AA 757's...could it be??

[aa73]

The stab actually came off? I guess I was under the impression that it was just "flapping" back there with no control over it after the jackscrew disconnected (or whatever the deal was back there).

Either way - a mechanical failure that has nothing to do with a lack of systems knowledge (like Fifi's accident in France).

Correct, the stab actually stayed attached when the jackscrew broke, and at that point the whole stab just slammed around wherever the relative wind put it.

 

[V2+10]

You sir are a complete retard or completely ignorant of that incident. I don't think anyone can fly any aircraft sans the horz stab. An MD80 minus the tail vs. an airbi in an incorrect flight mode has no comparison. Please do not 'attempt' do defend your loved 320 by bringing up unsuitable accident profiles for debate, hoping you will impress and delude those here. Thanks.

No attempt to impress or dilute and I am quite aware of the facts surrounding this particular accident. Yes it was an MD83. Please do not take my post as disrespectful in any form for the heroic actions taken by that crew. They did everything they could and deserve our utmost respect for their efforts to fly that airplane under impossible circumstances.

The comparison arises in that both scenarios resulted in an accident that the pilot, for whatever reason, was unable to recover from. One was computer related, the other mechanical. Unfortunately however the outcome was the same. It only serves to reinforce that no airplane is perfect. Both have had their problems, no question. Hopefully we learn from the hard lessons and not let them repeat themselves.

 

[Fox-Tree]

One was computer related, the other mechanical.

Computer related only in that the pilot didn't know what the computer was programmed to do and expected it to do something else. Saying it's computer related makes it sound like there was a problem with the computer which there was not.

CFIT accidents are "ground related" but that ain't what causes them.

 

[AA717driver]

CFIT accidents are "ground related" but that ain't what causes them.

LMAO! TC

 

[DenverDude2002]

From a rampers perspective the 321 is a horrible ac to work on the ground with compared to the 757; the front bin is a good 20ft long and the rear bin with the aux fuel tank gives it less cargo space back there than a 319 with a ton more bags. I also heard from USAir pilots frequently that the plane is underpowered, needs better brakes a bigger wing and more powerful engines. I dont see how it could ever compete directly with the 757; maybe the 737-900ER but thats it.

As a frequent flyer on the DEN-DFW route,with AA 90% of the time, i always try to get the MD80 over the 737-800 or Airbus A320 series. I enjoy the 2-3 seating and like not having to climb through 2 people just to get to the isle, its also nice not to have a missing window towards the front of the economy section. Its also a lot quieter than either the 737/A320 and i can actually sleep during the flight. I cant tell a difference in flight time and i dont care if we're only at FL330.

I really wish the 717 had stayed in production, the best of both worlds.

 

[pipe]

Here's a news flash. Orbitz and Priceline don't have a button to rank-order your travel options based on brakes, cargo compartments, safety record, etc., etc.

There is only one variable that matters to anyone that doesn't work on the flight line (and that means 99.999999% of the population, to include mgt). Drumroll please ----- PRICE!

PIPE

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

I agree, but...

Sucks... I wish they'd just stick to an all Boeing fleet. I'll take a steam gauge "Boeing" Super 80 over a Eurotrash bus any day!

73

....it's just an 80, nothing super about it, but I love it! Next month will be 10 years on the DC9/MD80. I'll probably spend at least another 10.

Here's to rattling windows and setting off car alarms in a small town near you.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Mighty big words.....

Dude,
Try flying something designed in the last couple of decades and you may change your tune.

Cheers - from an AAdvantage member waiting anxiously for an AA fleet upgrade.

.....from a guy that has a DC-10 on his Avatar!!! That is the previous generation before the MD80. Where is your magenta line?! You better check your INS.

Not even an MD-11? Box-boy, please!!!

For the record, I have never met a plane I didn't like!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Hey......

OZ, TWA... doesn't matter, pilots from both those airlines taught me more about the 80 in one year than I learned over the course of 5. Great group of aviators!

73



P.S. AAflyer, I bet you call for "Climb thrust" instead of "Climb power", yeah?

...It's all about the EPR!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

You have great dishonor.....

I love the 80--Hit the IAS/MACH button, pull the throttles to idle and watch it try to do an outside loop! TC

....you bring great shame upon your house!

 

[AAflyer]

....you bring great shame upon your house!

Classic!! Hey Jeff, how are you doing? Hope we can catch up one of these times. Fly Safe.....


AAflyer

 

[Fox-Tree]

.....from a guy that has a DC-10 on his Avatar!!! That is the previous generation before the MD80. Where is your magenta line?! You better check your INS.

Not even an MD-11? Box-boy, please!!!

For the record, I have never met a plane I didn't like!

Nice vis-recce there ace. It's mo-definitely an MD-11 (I know they're small but the winglets are there). You sure those eyes are going to make it another 10 years?

You're only as much of a slave to the magic & automation as you let yourself become. The MD-11 is just as fun to fly with the magic off as the "Super" 80. I like having the option to do both, personally. I've met a bunch of guys like you at UAL and FX. They cling to the oldest, crappiest aircraft in the fleet like some kind of cult. "By gawd, I'm going to retire off the 727. I ain't gonna fly no glass cockpit, automated, new-fangled jet!" They claim some kind of luv for some antiquated POS because it has round dials or flys with pulleys, rods or wing-warping - whatever. What is usually boils down to is a fear of training, lack of confidence or a personal Q of life agenda that keeps them in their seat. To each his own. The only aircraft I ever came close to feeling so strongly about had a gun & missiles, flew like a dream and was undefeated in air combat. Airliners or freighters are just something to fly from A to B for a lot of $jack$.

To me, an IRS, magenta line and glass cockpit equate to mo' $$ and that's what I like. I'll be a "box-boy" laughing all the way to the bank.

Cheers.

 

[aa73]

What is usually boils down to is a fear of training, lack of confidence or a personal Q of life agenda that keeps them in their seat.

You forgot one important factor - a love of flying the aircraft itself. Since I got into this job because I love flying, it goes without saying that I wanna fly a fun aircraft. In my case, the 80 fits the bill just fine... and it's an old round-dial, which I like even better than all that glass crap. Finally, being the only aircraft out of ORD that consistently sets off the car alarms off the threshold of 22L... well, my chest has a few more hairs!

I never was lucky like you to fly cool military jets, so I have to settle for the "boring airliners." Still havin' a blast though!

regards, 73

 

[Fox-Tree]

You forgot one important factor - a love of flying the aircraft itself. Since I got into this job because I love flying, it goes without saying that I wanna fly a fun aircraft. In my case, the 80 fits the bill just fine... and it's an old round-dial, which I like even better than all that glass crap. Finally, being the only aircraft out of ORD that consistently sets off the car alarms off the threshold of 22L... well, my chest has a few more hairs!

I never was lucky like you to fly cool military jets, so I have to settle for the "boring airliners." Still havin' a blast though!

regards, 73

Hey, more power to you. If you like what you're doing, that's great. We'd all be miserable if we all wanted to do the same thing.

I will ask..... based on your profile, how is it that you know you like "old round-dials" more than all that "glass crap"? (sitting on the jumpseat of Le Bus doesn't count). I've done both and frankly, when you're hand flying, they seem pretty much the same. Based on the amount of "fun" as you can actually have in an airliner, I really don't see how one can be that much more "fun" than another.

It's good you're having fun - not everyone can say that these days.

Chest hairs and car alarms.... hmmmm - you're a little more easy to please than I am.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Just having a little fun with ya....

Nice vis-recce there ace. It's mo-definitely an MD-11 (I know they're small but the winglets are there). You sure those eyes are going to make it another 10 years?

I stand corrected (actually I sit corrected behind the computer). As far as the eyes go, they are still 20/20 uncorrected. The picture is small and I posted late night, about the time you are getting out of bed to go to work.

You're only as much of a slave to the magic & automation as you let yourself become. The MD-11 is just as fun to fly with the magic off as the "Super" 80. I like having the option to do both, personally.

"Little yellow buttom you're all mine, you're just another DC-9." Trust me, I am not an automation-slave. I look forward to a modern jet maybe in the future, but the MD80 looks to be in my future for some time to come. I just really like to fly it. The DC-9 was great, too. Money is nice, but I enjoy what I do most of all.

I've met a bunch of guys like you at UAL and FX. They cling to the oldest, crappiest aircraft in the fleet like some kind of cult. "By gawd, I'm going to retire off the 727. I ain't gonna fly no glass cockpit, automated, new-fangled jet!" They claim some kind of luv for some antiquated POS because it has round dials or flys with pulleys, rods or wing-warping - whatever. What is usually boils down to is a fear of training, lack of confidence or a personal Q of life agenda that keeps them in their seat. To each his own. The only aircraft I ever came close to feeling so strongly about had a gun & missiles, flew like a dream and was undefeated in air combat. Airliners or freighters are just something to fly from A to B for a lot of $jack$.

To me, an IRS, magenta line and glass cockpit equate to mo' $$ and that's what I like. I'll be a "box-boy" laughing all the way to the bank.

Boxes are fine. I have done that twice out of YIP. Rock on my purple brother!

Cheers.

PS: And thanks for the nice airline discount on shipping!:

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Still out of MCO...

Classic!! Hey Jeff, how are you doing? Hope we can catch up one of these times. Fly Safe.....


AAflyer

....we'll hoist a few next time.

 

[Clavin]

You forgot one important factor - a love of flying the aircraft itself. Since I got into this job because I love flying, it goes without saying that I wanna fly a fun aircraft. In my case, the 80 fits the bill just fine... and it's an old round-dial, which I like even better than all that glass crap. Finally, being the only aircraft out of ORD that consistently sets off the car alarms off the threshold of 22L... well, my chest has a few more hairs!

I never was lucky like you to fly cool military jets, so I have to settle for the "boring airliners." Still havin' a blast though!

regards, 73

I've had enough of round dials for my life. 3000 hrs in a 707 fulfills all requirements for that.

The S-80, which the compAAny so thoughtfully displaced me into is not a bad plane to fly. dang ugly cockpit, especially when its painted in its asylum green paint scheme, but its quiet and at least all of them now have the magenta line installed.

But I can't wait until my reinstatement back to the 757/767 occurs.

 

[Fox-Tree]

PS: And thanks for the nice airline discount on shipping!:

You're welcome. I ride/jumpseat on AA quite a bit - hope to see you back in their jets soon (assuming that's your plan).

BTW - I wasn't inferring YOU were a slave to automation. That seems to be a common attitude about guys in glass aircraft. You and aa73 have given me the impression you feel glass/modern aircraft might be less like flying than what you do now.(you know, type - type, VNAV, etc, etc). I was just making the point that folks in new fangled jets only encounter that to the extent THEY allow it to happen.

Cheers.

 

[Fox-Tree]

deleted. dang hotel internet!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

I like automation.....

You're welcome. I ride/jumpseat on AA quite a bit - hope to see you back in their jets soon (assuming that's your plan).

BTW - I wasn't inferring YOU were a slave to automation. That seems to be a common attitude about guys in glass aircraft. You and aa73 have given me the impression you feel glass/modern aircraft might be less like flying than what you do now.(you know, type - type, VNAV, etc, etc). I was just making the point that folks in new fangled jets only encounter that to the extent THEY allow it to happen.

Cheers.

.....but it's good to use the VORs and hand fly as well. I have flown with a lot of pilots that don't open a chart, dial in the VORs or set the ADF to the OM/NDB frequency. They totally depend on the FMS.


I still have yet to meet an airplane I don't like.


Behave yourself in Subic Bay!

Jeff