Encore VS 400XP

[172driver]

Which has a more comfortable (larger) cockpit? Other factors to consider in choosing between the two at NJA?

 

[RNObased]

It is a toss up as far as cockpit space, maybe the 400 by an inch or two. If it was my choice and knowing what I know about both planes I would take the Encore. The 400xp is a POS, that can't really do anything while the Encore is a decent jet.

 

[wanttofly]

Do you want to fly or sit at the FBO's. You will definitly fly more in the Encore than the 400, know people who upgraded over a year ago in the 400 and aren't off of high mins.

 

[172driver]

Well, as I was trying to decide, they cancelled the Encore class, so it's the 400XP in January for me. I'm just thrilled to have the job, in any airplane!

 

[FLYLOW22]

I'm just thrilled to have the job, in any airplane!

Welcome aboard.

Divorce those words from your vernacular ASAP. That and, "I'm just happy to be flying a jet." are equally destructive mindsets to your W2 earnings. You will enjoy the fact that you set your personal bar higher than that of recieving handouts on the street. You just scored a good job. You no longer need handouts and you will be compensated for your efforts.

I am sure that you are proud of accomplishments and background. You will, undoubtably, add to the collective talent of our pilot group.

Get through training. Learn your contract. Live your contract. Make money and enjoy your time off.

Welcome aboard dude.

 

[RNObased]

I'm just thrilled to have the job, in any airplane!

Christ!! Looks like NJA is getting exactly the people in the door they want for the next contract fight.

 

[172driver]

Come on guys, settle down a little bit. I've been waiting for over two weeks since the interview and I got the good news today. I have been at a dying regional airline for almost four years, being beat up and threatened routinely, with my job and compensation at risk, pay cuts, bankruptcy, on and off reserve, terrible schedule, etc. Please don't blame me for being excited to join your company.

If you knew me, and maybe you will soon, you would not utter those accusations, though I do understand where they came from. Believe me, I am not a SJS victim, nor a pushover. People who know me would laugh if they saw you characterizing me that way. Your contract is in no jeopardy here, ok? I come from a pilot group that knows how to fight, to enforce a contract, to be professional, and to lead an industry, and I'm aware that I'm joining the same at NJA.

Maybe I should have said, I'm happy to have the job regardless of the aircraft I was assigned. While the 400XP would not have been my first choice, I will fly it and serve the owners with professionalism, within the bounds of the contract. Is that any better?

 

[skiandsurf]

Welcome aboard.

You no longer need handouts and you will be compensated for your efforts.

Welcome aboard dude.

I wouldnt say that he won the lottery. It will be tough getting by until you upgrade, hopefully within 5 years. At that point you can pay off your debt from the previous 5 years, then in about 10 years you can start enjoying life.

Welcome aboard.

 

[johnsonrod]

Come on guys, settle down a little bit. I've been waiting for over two weeks since the interview and I got the good news today. I have been at a dying regional airline for almost four years, being beat up and threatened routinely, with my job and compensation at risk, pay cuts, bankruptcy, on and off reserve, terrible schedule, etc. Please don't blame me for being excited to join your company.

If you knew me, and maybe you will soon, you would not utter those accusations, though I do understand where they came from. Believe me, I am not a SJS victim, nor a pushover. People who know me would laugh if they saw you characterizing me that way. Your contract is in no jeopardy here, ok? I come from a pilot group that knows how to fight, to enforce a contract, to be professional, and to lead an industry, and I'm aware that I'm joining the same at NJA.

Maybe I should have said, I'm happy to have the job regardless of the aircraft I was assigned. While the 400XP would not have been my first choice, I will fly it and serve the owners with professionalism, within the bounds of the contract. Is that any better?

Congrats! A big change from your regional and from what I've heard you will enjoy it.

 

[fly26]

Congrats 172driver & welcome aboard!

As you'll find out soon, NJA has its' issues, just as every company does. But, overall it's a pretty good place to be......certainly beats ALL the regionals.

As far as what a/c to choose? Just take the first available class!

See ya next year.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I wouldnt say that he won the lottery. It will be tough getting by until you upgrade, hopefully within 5 years. At that point you can pay off your debt from the previous 5 years, then in about 10 years you can start enjoying life.

Welcome aboard.

Compared to any regional out there, he did win the lottery.

Compared to many majors... same.

10 years to enjoy? I dunno about that either but whatever.

 

[172driver]

Thanks for the welcomes, but back to the original topic. Anything to say about the 400XP? Looks like the FMS is similar to what I'm used to. Do the NJA planes have three or four tubes? I know about the flameouts, spoilerons, internal lav. Is it a growing or shrinking fleet? Works hard? Training concerns? Areas it flies more than others? Anything you want to throw in there would be helpful.

 

[johnsonrod]

Thanks for the welcomes, but back to the original topic. Anything to say about the 400XP? Looks like the FMS is similar to what I'm used to. Do the NJA planes have three or four tubes? I know about the flameouts, spoilerons, internal lav. Is it a growing or shrinking fleet? Works hard? Training concerns? Areas it flies more than others? Anything you want to throw in there would be helpful.

Doubt you will be exhausted every day like the Citation X or Excel drivers. The Beechjet does not seem to fly more than 2-3 sectors per day on average. You can chill out while the Citation X and Excel drivers get beat up on the road...

 

[RNObased]

Is it a growing or shrinking fleet? Works hard? Training concerns? Areas it flies more than others? Anything you want to throw in there would be helpful.

Fleet is growing, why is anyones guess. Works hard, the answer is no. The plane is the king of the FBO, not the sky. When it flies, it tends to stay in the same area it was picked up in; ie East coast, west coast, service center.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I guess the BeechJunk is going to be the true replacement for the VII's...in every aspect. Service Center to Service Center

 

[Guitar Guy]

Some other issues with the 400XP are performance and the lack of single-point refueling, along with the recent dual-engine flameouts. Contaminated runways and the use of the plane's anti-ice systems tend to limit when/where the 400XP can fly. The lack of single-point refueling means that the 400XP can't do a quick turn on a refueling stop. And you can do some research around the internet on the flameout issue and what the new in-flight procedures are.

Regardless, welcome to NetJets!

 

[400A]

I am not a net jets guy, but I love the Beechjet. If you have been in the CRJ, the FMS is very similar. At least that is what my buddies that fly the CRJ said when the saw mine. I have not flown the Encore but I have flown the Ultra and I far better like the 400A. The aircraft is built like a tank. We are on our 3rd one now and we have had no dispatch problems. Passengers like the cabin. Also ride far better in turbulence. The ultra rides horrible in turbulence.

If the Beechjet is so horrible, why are there so many in fractional service?

 

[On Your Six]

I am not a net jets guy, but I love the Beechjet. If you have been in the CRJ, the FMS is very similar. At least that is what my buddies that fly the CRJ said when the saw mine. I have not flown the Encore but I have flown the Ultra and I far better like the 400A. The aircraft is built like a tank. We are on our 3rd one now and we have had no dispatch problems. Passengers like the cabin. Also ride far better in turbulence. The ultra rides horrible in turbulence.

If the Beechjet is so horrible, why are there so many in fractional service?[/quote]

Good financial deals when ordering helps. For NJA, it was lined up to fly the CJ3 (far better than the 400A) but Santulli jerked the big order when Citationshares announced it would order the CJ3 as well. Big mistake - that CJ3 is a nice ride and it performs very well from what I have heard.

Still, I have heard some compliments from 400A crews. It will be a good introduction to the Netjets system and you will relax more than crews on the busier fleets - especially the Citation X crews who fly multiple transcons per tour...

 

[RNObased]

If the Beechjet is so horrible, why are there so many in fractional service?

Because it is cheap. That is why. You will like the Beechjunk until you get to fly a real biz jet, and then you will realize what you have been missing all those years.

 

[Guitar Guy]

If the Beechjet is so horrible, why are there so many in fractional service?

Flight Options has them because the 400A/XP/whatever is a Raytheon product, as is Flight Options.

NetJets has 400XP's because our CEO had a beef with Cessna and Raytheon offered the 400XP at rock-bottom prices. Sadly, we are now suffering the famous "you get what you pay for" syndrome.

400A, when I got hired at NetJets, I called a buddy of mine to give him the news. This friend of mine is typed on the 400 and the CE-500 (which includes the Ultra and Encore) and instructed on both at SimuFlite. When he asked me what fleet I got and I told him the Ultra, his reponse was that I was very lucky to have not gotten the 400XP because of how poor a plane it is in his estimation. And by the way, he currently flies a 400XP for a company in Texas and his opinion of the plane has not changed.

If you like the 400A, then good for you. But it simply doesn't measure up to the Encore or even the Ultra for our operations at NetJets.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Thanks for the welcomes, but back to the original topic. Anything to say about the 400XP? Looks like the FMS is similar to what I'm used to. Do the NJA planes have three or four tubes? I know about the flameouts, spoilerons, internal lav. Is it a growing or shrinking fleet? Works hard? Training concerns? Areas it flies more than others? Anything you want to throw in there would be helpful.

In the most recent communique from Raytheon, you cant get your type in the 400 until you have successfully completed and passed a glider rating. This is a mandatory requirement now that is needed to even enroll in FSI for the 400.

 

[CA1900]

Zing!

:laugh:

 

[400A]

Because it is cheap. That is why. You will like the Beechjunk until you get to fly a real biz jet, and then you will realize what you have been missing all those years.

Yep it could not be the fact that it actually has a comfortable cabin (unlike the Encore) Even with the seat side tracked my head is on the ceiling. yeah, thats comfortable.

As far as a real biz jet, At least it could certify part 25 (Transport Category) unlike the mighty straight wing bud light can with jet engines on it. Snap crackle pop, all the way to altitude. Not to mention the mickey mouse windshield anti ice and the washboard ride, and constant vectors because it cant keep up with the real jets.

Oh yeah, do your t/r's just right or your nose gear may fold up. (See another thread about thrust reverser use)

 

[Guitar Guy]

As far as a real biz jet, At least it could certify part 25 (Transport Category) unlike the mighty straight wing bud light can with jet engines on it.

Interesting that you say that the Encore isn't certified to Part 25. My FSI training manual for the Encore says that the Encore is certified to CFR 14 Part 25. In fact, the Citation was first certified to Part 25 standards in 1972: http://cessna.com/story/milestones/1970s.chtml

 

[Choppy]

Excel is Part 25 also along with the 680 and the Ten!

 

[wanttofly]

Yep it could not be the fact that it actually has a comfortable cabin (unlike the Encore) Even with the seat side tracked my head is on the ceiling. yeah, thats comfortable.

As far as a real biz jet, At least it could certify part 25 (Transport Category) unlike the mighty straight wing bud light can with jet engines on it. Snap crackle pop, all the way to altitude. Not to mention the mickey mouse windshield anti ice and the washboard ride, and constant vectors because it cant keep up with the real jets.

Oh yeah, do your t/r's just right or your nose gear may fold up. (See another thread about thrust reverser use)

Must not have ever been in the Encore, they droped the seats lower in the tracks so that you have more head room than the Ultra. When I pick up a 400 trip (which is a lot) the customers usually say something to the effect of thankfully they didn't send another 400. I have been told that when they try to put a Encore/Ultra pax on the 400 is usually met with a statement of I willn't go on that plane. If I was a pax and had to fly from LAX to SFO for a day trip with no bags, the 400 would be a perfect plane.

And oh yeah, your right I would much rather have a nose gear fold up then a dual engine failure. And by the way, it is very tricky, have the nose gear on the ground before deploying the tr's. That is very tricky and takes a lot of skill.

Congrats and welcome aboard, it is a great company and with a very few exceptions, a great bunch of pilots.

 

[FLYLOW22]

The only way the 400XP could be considered an "introduction" airplane is by "introducing" the owner to the 400XP and then upsaling the owner to something larger following several dissapointing experiences on the Little Hawk (400XP).

 

[ozpilot]

The problem with the 400XP is that we expect too much from it. If you think of it as a King Air with jets it never fails to deliver.

 

[b350capt]

and whatever you do, don't blabbing about you being a hawker pilot....lol! that went over like a ton of bricks at options when the name changed.. anyways, good luck!

 

[Smellycat]

Company man?

Welcome aboard.

Divorce those words from your vernacular ASAP. That and, "I'm just happy to be flying a jet." are equally destructive mindsets to your W2 earnings. You
Welcome aboard dude.

Dont you know 172, loving your job and wanting to do right for a company you love are verboten in a union shop. You are supposed to be misrable! Do not even think about drinking coolaid, and learn how to complain with passion for goodness sakes! Do not be motivated, energetic, or company-minded.

All you need is your contract. Repeat these words while staring at your 1108 lanyard in the mirror. All you need is your union contract. You must not be a company man. All you need is netjetwife whispering in your ear in your dreams! Keep repeating 1108 1108 1108.

Oh, and wipe that smile off your face! Happiness is not permitted.