC 112, Secretary/Treasuer. That required an action on your part. You won the election on name recognition alone (no one knew the other candidate) in a close election. By seeking nomination and then election, you committed yourself to the serve on behalf of all LEC 112 pilots. You had a duty to serve once elected, or to step down if you did not want the position. You did neither because you had another agenda! Since that time, your actions have been an embarrassment for all ASA pilots. You have and continue to use the title only for your own personal purposes, with no regard for the pilots that you represent. Your voice and opinions are lost due to your own actions. You are unfit to serve in this or any other position in this Union due ONLY to your actions!

There is a grass roots effort to recall you. I don't speak in favor of it because it would only make you a martyr. However, I am not sure others share my opinion!

 

[737 Pylt]

Speedtape - you are so right - you nailed the issue with your post.

But if I can vent...If this thread is about the Delta Decision - why can't Delta decide to fly their airplanes their own dang selves and get away from this lowest bidder garbage? After all, DGS services the airplanes now and ALPA has given them super relief through phantom aircraft pay rate bidding.

If I was Delta, I would call the AJC and say "problem fixed." We will fly our passengers on our airplanes.

Fins:
Its another way for DL management to keep labor on its knees. Continue to ask for more from them, knowing that pilots are fools, and will continue to work for lesser pay. The DL pilot group did it, along with US Air, United, American, just to name a few, and that's just legacy carriers. Look at what has happened over they years, your cohorts at CMR took concessions (ok a pay freeze) with the promise of new airplanes. DL management knows they will get the lowest bidder, blame that carrier on the problem, and, wala, the beatings will continue!

737

 

[JoeMerchant]

In 1993, you sought nomination for LEC 112, Secretary/Treasuer. That required an action on your part. You won the election on name recognition alone (no one knew the other candidate) in a close election. By seeking nomination and then election, you committed yourself to the serve on behalf of all LEC 112 pilots. You had a duty to serve once elected, or to step down if you did not want the position. You did neither because you had another agenda! Since that time, your actions have been an embarrassment for all ASA pilots. You have and continue to use the title only for your own personal purposes, with no regard for the pilots that you represent. Your voice and opinions are lost due to your own actions. You are unfit to serve in this or any other position in this Union due ONLY to your actions!

There is a grass roots effort to recall you. I don't speak in favor of it because it would only make you a martyr. However, I am not sure others share my opinion!

The LEC sec/tres job is being eliminated by ALPA - did you notice that we aren't electing one in this election. There really isn't anything for them to do and thus the position has been eliminated.

That being said, I was fully prepared to participate in the process, however I was ignored from the beginning because of my support for RJDC. The MEC of the PID days is gone at both ASA and CMR. They have become lapdogs for ALPA national and the DAL MEC. The last meeting I went to, I expressed my belief that we would not be released by the NMB. As supporting evidence, I referred to the letter the XJT MEC sent to their pilots with their TA stating that they did not believe they would receive a release from the NMB. I also stated personal experience with a Democratic NMB in 1998 and the fact that we were parked then with a more favorable NMB. I was labeled a "doomsayer".

The next two LEC meeting were scheduled while I was flying and LEC members are not allowed to take ALPA leave for LEC meetings. I am not going to fight to be included. If the MEC wants to ignore me, so be it. It wasn't me however that chose this. The MEC is pandoring to an ALPA national agenda and I refuse to participate in it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Fins:
Its another way for DL management to keep labor on its knees. Continue to ask for more from them, knowing that pilots are fools, and will continue to work for lesser pay. The DL pilot group did it, along with US Air, United, American, just to name a few, and that's just legacy carriers. Look at what has happened over they years, your cohorts at CMR took concessions (ok a pay freeze) with the promise of new airplanes. DL management knows they will get the lowest bidder, blame that carrier on the problem, and, wala, the beatings will continue!

737

I agree with you believe it or not. This is the problem you face when you can't transport your experience across company lines. Any other profession, and you could leave and not have to start over at the bottom. This is the only profession that if you leave your present employer, you have to start all over at the bottom. Unless we change that, expect more of the same.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Speedtape:
When DL starts hiring (most likely in the spring), you can bet your a$$ the DL group will welcome any ASA pilots to the list with open arms. But I can guarentee you, if JB's name shows up on any list, he won't be invited to the party!

737

Don't worry, I won't be applying. I don't want the paycut for the next 10 years....

 

[Puck Mugger]

Don't worry, I won't be applying. I don't want the paycut for the next 10 years....

But you want to take a paycut to keep your lousy RJ job for one of the worst airlines in the country???

Interesting career strategy.

 

[JoeMerchant]

But you want to take a paycut to keep your lousy RJ job for one of the worst airlines in the country???

Interesting career strategy.

When did I say that "I want to take a paycut to keep my lousy RJ job for one of the worst airlines in the country"? I never said that Puck.

1. The last offer from management wasn't a paycut. It wasn't much of a raise either, but it wasn't a paycut.

2. The ASA Coalition is promising a net gain contract, in other words a contract worth more than the current one.

3. If this was a "lousy job" as you say, then I would leave.

4. There are far worse RJ operators. I would rather be here than at Mesa, TSA, Eagle, Mesaba, or Pinnacle.

5. I honestly believe that Skywest is the best managed regional airline in the business and we are lucky to have been bought by Skywest. I wouldn't trade places with our CMR friends for anything - they have it far worse than we do.

 

[twott driver]

"2. The ASA Coalition is promising a net gain contract, in other words a contract worth more than the current one. "

Be careful you don't aim too high there, buggers. I could go and rape the Wendy's on C working agreement, and probably still come out ahead of what we've got!

 

[JoeMerchant]

"2. The ASA Coalition is promising a net gain contract, in other words a contract worth more than the current one. "

Be careful you don't aim too high there, buggers. I could go and rape the Wendy's on C working agreement, and probably still come out ahead of what we've got!

What if I told you that our current contract is better than the NWA Compass contract that was just agreed to by the NWA MEC? I understand your frustration, but we are being squeezed by mainline concessionary bargaining and other regionals that are competing with us.......

 

[Tomct]

What if I told you that our current contract is better than the NWA Compass contract that was just agreed to by the NWA MEC? I understand your frustration, but we are being squeezed by mainline concessionary bargaining and other regionals that are competing with us.......

Yeah, well those other carriers don't OWN ATL!! We are not in BK, the others are....big difference!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yeah, well those other carriers don't OWN ATL!! We are not in BK, the others are....big difference!

1. You still have to compete with carriers that are in BK.

2. We don't "own ATL". Delta owns ATL and can shift the flying. Skywest can also shift flying.

 

[FDJ2]

Don't worry, I won't be applying. I don't want the paycut for the next 10 years....

you can't PFT to get on at DAL.

 

[737 Pylt]

Don't worry, I won't be applying. I don't want the paycut for the next 10 years....

10 year ASA ATR 72 cpt. = $71.00/hr
10 year DL MD88 f/o = $92.00/hr
10 year DL 737-800 f/o = $100.00/hr

You're right, after 10 years, according to rjdc math, it's one heck of a pay cut!
Its going to be one long career (if ASA survives) for you johnny boy! Keep doing those 6-8 leg days in and out of ATL. Keep telling yourself you don't want to move on.
What are you going to do when ASA goes TU? Don't expect to get hired at any union carrier the way you've carried on! You've made quite a name for yourself, you and your pal danno! Congrats!

737

 

[Bizjet]

The LEC sec/tres job is being eliminated by ALPA - did you notice that we aren't electing one in this election. There really isn't anything for them to do and thus the position has been eliminated.

That being said, I was fully prepared to participate in the process, however I was ignored from the beginning because of my support for RJDC. The MEC of the PID days is gone at both ASA and CMR. They have become lapdogs for ALPA national and the DAL MEC. The last meeting I went to, I expressed my belief that we would not be released by the NMB. As supporting evidence, I referred to the letter the XJT MEC sent to their pilots with their TA stating that they did not believe they would receive a release from the NMB. I also stated personal experience with a Democratic NMB in 1998 and the fact that we were parked then with a more favorable NMB. I was labeled a "doomsayer".

The next two LEC meeting were scheduled while I was flying and LEC members are not allowed to take ALPA leave for LEC meetings. I am not going to fight to be included. If the MEC wants to ignore me, so be it. It wasn't me however that chose this. The MEC is pandoring to an ALPA national agenda and I refuse to participate in it.

You were elected to take the minutes not give Little Joey's personal view of the future based on your limited experience doing Union work. Since you couldn't run the show you just refuse to do the job--how adult!

You and the older girlfriend must have been introduced through E-Disharmony because you both are great at creating dissension. Sorry I forgot you two met on the show CHEATERS!

 

[Speedtape]

When did I say that "I want to take a paycut to keep my lousy RJ job for one of the worst airlines in the country"? I never said that Puck.

1. The last offer from management wasn't a paycut. It wasn't much of a raise either, but it wasn't a paycut.

Then it must have been a net gain, according to your statement!

2. The ASA Coalition is promising a net gain contract, in other words a contract worth more than the current one.

The present table position is already a net gain! Read your point number 1. and you can't take the credit for it! So how does promising something already achieved make your Coalition attractive! It was clear that you wrote the Coalition Manifesto! In addition, most of the things that you claimed that your RJDC Coalition would achieve, have already been T.A'D. You are part of the Jackson 5, aren't you?

3. If this was a "lousy job" as you say, then I would leave.

What would it take? If you think this job is better than Delta, then you need some serious help!!!!

4. There are far worse RJ operators. I would rather be here than at Mesa, TSA, Eagle, Mesaba, or Pinnacle.

OOPS! I agree with you on this one!

5. I honestly believe that Skywest is the best managed regional airline in the business and we are lucky to have been bought by Skywest. I wouldn't trade places with our CMR friends for anything - they have it far worse than we do.

Well, as far as being lucky that we were bought by Skywest, the jury is still out on that one! What happens at Comair, will have an impact on all properties!

 

[~~~^~~~]

10 year ASA ATR 72 cpt. = $71.00/hr
10 year DL MD88 f/o = $92.00/hr
10 year DL 737-800 f/o = $100.00/hr

You're right, after 10 years, according to rjdc math, it's one heck of a pay cut!

737

Second year First Officer, Fed Ex, $128, Second Year First Officer, Southwest $88, plus 10% profit sharing and 7.3% 401K match.

A 5 year DAL MD88, or 737, Captain does not make what a second year UPS or Fed Ex guy makes. Not entirely sure why anyone here wants to get into a "mine is bigger than yours" contest here. After all, FedEx, UPS and SouthWest are hiring. One difference between these carriers and most of the majors is in fact, "inclusive scope."

 

[ohplease!]

10 year ASA ATR 72 cpt. = $71.00/hr
10 year DL MD88 f/o = $92.00/hr
10 year DL 737-800 f/o = $100.00/hr

You're right, after 10 years, according to rjdc math, it's one heck of a pay cut!
Its going to be one long career (if ASA survives) for you johnny boy! Keep doing those 6-8 leg days in and out of ATL. Keep telling yourself you don't want to move on.
What are you going to do when ASA goes TU? Don't expect to get hired at any union carrier the way you've carried on! You've made quite a name for yourself, you and your pal danno! Congrats!

737

you very well may be the dumbest SOB I've EVER run across....wow! Do you even think before you write this stupid sh!t? My god!

 

[737 Pylt]

Second year First Officer, Fed Ex, $128, Second Year First Officer, Southwest $88, plus 10% profit sharing and 7.3% 401K match.

Fins:
Your comparison of DL vs Fed Ex is almost as dumb as breiling's comparison as ASA vs. DL. Its a no brainer....If I had a choice, I'd much rather be at Fed Ex or UPS. Boxes don't succumb to economic woes.

A 5 year DAL MD88, or 737, Captain does not make what a second year UPS or Fed Ex guy makes.

There hasn't been any 5 year cpt.'s at DL since 2001 (there aren't even any 5 yr f/o's. The most jr f/o is August 2001). For that matter, I don't think there are any 5 yr Fed Ex cpt.'s. I could be wrong though

Not entirely sure why anyone here wants to get into a "mine is bigger than yours" contest here. After all, FedEx, UPS and SouthWest are hiring. One difference between these carriers and most of the majors is in fact, "inclusive scope."

Fins:
I din't start it, your buddy breiling did. I merely pointed out to his blabbering that he'd rather be 10 yrs at ASA rather than 10 yrs at DL.
As far as legacy carriers go though, I'd have to say that DL did a lot better than the others as far as pay and work rules are concerned, but that's just my .02!
737

 

[737 Pylt]

you very well may be the dumbest SOB I've EVER run across....wow! Do you even think before you write this stupid sh!t? My god!

Thanks, but if I wanted any lip out of you, I'd scrape it off my zipper!

737